Raise minimum wage?

[JockoJohnson]

Bring the minimum wage up to a "livable wage"--whatever that is--and watch the middle class get brought down. Sounds like progressives want to get rid of the middle class.

Please, refute my stupid logic and educate me if you want but here it is:
If minimum wage gets brought up to a livable wage, prices of all goods will go up. (You don't honestly think employers will just say "F it, I don't mind giving up my profit for the minimum wage increase, do you?) So the money that the middle class has is worth less and so they get less for their pay. Now they can't afford as much. But the rich will keep getting richer.

 

[Craig234]

A lot of those working people would be making a livable wage if they made better choices.

Typical right-wing blame the victim miss the point.

Let's cut their wages in half and blame them!

Let's then cut them in half again and blame them for spending!

Let's then cut them in half again and blame them for spending!

Ultimately, this is a battle between the people wanting not to be in poverty, and the wealth for whom no labor is too cheap.

You can't get around the fact that either we get a more robust middle class and less concentration of wealth because the people win, or we get plutocracy.

Blaming people for not saving enough isn't the answer to the issue.

It's right-wing apologism to refuse to address the basic issue of wealth distribution while they pick policies that lead to poverty for the public.

 

[Matt1970]

There is something you just arn't getting.

Everyone is entitled to a living wage.

LOL, even if they don't work at all.

 

[Genx87]

Raising the minimum wage a few years ago clearly created a vibrant middle class.

 

[Matt1970]

It's right-wing apologism to refuse to address the basic issue of wealth distribution while they pick policies that lead to poverty for the public.

I missed the vote on this one. Can you tell me what Bill or Law got passed that causes someone to drop out of high school and work for minimum wage?

 

[xj0hnx]

Typical right-wing blame the victim miss the point.

Let's cut their wages in half and blame them!

Let's then cut them in half again and blame them for spending!

Let's then cut them in half again and blame them for spending!

Ultimately, this is a battle between the people wanting not to be in poverty, and the wealth for whom no labor is too cheap.

You can't get around the fact that either we get a more robust middle class and less concentration of wealth because the people win, or we get plutocracy.

Blaming people for not saving enough isn't the answer to the issue.

It's right-wing apologism to refuse to address the basic issue of wealth distribution while they pick policies that lead to poverty for the public.

You are an idiot. No one in the "middle class" works for minimum wage. I'm not saying to "cut" anyone's wages, but nice try, not. All forcing employers to pay a higher minimum wage is going to do is raise prices further, it isn't going to provide this magical "livable wage" you progressives whine about, because no one that makes a "livable wage" is making minimum wage, hell even most burger flippers make slightly more than minimum wage.

 

[Genx87]

Livable wage is so laughable only progressive can believe it exists.

 

[JimW1949]

Bring the minimum wage up to a "livable wage"--whatever that is--and watch the middle class get brought down. Sounds like progressives want to get rid of the middle class.

Please, refute my stupid logic and educate me if you want but here it is:
If minimum wage gets brought up to a livable wage, prices of all goods will go up. (You don't honestly think employers will just say "F it, I don't mind giving up my profit for the minimum wage increase, do you?) So the money that the middle class has is worth less and so they get less for their pay. Now they can't afford as much. But the rich will keep getting richer.

Simple, just get your head your head out of the sand read what is going on in the world around you.

http://livingwageuk.wordpress.com/why-a-living-wage/

 

[PokerGuy]

lol you "progressives" are so disconnected from reality it's funny to see.... except that you then try to impose your delusions on the rest of us

 

[nick1985]

LOL, even if they don't work at all.

Glad to see you are starting to come around. :thumbsup:

 

[JimW1949]

lol you "progressives" are so disconnected from reality it's funny to see.... except that you then try to impose your delusions on the rest of us

Yeah, I guess you are right, it is pretty funny. The reality is that it is far more important for the CEO and other upper management to get their multi-million dollar bonuses than for the workers to get paid a livable wage. I don't know what I was thinking. We have to keep "those people" living in poverty. After all, "those people" don't know what to do with money anyway. They would just spend it, which would stimulate the economy, which would create more jobs, which would be better for business, which would mean more tax revenue............. But who cares about that? We need to insure that certain people get their multi-million dollar bonuses.

Yep, I get it now. Thank you for setting me straight.

 

[JD50]

Simple, just get your head your head out of the sand read what is going on in the world around you.

http://livingwageuk.wordpress.com/why-a-living-wage/

Hi Jim, still wondering why you haven't started a chain of restaurants that pays people a "living wage."

 

[JD50]

Yeah, I guess you are right, it is pretty funny. The reality is that it is far more important for the CEO and other upper management to get their multi-million dollar bonuses than for the workers to get paid a livable wage. I don't know what I was thinking. We have to keep "those people" living in poverty. After all, "those people" don't know what to do with money anyway. They would just spend it, which would stimulate the economy, which would create more jobs, which would be better for business, which would mean more tax revenue............. But who cares about that? We need to insure that certain people get their multi-million dollar bonuses.

Yep, I get it now. Thank you for setting me straight.

Oh ok, I see. It's the CEO's responsibility to pay someone that flips burgers a "living wage", it's not the burger flippers responsibility to get a real job.

 

[Genx87]

Yeah, I guess you are right, it is pretty funny. The reality is that it is far more important for the CEO and other upper management to get their multi-million dollar bonuses than for the workers to get paid a livable wage. I don't know what I was thinking. We have to keep "those people" living in poverty. After all, "those people" don't know what to do with money anyway. They would just spend it, which would stimulate the economy, which would create more jobs, which would be better for business, which would mean more tax revenue............. But who cares about that? We need to insure that certain people get their multi-million dollar bonuses.

Yep, I get it now. Thank you for setting me straight.

Why yes, that is what we are saying. Because CEO's of a local fast food joint are making millions of dollars.

 

[JimW1949]

Hi Jim, still wondering why you haven't started a chain of restaurants that pays people a "living wage."

Several reasons. First off, I am semi-retired and will be completely retired shortly. Second, I am a little old to be starting a business, and I am not in the best of health. Third, I have no desire to open up a restaurant, and if I were to start a business now, with the economy being what it is, it would certainly not be a restaurant. Fourth, the location where I live is not really conducive to starting another restaurant, so I would have to sell our home and move. In case you are not aware, the housing market is not exactly going great guns right now. There are other reasons as well, but they are more of a personal nature and I would just as soon not explain them to you.

 

[JockoJohnson]

Yeah, I guess you are right, it is pretty funny. The reality is that it is far more important for the CEO and other upper management to get their multi-million dollar bonuses than for the workers to get paid a livable wage. I don't know what I was thinking. We have to keep "those people" living in poverty. After all, "those people" don't know what to do with money anyway. They would just spend it, which would stimulate the economy, which would create more jobs, which would be better for business, which would mean more tax revenue............. But who cares about that? We need to insure that certain people get their multi-million dollar bonuses.

Yep, I get it now. Thank you for setting me straight.

Believe it or not, I would love it if there was some way to force a CEO's pay to not be a certain multiple higher than the avg. worker's salary within a company. I know, it is outlandish and the only way to probably do it is through government enforcement, but it would be nice. The avg. CEO salary has gone to 343 times that of the avg. worker's salary. That seems ridiculous to me. If I had to pick a number, maybe 50x or 100x (just pulling numbers out of my ass). Then the extra money could be used to either pay workers more or keep as cash reserves to grow the company more.

One way is to tax the shit out of their pay if it is over 100x the avg. salary of the company.

 

[Abwx]

During the 50s , a nice house was 10 000 USD,
to be compared to 200 USD monthly incomes...

That was 50 monthly salaries to buy a home....
What is the ratio by theses days..??..

 

[Genx87]

Believe it or not, I would love it if there was some way to force a CEO's pay to not be a certain multiple higher than the avg. worker's salary within a company. I know, it is outlandish and the only way to probably do it is through government enforcement, but it would be nice. The avg. CEO salary has gone to 343 times that of the avg. worker's salary. That seems ridiculous to me. If I had to pick a number, maybe 50x or 100x (just pulling numbers out of my ass). Then the extra money could be used to either pay workers more or keep as cash reserves to grow the company more.

One way is to tax the shit out of their pay if it is over 100x the avg. salary of the company.

The govt imposed a regulation in the early 1990's that didnt allow companies to deduct the cost of the CEO pay on anything above 1 million dollars. The side effect of this was more stock and back dating deals. Which had the adverse effect of CEO's thinking short term to boost their earning potential. And when the stock market was crazy in the late 1990's so was the multiple at which executives were being paid compared to an avg worker.

I suspect if you were to do such a thing similar effects would take place.

 

[Matt1970]

Believe it or not, I would love it if there was some way to force a CEO's pay to not be a certain multiple higher than the avg. worker's salary within a company. I know, it is outlandish and the only way to probably do it is through government enforcement, but it would be nice. The avg. CEO salary has gone to 343 times that of the avg. worker's salary. That seems ridiculous to me. If I had to pick a number, maybe 50x or 100x (just pulling numbers out of my ass). Then the extra money could be used to either pay workers more or keep as cash reserves to grow the company more.

One way is to tax the shit out of their pay if it is over 100x the avg. salary of the company.

That's called Communism.

 

[JimW1949]

Why yes, that is what we are saying. Because CEO's of a local fast food joint are making millions of dollars.

Show where I said fast food CEO's were getting multi-million dollar bonuses.

The idea of everyone making a livable is what we were discussing, and I was making a general comment of upper management and workers. But you already knew that. Apparently the multi-million dollar bonuses is something you don't want to discuss, so what do you do? You try to skirt the issue.

As far as I am concerned, the attitudes expressed here by some of the members is the main reason why this country is so screwed up. Instead of raising the standard of living for everybody, the mentality here is that we should lower the standard of living of some so that the standard for others "seems" to be higher. Does that not seem to be more than a little ridiculous to you?

 

[Genx87]

During the 50s , a nice house was 10 000 USD,
to be compared to 200 USD monthly incomes...

That was 50 monthly salaries to buy a home....
What is the ratio by theses days..??..

Avg US income is ~45,000\12 = ~3750
Avg house price is ~150,000\3750 = ~40

 

[airdata]

With the US economy doing horrible and the value of the Dollar dropping, it would make sense to raise minimum wage if only to catch up w\ inflation.

 

[Atreus21]

Raise the price floor and you get additional shortage.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Yes, raise it. I'd say 'cue the right wing false myths' but they are already started.

So we should raise minimum wage to what? $20/hr? It's simple math. Raise wages, companies will raise prices. Companies don't exist to employ people, the employ people to exist, and make as much profit as they can for the investors that funded the company.
Don't like it, move to a communist nation.
If you have no skills and can only do the most basic of jobs, you need to make as little as possible. That's the motivation for getting off your ass and increasing your ability and know how so you can do better in life.

It's twits like you that want to drag everyone down to the lowest level. You don't understand how things like motivating an individual to do better is the correct way. Not reward them for being incompitent and force everyone else to pay for the incompitence.

 

[Genx87]

Show where I said fast food CEO's were making getting multi-million dollar bonuses.

The idea of everyone making a livable is what we were discussing, and I was making a general comment of upper management and workers. But you already knew that. Apparently the multi-million dollar bonuses is something you don't want to discuss, so what do you do? You try to skirt the issue.

We are talking food preparation are where these "livable" wage candidates reside. Why are you bringing up multi-million dollar CEO's? That is the point I tried to make. The people you need to be comparing these people to are the owners of the restaurant. Which I can tell you are not making millions of dollars a year. An individual owner is lucky to clear 70-80K\year.

As far as I am concerned, the attitudes expressed here by some of the members is the main reason why this country is so screwed up. Instead of raising the standard of living for everybody, the mentality here is that we should lower the standard of living of some so that the standard for others "seems" to be higher. Does that not seem to be more than a little ridiculous to you?

You cant legislate a standard of living. That is why it is laughable progressives believe so.
And I agree on your second part. Progressives wanting to lower the standard of living on the rich so the middle class seems higher is ridiculous.