Radiator/fan placement in ITX case for a newbie

[wpcoe]

While I'm no stranger to computer builds, I'm crossing a few frontiers with my next build: small ITX case and water cooling.

The build will be a Skylake, either i3-6320, i5-6500 or i5-6600, on a ASRock Fatal1ty Z170 Gaming-ITX/ac motherboard, probably without a discrete video card.

Here are the cases under consideration:
CoolerMaster Elite 110
Silverstone Sugo SG05-LITE
Silverstone Sugo SG13

I'm considering a basic closed-system cooler like:
Silverstone Tundra TD03-LITE, or
CoolerMaster Seidon 120V

The vendors' cooler web sites indicate that if you have space on the back plane of the case, you should be good to go. The case web sites say the front panels of the cases are radiator-ready. With the cases I'm considering, I guess back panel is out and front panel is in.

However, which orientation should the fan be? Do I want the fan blowing into the case, or out of the front? Is a push or a pull configuration better for the front?

As said, I'm new (i.e. pretty ignorant and totally inexperienced) with water cooling and with working with a small case, so please be gentle.

 

[aigomorla]

the radiator should be pulling in the coolest supply of air possible.
so unless you have like the perfect case which has awesome wire management and you can the delta temp difference from inside case to outside is less then a couple C, a radiator should always pull air from outside into the case.

 

[wpcoe]

the radiator should be pulling in the coolest supply of air possible.
so unless you have like the perfect case which has awesome wire management and you can the delta temp difference from inside case to outside is less then a couple C, a radiator should always pull air from outside into the case.

Should the fan should be behind the radiator to pull cool air from the outside through it? Or should the fan be in front of the radiator to push outside air through it? Or, does it not matter?

 

[aigomorla]

push vs pull has always been a big debate.

it was shown that push is slightly better then pull as you get more turbulance across fins, however that difference is very small.

i would honestly do it as per application basis...

Meaning if you have something up front which can block the fans or prevent then from spinning, ie.. a wire of some sort, then a pull config might be better, whereas, if the fans are touching the rear end of a gpu and has a possibility of getting stuck on the pci-e rail cable, a push might be a better config.

 

[wpcoe]

Thanks. Very helpful.

The build I'm planning (and will do soon, hopefully -- mobo is on order and should be here in 30 days) is using a rather tiny ITX case, and I was concerned a little about dumping heat in the case with no active exhaust. Apparently the cases are designed as "positive pressure" cases and the hot air is forced out the passive vents.

In the beginning there won't be a discrete GPU, and I hope the iGPU on the Skylake chip is actually adequate for my modest video needs. I'm hoping that not having a video card should help by not contributing heat and also by "unblocking" vents on the left side of the case. I'm annoyed by fan noise, but maybe I should put a slow moving fan on the left, too?

I'm new to such tiny cases and to water cooling, so am trying to mentally get the strategy right before I actually assemble the system.

What's your opinion of using the power supply inverted, i.e. the intake fan side exposed to the inside of the case, to help exhaust hot air from the case? Is the added heat stress on PSU internals significant?

 

[aigomorla]

again completely has to do with how well your cable management is, how hot the inside gets inside that case.

under most conditions it shouldnt get that bad, unless were talking about a really poor job with wire management.

so inverting a PSU shouldnt have any noticable impact.

 

[CFP]

I always found pull to be a little quieter, and IIRC if you have a shroud, pull ended up working better.

But since you're going ITX and have such limited space, just do whatever config fits the case best.

 

[wpcoe]

For my intended build, I hope the heat build-up won't excessive:

• no discrete GPU

• modular SFX power supply to give more room in the case and expose a bit more of the top-side case venting

• no overclock

If I splurge and get a 512GB M.2 Samsung 950 Pro SSD which is mounted on the underside of the mobo, that will eliminate the two current 250/240GB SSDs with their power and SATA cables, as well. Budget constraints might not make that happen soon, though.

Thanks for the info and advice. I feel more comfortable tackling the new build now.

Now, if the parts would only arrive...

 

[ClockHound]

No gpu, no overclock, no need for a noisy AIO.

A high quality pancake air cooler will be cheaper and quieter. Noc L12 or C14s or TR AX100, Cryorig C1, Be!Q DR TF3 would cool as well and be so much quieter than a 120mm AIO with high fpi aluminum rad that require high speed and noisy fans. The AIOs are 3-4 times noisier than a quality air cooler.

If the speed of the AIO is lowered to reasonable noise levels, the air coolers above will run several degrees cooler than the 120mm AIO.

Have a peek at the noise levels in this test at tweaktown

Not trying to give you an 'earful', but the AIOs will. ;-)

 

[wpcoe]

If I'm doing the math right, only the AXP100 would fit: The Coolermaster case has 76mm and the Silverstone case has 61mm height for a cooler. At 58mm tall the AXP100 allows 18mm clearance with the power supply in the Coolermaster and 3mm in the Silverstone case.

Even switching to an SFX PSU, the clearance with the power supply seems a bit close for my taste so I'm willing to try AIO. If the AIO ends up being horrendously raucous, I guess I'll just use the stock Intel cooler. From online reviews, apparently it fits.

 

[ClockHound]

Ok, if you want to spend the money on something noisy that will sit in the closet, that's your choice. ;-)

However, if the stock intel cooler is an option then the Cryorig C7 (47mm) and Noc MH-L9 (37mm) are better, quieter options.

The SG05 supports a max cooler height of 82mm - 58mm (AX100) = 24mm
With the L9 the gap is 45mm to the psu - in combo with the front 120mm intake, will have decent, quiet airflow.

With the CM 110 case, the psu pulls air from outside the case, so won't be competing with the cpu cooler for intake.

With the air coolers, the MB VRMs will receive cooling from the cooler, with the AIO they will depend on pre-heated air from rad.

Let us know how it turns out and what ends up in the closet.

 

[wpcoe]

Whoopsie, I had forgotten to update the Silverstone case model. Originally I was looking at the SG05, but later changed to the SG13. I updated the opening post with the new model. For some reason, the SG13 has a lower clearance for the CPU cooler than the SG05.

Good point about the VRMs and other mobo electronics being better cooled by a CPU cooler fan.

Someplace I had read on either the CM or the Silverstone site that they recommended AIO cooling over a CPU fan cooler. I need to find that and re-read why exactly they said that.

[edited to add:]
Found it:

Since I might need to add a video card later, I'll need to see if the ASRock mobo is laid out so that a CPU cooler with >92cm fan will fit.

More thought to be given to this!

 

[OlyAR15]

IMO a complete waste of money. You won't be overclocking the CPU, and with no video card, you only have one major heat source. I do believe the non-k cpu still come with a HSF. Coupled with a decent 120mm fan in the front of the case, that should be more than adequate to keep the system cool. Why not try that for now? If you find that it doesn't cool adequately, or if you add a video card, then you can start looking for alternate coolers.

 

[wpcoe]

I'm intrigued by the Noctua NH-L9i as it seems like a quiet but very small air cooler. So far, I haven't found an online source for one in Thailand, though.

 

[ClockHound]

Have you checked http://www.invadeit.co.th/

 

[wpcoe]

Yes, that's where I normally buy all my parts. Their office is just up the street and the owner is very easy to work with, so I will ask him if he can special-order the NH-L9i, since it's not on the web site.

At this point, I think what I'll do is order both a low-end AIO and the NH-L9i. Which ever one I don't use, I'll put in my current i3-3225 system. Still haven't decided what to do with it yet.

 

[ClockHound]

Cool.

Next, can I suggest some other case options? ;-)

 

[wpcoe]

No, thanks. You've done enough damage. LOL!

Already heard back from InvadeIT and they can't order the NH-L9i. The Thai distributor for Noctua won't provide anything other than what he has currently in his catalog.

 

[ClockHound]

Well...that's no fun! ;-)

Is the Cryorig C7 or AX100 available?

Or the Fractal Core 500 or Thermaltake Core V1? (No worries about cooler height) - Ooopsie, it just slipped out.