Rambus coming back?

[Ice9]

Originally posted by: DerKaiser

DerKaiser, i'm glad you did your due diligence on this one. You should read into it further, you'll be entertained at the very least, disgusted with the infringers and the memory fab industry at the very most.

Dude, you're too emotionally tied up with this thing. I couldn't really give a s**t one way or another.

Just because they have patents doesn't mean they acted ethically. And just because one judge says they infringed does not mean the matter is not debatable which was my original point. If you recall in the case of Rambus vs Infineon, the judge originally made a very narrow interpretation of the patent language. That was thrown out by an appeals court and the whole thing needed to be started over again. The same thing could happen here if Hynix decides to appeal.

To me it's pretty clear that Rambus amended their patents to cover as much of SDR and DDR RAM as they could regardless of whether or not they "invented" it.

You wouldn't know if I were "emotionally tied up" with this thing or not, unless text conveys some emotion i'm not aware of. I know plenty of people say they "hate" rambus. Maybe you're one of them. Hate is the most powerful emotion of all, and I sense it's not ME who's more emotional about it Don't mistake emphasis for emotion.

Anyway, they amended their PATENT CLAIMS, and had every right to do so. When patent law hits the federal circuit, it's all nitty gritty details. Judge Randall Rader is the first and foremost patent law authority in the country and taught the subject at numerous law schools. Google his name if you need more creds. If there's an authority to trust in all of this, it's his.

After all, it's HIS textbook ("Patent Law") that's used in 45 law schools across the country.

He sided with Rambus. People will try to discredit him. But those people are stupid. 'nuff said.

 

[DerKaiser]

I know plenty of people say they "hate" rambus. Maybe you're one of them.

Get a life.

 

[Snoop]

Rambus is an IP company built by lawyers. Nothing is more despicable. Winning one suit out of the literally 1000's they have filed means nothing.

 

[Terumo]

Wish this thread would be moved to a more appropriate forum, so it doesn't fall below the fold. It's fascinating reading (saw the Anandtech article earlier). I'll join in later (as there's a couple points Ice makes that contradict himself - like RDRAM is "over and done with" like that makes a better argument. It actually the better memory, and if persued and researched would've brought us faster memory speeds. The other side of the equation about proprietary ownership is a valid concern, but killing innovation for fear also hurts everyone too. In the end we have convention now: slower speeds, bottlenecks and memory that's slower than the pipeline. In the effort to kill a giant, the vacuum was filled by slower technology for an easier profit -- what happened with Amiga [and almost Apple] ).

 

[ribbon13]

Wars between companies are good. Let them steal each others technology, let them sue each other, let them have price wars.

You want to know the words that sums it up?

Innovation.

 

[Sunner]

I remember Ice9's threads about this "back then", very informative, and he always backed his arguments up very well.
Relatively few people could even begin to think that there might be more to the story than meets the eye though.

And if there's one thing I don't think anyone should be doubting, it's the price fixing by the DRAM manufacturers.
Micron, Infineon, and Hynix all sold SDRAM at a loss, nearly pushing them into bankruptcy.

 

[styrafoam]

Love them or hate them, RAMBUS THE COMPANY is here to stay.

wow



What are you trolling for investors or something? What broker told you to improve your portfolio by winning message board debates?

 

[ribbon13]

Amen.

Now when will AMD release an Opteron platform with DDR3?

DDR3 is where my money is for the future. DDR2 is just shit.

 

[Czar]

Jedec Guy #1 : Here we have the new memory specs, looks good doesnt it?
Jedec Guy #2 : Yeah it does, we should make this our standard
Jedec Guy #3 : I agree, this has much potential and according to our documents no one holds the patents behind the technology used so this is all an open road from here
Jedec Guy #4 : Ok It is settled then, SDRAM will be our standard, hurrey

Rambus Guy #1 to Rambus Guy #2 : *pssst* dont we hold the patents for some of this?
Rambus Guy #2 to Rambus Guy #1 : *ssshhhh* yes, but they dont need to know that, when the new standard will become the mainstream and nothing from other competitors can replace it we will jump in and demand money from everyone for using our technology!
Rambus Guy #1 to Rambus Guy #2 : aahh I see, I want a Ferrari

 

[ribbon13]

Ouch. Truth with teeth. =D

 

[sandorski]

Rambus may not be dead, but if you bought your stock when it was at $200-400, it may as well be dead. The Rambus Stock will never see those prices again.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Rambus may not be dead, but if you bought your stock when it was at $200-400, it may as well be dead. The Rambus Stock will never see those prices again.

Seems pretty likely that it never will, same as alot of the IT companies during the boom.

 

[Ice9]

Originally posted by: Snoop
Rambus is an IP company built by lawyers. Nothing is more despicable. Winning one suit out of the literally 1000's they have filed means nothing.

Rambus is a company founded by 2 electrical engineers. They are primarily engineers (170 of their 200 employees are engineers, NOT lawyers. In fact, the only legal staff they have is for the purposes of filing patents - for lawsuits they hire outside counsel).

 

[Ice9]

Originally posted by: Czar
Rambus Guy #1 to Rambus Guy #2 : *pssst* dont we hold the patents for some of this?
Rambus Guy #2 to Rambus Guy #1 : *ssshhhh* yes, but they dont need to know that, when the new standard will become the mainstream and nothing from other competitors can replace it we will jump in and demand money from everyone for using our technology!
Rambus Guy #1 to Rambus Guy #2 : aahh I see, I want a Ferrari

You're forgetting that JEDEC knew about Rambus technology under NDA back in 1989. They can't claim "they didn't know". They knew 100%.

They simply used JEDEC as a means to steal it.

 

[Ice9]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Rambus may not be dead, but if you bought your stock when it was at $200-400, it may as well be dead. The Rambus Stock will never see those prices again.

Really?

See, this is where things get interesting.

If a company is found to be WILLFULLY infringing (as these companies are), Rambus is entitled to "Treble Damages".

This means that whatever amount of damages they are entitled to, they are entitled to TRIPLE that amount.

Currently, these companies are on the hook for $800M on SDRAM alone (that doesn't take DDR and above into account).

So Rambus would essentially be entitled to $2.4 billion in back royalties on SDRAM alone. So what would that do to a company's stock price when they're already profitable? You do the math.

 

[Ice9]

Originally posted by: Terumo
Wish this thread would be moved to a more appropriate forum, so it doesn't fall below the fold. It's fascinating reading (saw the Anandtech article earlier). I'll join in later (as there's a couple points Ice makes that contradict himself - like RDRAM is "over and done with" like that makes a better argument. It actually the better memory, and if persued and researched would've brought us faster memory speeds. The other side of the equation about proprietary ownership is a valid concern, but killing innovation for fear also hurts everyone too. In the end we have convention now: slower speeds, bottlenecks and memory that's slower than the pipeline. In the effort to kill a giant, the vacuum was filled by slower technology for an easier profit -- what happened with Amiga [and almost Apple] ).

Well, RDRAM is in fact over and done with. Rambus isn't focusing on RDRAM anymore as it's been effectively killed by the collusion between memory manufacturers.

Yes, it is the better memory, but that won't bring it back. Rambus decided to leave that be, and move forward with XDR, RASER & Redwood.

And rambus is hardly a giant. They're a tiny company with a lot of bright ideas whose technology (RDRAM) was slaughtered by a media smear campaign.

 

[ribbon13]

Depends on who else they try to sue. Some of the larger Chinese companies have Triad ties and would have no problem killing a whole office of lawyers. Dead lawyers don't increase stock prices or investor confidence.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: ribbon13
Depends on who else they try to sue. Some of the larger Chinese companies have Triad ties and would have no problem killing a whole office of lawyers. Dead lawyers don't increase stock prices or investor confidence.

I'm nu businessman, but it seems to me that running around killing people would be a rather inefficient way of doing business since noone would wanna deal with you after a while.

Besides, non of the major DRAM manufacturers are Chinese.

 

[ribbon13]

If you live in Taiwan, I say you'd be of Chinese descent. so puh. And with as many people rambus has sued, how could you pinpoint who would have done such a thing? With billions of dollars at stake anything is possible. Look at Iraq.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: ribbon13
If you live in Taiwan, I say you'd be of Chinese descent. so puh. And with as many people rambus has sued, how could you pinpoint who would have done such a thing? With billions of dollars at stake anything is possible. Look at Iraq.

The major ones aren't Taiwanese either.
Samsung is Korean.
Infineon is German.
Micron is US.
Elpida is Japanese.
Hynix is Korean.

And while business can get pretty vicious, I've never heard of any companies whacking their competitors.

 

[Ice9]

Originally posted by: ribbon13
If you live in Taiwan, I say you'd be of Chinese descent. so puh. And with as many people rambus has sued, how could you pinpoint who would have done such a thing? With billions of dollars at stake anything is possible. Look at Iraq.

Rambus has sued primarily 3 companies: Micron, Infineon and Hynix.

More recently, they added Nanya and Inotera for GDDR2 and GDDR3.

 

[ribbon13]

If it does ever happen I think that's the way it should be... You never hear about it.

Just speculation, and a bit of humour. It's just money, why would anyone who isn't a mean materialistic bastard worry about it? If you post here I doubt you're starving or without shelter. But we do worry about it. That's why we own stock in companies such as Rambus.

 

[Ice9]

Originally posted by: ribbon13
If it does ever happen I think that's the way it should be... You never hear about it.

Just speculation, and a bit of humour. It's just money, why would anyone who isn't a mean materialistic bastard worry about it? If you post here I doubt you're starving or without shelter. But we do worry about it. That's why we own stock in companies such as Rambus.

No, You're right. I'm not starving. I'm a well-off network engineer with 12 years at Citigroup in NYC. My life revolves around technology. And I just hate it when a small, innovative company gets shafted.

I invest in Rambus because I believe that they have the better technology, and in the long run they will win all these court cases and make a crapload of money doing so. They deserve to win after what they've been put through.

But again, I know the WHOLE story. Most others don't, and assume that Rambus was wrong because XXXXX.com's website said so.

 

[ribbon13]

I have no problem with Rambus. In fact because of this thread, I'm going to buy stock too, and suggest my whole family do the same. Just because a company got known for a shitake product doesn't mean thier bad. I mean the Segway people also made that cool stair-able wheelchair. AMD started from the scraps off of intel's tables like a dog, and the K5 line wasn't the greatest, but now look. Every Line Starting from the K6 onward has been a thorn in Intel's side. Everyone whose in the know wants a K8 platform. I know I love my dual opteron.

I hope rambus comes out with some innovative stuff.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: ribbon13
I have no problem with Rambus. In fact because of this thread, I'm going to buy stock too, and suggest my whole family do the same. Just because a company got known for a shitake product doesn't mean thier bad. I mean the Segway people also made that cool stair-able wheelchair. AMD started from the scraps off of intel's tables like a dog, and the K5 line wasn't the greatest, but now look. Every Line Starting from the K6 onward has been a thorn in Intel's side. Everyone whose in the know wants a K8 platform. I know I love my dual opteron.

I hope rambus comes out with some innovative stuff.

Openminded people :Q

Begone!!! :Q