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Raised Fist Salute - "Black Power" or "Army Strong"?

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Smart/Cowardly/Lucky cadets as I fully believe their action was politically motivated and that the cadets themselves backed down and gave some other excuse that it was not political after being threatened with punitive actions.

Choose the adjective you believe fits best.
 
US military officials are investigating an image of 16 black female cadets in uniform with their fists raised, which some say is a political act associated with African-Americans' quest for fair treatment under the law in the United States.
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Military aren't allowed to get political with highly controversial and diverse subjects like the avocation of equality.
 
tweaker2 said:
Do me a favor and provide a link. I'll gladly take a look at it. 😉
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_bands

Not good for the arguement when it is on wikipedia.

I didn't exactly buy it, but there is like 100 videos of West Point cadets of all races and colors and genders giving the raised fist sign.

It's kinda like a blonde haired blue eyed german getting in trouble for having a room full of buddhist relics and some of which have some swastica designs. Like maybe he was trying to support nazi-ism but seems like a lot of effort. Probably just into buddhist stuff.
 
VtPC83 said:
Smart/Cowardly/Lucky cadets as I fully believe their action was politically motivated and that the cadets themselves backed down and gave some other excuse that it was not political after being threatened with punitive actions.

Choose the adjective you believe fits best.
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I agree. I think they did it on purpose for a particular reason. Then when caught, denied it. As someone else mentioned the sensitivity (warranted or not) of the subject helped them get away with it.
 
Interesting how well some of you folks seem to think you know these cadets. And how you figure you know more than the administration of West Point (you know, the folks who actually know and work with these cadets) as well. You are truly special snowflakes.

I suspect those young cadets could teach more than a few of you some lessons about hard work and honor. West Point isn't generally the easiest place to get in to.

But maybe they were just allowed in to fill a quota or two, amirite!
 
Im sure west point wants to kill this asap so are highly motivated in saying this was not political in any way. Then with the cadets all agreeing in saying it isnt political the deal is done. No harm, everyone goes their own way. If it was or wasnt political the cadets have already backed down.
 
glenn1 said:
It's not about offense at all, military people are subject to discipline for exercising their free speech rights while in uniform if it creates even the appearance of impropriety. Even the stupidest buck private in the Army knows that when you're in uniform and in public, you don't offer up unsolicited political statements or anything that can be interpreted as one if you don't want the Uniform Code of Military Justice hammer to be brought down upon you. This stuff ain't no joke either, as any veteran can tell you or you can just read about stories like this one.

That being said the punishment should reflect the relatively tame nature of what they did; a letter of reprimand is probably too harsh but is likely what they'll get as a verbal warning won't have the desired deterrent effect for others.
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Problem with that is "Army Strong" is also the raised fist. The only way one can conclude that these young women were necessarily making a proscribed political state (I am assuming here that "Army Strong" is not prohibited free speech) is to conclude that a black raised fist inherently has a different meaning from a white raised fist, making some animals just more equal than others. Unless there have been similar investigations of white cadets anyway.

A good rule of life behavior is that when an action has two plausible motivations and one of those is offensive, grow a pair and don't automatically get offended.
 
Werepossum, out of curiosity, can you provide me a link of a raised fist depicting 'Army Strong' explicitly? It's something I've never seen or heard of so I'm curious about it.
 
werepossum said:
Problem with that is "Army Strong" is also the raised fist. The only way one can conclude that these young women were necessarily making a proscribed political state (I am assuming here that "Army Strong" is not prohibited free speech) is to conclude that a black raised fist inherently has a different meaning from a white raised fist, making some animals just more equal than others. Unless there have been similar investigations of white cadets anyway.

A good rule of life behavior is that when an action has two plausible motivations and one of those is offensive, grow a pair and don't automatically get offended.
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Like I said in other posts, motivation and context matters. You can be pretty sure these cadets would have likewise been questioned had they made a gesture that might have "two plausible motivations" yet looked like it might be a Nazi salute or any kind of overtly political speech whatsoever. It's unfortunate when someone does something innocently yet it gets blown up into a scandal like this, but it wasn't some sort of witch hunt either.
 
VtPC83 said:
Werepossum, out of curiosity, can you provide me a link of a raised fist depicting 'Army Strong' explicitly? It's something I've never seen or heard of so I'm curious about it.
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See stlc8tr's vid.

The raised fist is pretty much a universal symbol of strength, power, and solidarity. When I was younger, a raised fist was exchanged between motorcyclists as a symbol of solidarity. Within my lifetime it's also been used by the Black Panthers, white supremacists, Marxists and conservative radicals. And most of all, it's a symbol of triumph over adversity or hardship. In my mind at least, making it through West Point's curriculum certainly qualifies.

glenn1 said:
Like I said in other posts, motivation and context matters. You can be pretty sure these cadets would have likewise been questioned had they made a gesture that might have "two plausible motivations" yet looked like it might be a Nazi salute or any kind of overtly political speech whatsoever. It's unfortunate when someone does something innocently yet it gets blown up into a scandal like this, but it wasn't some sort of witch hunt either.
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I'd argue that the Nazi salute is a LOT less universal than a raised fist.

stlc8tr said:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38218294&postcount=30
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Thanks.
 
werepossum said:
Problem with that is "Army Strong" is also the raised fist. The only way one can conclude that these young women were necessarily making a proscribed political state (I am assuming here that "Army Strong" is not prohibited free speech) is to conclude that a black raised fist inherently has a different meaning from a white raised fist, making some animals just more equal than others. Unless there have been similar investigations of white cadets anyway.



A good rule of life behavior is that when an action has two plausible motivations and one of those is offensive, grow a pair and don't automatically get offended.
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This is the world we live in. Words, phrases, and actions are, regardless of context or intent, only okay for some races to use.

There wouldn't be an investigation it white cadets using what could possibly be a politically motivated black power symbol. But, they wouldn't be an investigation into a group of black cadets calling another black cadet the n word either.

I'm generally not one to want everything to be PC, but when a group of military members could be construed as doing something possibly offensive, it should be looked into. They represent the military as a whole, regardless if they mean to or not, and represent our country to the outside world.

I certainly don't agree with these cadets receiving anything more than a reminder their actions reflect upon everyone though.
 
smackababy said:
This is the world we live in. Words, phrases, and actions are, regardless of context or intent, only okay for some races to use.

There wouldn't be an investigation it white cadets using what could possibly be a politically motivated black power symbol. But, they wouldn't be an investigation into a group of black cadets calling another black cadet the n word either.

I'm generally not one to want everything to be PC, but when a group of military members could be construed as doing something possibly offensive, it should be looked into. They represent the military as a whole, regardless if they mean to or not, and represent our country to the outside world.

I certainly don't agree with these cadets receiving anything more than a reminder their actions reflect upon everyone though.
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I agree that this is the world we live in. My point is that when you see someone do something that could be innocuous but might possibly be something political or offensive, don't get offended.

And when one sees someone doing something that is only offensive due to the color of her skin, it's time to take a very hard look at one's own ethics. The N word is a bit different because while it might not be offensive if used by blacks, it is offensive if used by any other race, not just whites. But I do take your point, and within the context of the above, I agree with it.
 
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