"Radical Islamic Terrorism"

[Thebobo]

When I first glanced at this thread I thought I read Radical Islamic Tourism.

 

[xthetenth]

When I first glanced at this thread I thought I read Radical Islamic Tourism.

Sounds awesome. Are we talking skateboarding in Tehran or Saudi Princes Gone Wild: Miami?

 

[greatnoob]

Sounds awesome. Are we talking skateboarding in Tehran or Saudi Princes Gone Wild: Miami?

We're talking radical Muslims here

 

[Thebobo]

Better than many lol. You think that would be forbidden? Be interesting to see a list of recreational activities that are allowed if any.

 

[Jaskalas]

You're basically saying you think SO LITTLE of 'THEM' as you refer to Muslims, that everyone needs to treat them with kids gloves lest they 'radicalize' and start blowing people up!

Your nonsense is not only wrongheaded in practice...

Unless you plan to wipe out an entire religion, Islam will continue to be used as a vehicle to share both identity and ideas. Religion is in the eye of the beholder. It only retains the meaning that others ascribe to it. Which message should the human race hear? Whose voice should be louder? "Islam is terror" or "Islam is peace"?

As humans we shape the minds of others. We help determine the meaning of Islam, and whether we are part of the problem or part of the solution. Keeping people away from violence necessitates that we don't encourage it ourselves. Part of that effort is seeking out and empowering Muslims who can act as gate keepers over the Islamic identity. Who others look to and find inspiration for non violence.

Comparability with western values can be encouraged... but only if we help encourage it. Only if we embrace those willing to embrace us. Then they can carry with them the hope for a better future. If we teach a message that Muslims peacefully coexist with us... then those who join the Islamic identity will also do so in peace.

This has nothing to do with kid gloves, but to understand and manipulate human nature.
Tribalism is a !@#$ and we have to rise above it to not be murderers ourselves.

 

[Jaskalas]

..mindedness.

You're essentially saying something along the lines of "Treat black people nice... OR they will rob you!!"

Yeah but see, that's stupid. Because there's NOTHING in the world you could do to most black people to turn them into robbers or gang members or any other such dumb stereotype held only by racists and people who aren't very bright like yourself.

If we seized the children of south side Chicago and took them out of that hellscape environment... they would no longer be trapped in a culture of gang murderers. Violence in that place would precipitately drop year after year until you could no longer recognize it. Humans ARE a product of their environment and education.

Messaging affects us. Tribalism, violence, and vengeance affects us. We draw associations and collectively catch the diseases of human nature. These are cycles that can be broken but only if someone takes the first step to offer a lifting hand. Because underneath all the turmoil and bloodshed we are still human. Still capable of empathy and compassion. We just need to be given the opportunity to take a pause and find ourselves again under the rubbish of day-to-day fighting.

Islam is deeply poisoned, but if we keep firing shots then we will never be part of the long term solution.
For all the terrorists out there, many more are simply looking for a better future. The human race is salvageable.

 

[agent00f]

You read what I wrote, ignored it, quoted a fragment, and repeated your initial criticism of my argument. I try to have intelligent discussions with people like you but it's pointless. You're just going to keep mis-characterizing and over-simplifying what I wrote. Believe whatever you wish. You're not worthy of my time.

I'm curious what made you believe Zaap was ever capable of anything better; perhaps something he's previously written which showed some greater cognitive competence?

If we seized the children of south side Chicago and took them out of that hellscape environment... they would no longer be trapped in a culture of gang murderers. Violence in that place would precipitately drop year after year until you could no longer recognize it. Humans ARE a product of their environment and education.

Messaging affects us. Tribalism, violence, and vengeance affects us. We draw associations and collectively catch the diseases of human nature. These are cycles that can be broken but only if someone takes the first step to offer a lifting hand. Because underneath all the turmoil and bloodshed we are still human. Still capable of empathy and compassion. We just need to be given the opportunity to take a pause and find ourselves again under the rubbish of day-to-day fighting.

Islam is deeply poisoned, but if we keep firing shots then we will never be part of the long term solution.
For all the terrorists out there, many more are simply looking for a better future. The human race is salvageable.

You've often taken it upon yourself to affect a rehabilitation of sorts upon the mental degenerates among us. Now, it would seem very much in your mutual interests for Zaap & co to play along sometimes to leave the impression that this isn't an exercise in futility. Yet no matter what good you've tried to unilaterally attribute to them, they never allow you to save some face, which rather reinforce the accuracy of my categorization.

 

[woolfe9998]

I'm curious what made you believe Zaap was ever capable of anything better; perhaps something he's previously written which showed some greater cognitive competence?

Nope. I hoped he would surprise me. Unfortunately he did not.

 

[Jaskalas]

...they never allow you to save some face, which rather reinforce the accuracy of my categorization.

You focus solely on categorizing your "others". You want to MAGA in your own image.
Go ahead Agent Orange, call on us to use the word(s) deplorables.

 

[agent00f]

You never try nor want people to understand. You focus solely on categorizing your "others". You want to MAGA in your own image.

I've written at length in the past about why degenerates pretend to be too dumb to understand anything. The following is a example:

Listen, there's no rational way to believe these people are literally too goddamn stupid to figure out trump is a pathological liar. I mean, he routinely contradicts himself so there's no way around it. Liberals play along with the "stupid" image because it's empowering in a sense to lord it over "dummies/sheeple", and conservatives play along with it because it's better to have their intelligence questioned than integrity. If people think they're just dumb, they get treated like charity cases so as to receive all manner of simplified explanations they can pretend to never understand, whereas being treated like degenerates is game-ending.

I guess we'll see if you can understand this so that it might not apply to you.

 

[Jaskalas]

Right... it's Radical Islamic Terror Degenerates that is your choice of word for the "others". And your message is that we should hate them? Not only that but you truly feel they cannot be reasoned with or be appealed to by anything. So what does your final solution look like? Hating people only ends in violence, you're not going to hide from that.

 

[0roo0roo]

Thing about Trump is he doesn't understand politics at all. Most people don't understand politics. On a theoretical objective level, I do believe Islam itself is a problem, more than other religions. But on a pragmatic level, it costs nothing to pay lip service and doing otherwise just makes your job harder. So this demand that our government openly denigrate Islam is counter-productive and is about emotional satisfaction.

He understands it well, which is why his messaging was as it was, and still he hired this man, and met with the saudis. He acknowledged the problem the left dared not to because they were responsible for it. That he is being pragmatic now only goes to show, the left would criticize him either way. The stance of the left has been clear with things like the "muslim ban", you are not allowed to do anything about this issue because for them it cannot exist as a problem.

The left will allow their children to bleed for their lies.

 

[Grooveriding]

I for one am convinced by the whackjob on youtube with the helmet and corn cob pipe.

 

[agent00f]

Right... it's Radical Islamic Terror Degenerates that is your choice of word for the "others". And your message is that we should hate them? Not only that but you truly feel they cannot be reasoned with or be appealed to by anything. So what does your final solution look like? Hating people only ends in violence, you're not going to hide from that.

It's evident you'll forever pretend to never understand that conservatives acting conservative/degenerate is rather unlike muslims acting terrorist, illustrating the fact perfectly yourself.

 

[Atreus21]

We're told that democrats won't say "Islamic terrorism" because of political correctness. I guess McMaster is a paragon of PC, as was the Bush administration when it called Islam a "religion of peace." These brainiacs will never understand why it damages our security to behave like we're at war with an entire religion, and why it's important to separate the terrorists from the rest of them rather than conflating them. It has nothing to do with not wanting to offend snowflake Muslims. It has everything to do with not giving them reasons to radicalize because when they radicalize, they do things like what happened in Manchester yesterday.

The fact that they are so prone to radicalization is part of the problem. Does anyone shy from calling out abortion clinic bombings as Christian terrorism for fear of inciting more bombings?

Islam has a terrorism problem. Finding ways to call it something else isn't going to make us any friends.

 

[jackstar7]

The fact that they are so prone to radicalization is part of the problem. Does anyone shy from calling out abortion clinic bombings as Christian terrorism for fear of inciting more bombings?

Islam has a terrorism problem. Finding ways to call it something else isn't going to make us any friends.

Religion has a terrorism problem.

 

[Jaskalas]

It's evident you'll forever pretend to never understand that conservatives acting conservative/degenerate is rather unlike muslims acting terrorist, illustrating the fact perfectly yourself.

What I illustrate is that I no longer think like you. I stopped hating people for being different.

 

[agent00f]

The fact that they are so prone to radicalization is part of the problem. Does anyone shy from calling out abortion clinic bombings as Christian terrorism for fear of inciting more bombings?

Islam has a terrorism problem. Finding ways to call it something else isn't going to make us any friends.

Muslims are statistically much less prone to killing you & peers than vice versa. Personally I'm all for the methods of dealing with this problem that the most radical of your peers have proposed.

 

[agent00f]

What I illustrate is that I no longer think like you. I stopped hating people for being different.

I just deplore degeneracy, as the righteous should. As an example, I deplore people who'll continue to pretend they can't understand that because doing so makes them wrong.

 

[sandorski]

The rumours of Europe's death have been greatly exaggerated.

 

[xthetenth]

The fact that they are so prone to radicalization is part of the problem. Does anyone shy from calling out abortion clinic bombings as Christian terrorism for fear of inciting more bombings?

No, we shy away from calling it out as Christian or white terrorism for fear that the hysteria about a war on christians will excite them to even worse heights of prejudiced, awful legislation against human rights or very simply because we want to avoid the pain of introspection and we're part of that community. It is always because they individually are mentally imbalanced lone wolves, not because they are the most violent edge cases in a community that has fringes with problems with inciting violence.

What's the difference between a violent, borderline delusional member of a violent fringe of a racial and religious community? Dylan Roof was a disturbed individual and Muslims are prone to radicalization. Clearly.

What I illustrate is that I no longer think like you. I stopped hating people for being different.

The first step is not hating people for being different. The second step is realizing that other people hating people for being different is inexcusable and should be opposed. Not all differences are acceptable, it comes down to whether they cause harm. Most do not, but hating others does and should be opposed. However, that hate is not an inextricable part of their being and if they realize it and step back from it I'm prepared to welcome them.

 

[Mandres]

The fact that they are so prone to radicalization is part of the problem. Does anyone shy from calling out abortion clinic bombings as Christian terrorism for fear of inciting more bombings?

Islam has a terrorism problem. Finding ways to call it something else isn't going to make us any friends.

I've never once heard anyone use the term "Christian terrorism". That would be just as prejudicial and counter-productive as "Islamic terrorism".

 

[agent00f]

The first step is not hating people for being different. The second step is realizing that other people hating people for being different is inexcusable and should be opposed. Not all differences are acceptable, it comes down to whether they cause harm. Most do not, but hating others does and should be opposed. However, that hate is not an inextricable part of their being and if they realize it and step back from it I'm prepared to welcome them.

We had a thread asking whether intolerance should be tolerated; pretty obvious Jaskalas's stance on this.

 

[woolfe9998]

The fact that they are so prone to radicalization is part of the problem. Does anyone shy from calling out abortion clinic bombings as Christian terrorism for fear of inciting more bombings?

Islam has a terrorism problem. Finding ways to call it something else isn't going to make us any friends.

The expression "Islamic terrorism" in and of itself is a minor issue IMO. I would probably use a different term, like Islamist terrorism, which is more specific than Islamic terrorism, but I see no reason to make a fuss over either formulation. I'm more concerned about things like what Trump said during the campaign, like wanting to ban all Muslims, suggesting we should register Muslims, etc. I think those things are inflammatory, and the fact that we elected him after he said those things makes it more so.

Evidently, ISIS thinks that quoting him is a recruitment tool, and I think they've been more successful than any Jihadist group with recruitment, so they probably know what they're doing in that area. How many fence sitters are pushed over the edge by such rhetoric, I do not know. What I do know is that it's common sense: when you make people think you hate them, they're probably going to hate you back. And when you tell people their religion commands them to kill us, it's like painting a target on your back. Cause and effect.

How and in what way do you think it's a mistake to support those who interpret their religion in a peaceful way? Does it damage our security to not put all this down to being a core problem with Islamic scriptures? What course of action does this insight suggest? Can we eradicate every copy of the Koran? No. Can we modify its contents? No. Can we make them stop reading it? No. Can we make them stop being Muslims? No. So if we conclude that this is all down to Islamic scripture, where do we go from there?

I see no advantage from a counter-terrorism standpoint in framing the issue the way most people on the right want it framed. TBH, I don't think people on the right who want us to blame the Muslim religion are even thinking about counter-terrorism one bit. I think it just makes them feel good to hear people like Trump bashing Islam. I can't think of any other justification for it. If there is another one, please explain what it is.

 

[Atreus21]

Religion has a terrorism problem.

I suppose some are dead set on keeping their fingers in their ears.

Shrug.