As I remember seeing in benchmarks, overclocking the Radeon (both memory and core) does not yield proportionate improvements in framerate results. Does anyone know why this is? What else on the card would be a bottleneck? I think the systems used were not the bottleneck. This is a puzzler to me, and rather pertinent to the SE, I would think.
Having recently purchased an LE, I am indeed impressed with the image quality (and also with the overall price/performance). But, what is the deal with relative lack of benefit from the higher clock speeds???
(Maybe does Hyper Z somehow limit out?)
Having recently purchased an LE, I am indeed impressed with the image quality (and also with the overall price/performance). But, what is the deal with relative lack of benefit from the higher clock speeds???
(Maybe does Hyper Z somehow limit out?)
Oh, hi DominoBoy. We all know you here, at Anandtech. You are the person who kept insulting BenSkywalker under different nicks (and kept getting banned). You are not even worth my time.
Trolls like you give this forum a bad name, and mods seem to agree
Leon
Trolls like you give this forum a bad name, and mods seem to agree
Leon
Wow this Leon guy is pretty messed up. It's been a long time since I saw somebody this sad. Anybody who reads the last part of this thread (including the mods) can see that it's Leon that is continuing to cause trouble, not anybody else.
Grow up Leon.
Grow up Leon.
Moving right along...So OK my sources tell me the card is definitely fake, so i guess we can end this thread, and all this mindless bickering that has ensued. Take care, be safe.
Leon I have never had an exchange with benskywalker and I have never been banned under any name. You are lying. The only people I have had a real problem with were Compellor, LSD, and Pidge. And I think Pidge is ok. Compellor has lied about me many times, and I'm starting to wonder if you are really Compellor? Either way, you are lying and you are trying to blame everybody for your own fvckups.
I will tell you this smart guy. Hue is not only my Borg brother
but he is my cousin. I live next door to him. The only reason I came into the thread is because he told me you were lying about him. In case you hadn't noticed, he quit posting but you have made 3 more trying to start trouble. You tell lie after lie.
Why don't you post the screenshots of him saying anything that was so terrible if it's true? Could it be because you are lying about that too?
Yep I thought so.
Why don't you respond to the numerous examples of your own bias that he brought up? Because you are lying about that too? Yep I thought so.
I just went and read the other thread. It was overwhelmingly against you, and most people were agreeing with Hue. It's obvious that you are holding a grudge against him now, and it's obvious that you are holding a gridge against the Radeon too.
Could you also explain how you having a ATI Xpert 128 makes anybody else look like a moron? hehehehe I think you got that mixed-up. That was a really dumb thing to say.
Step back and take a look at yourself. Look at your comments in the two threads in question. You have completely lost control buddy and you are trying to accuse everybody else of crap that doesn't have anything to do with the subject. You are calling names and making a mountain out of a molehill.
For real Leon, I think you need to take a break from the internet. Think about it ok?
I will tell you this smart guy. Hue is not only my Borg brother
but he is my cousin. I live next door to him. The only reason I came into the thread is because he told me you were lying about him. In case you hadn't noticed, he quit posting but you have made 3 more trying to start trouble. You tell lie after lie. Why don't you post the screenshots of him saying anything that was so terrible if it's true? Could it be because you are lying about that too?
Yep I thought so.
Why don't you respond to the numerous examples of your own bias that he brought up? Because you are lying about that too? Yep I thought so.
I just went and read the other thread. It was overwhelmingly against you, and most people were agreeing with Hue. It's obvious that you are holding a grudge against him now, and it's obvious that you are holding a gridge against the Radeon too.
Could you also explain how you having a ATI Xpert 128 makes anybody else look like a moron? hehehehe I think you got that mixed-up. That was a really dumb thing to say.
Step back and take a look at yourself. Look at your comments in the two threads in question. You have completely lost control buddy and you are trying to accuse everybody else of crap that doesn't have anything to do with the subject. You are calling names and making a mountain out of a molehill.
For real Leon, I think you need to take a break from the internet. Think about it ok?
I don't believe it is fake. It is an ATI card. There are additional components and the layout is different than the 64mb VIVO. Copyright dates mean nothing.
<< Wow this Leon guy is pretty messed up. It's been a long time since I saw somebody this sad. Anybody who reads the last part of this thread (including the mods) can see that it's Leon that is continuing to cause trouble, not anybody else. >>
Junior member, no profile enabled, just registered to flame me. Hi there, Domino Boy.
Most will sort it out quickly.
Leon
Gee Leon, I notice you didn't have your profile enabled either untill just this last post. Why would that be? And now you are accusing other people of being bad becasue they don't have theirs enabled.
Can you answer that question please?
BTW, please invite the mods here. They can read the thread for themselves and see who is continuing to try and start trouble. You just won't let it go will you?
Can you answer that question please?
BTW, please invite the mods here. They can read the thread for themselves and see who is continuing to try and start trouble. You just won't let it go will you?
DominoBoy wrote:
<< <<"Their review is biased, and full of errors.">> hehe, he says this whenever the Radeon gets a good review. You will see what I mean. >>
My poor, dilluted friend. The only reason I said this review is full of errors is because they used Unreal engine to test 3rd texture unit on Radeon.
Anyone with basic understand of 3d engines knows that Unreal engine is extremely unefficient when it comes to texture management (unless you have Voodoo/glide). It relies to much on cpu, and proprietary compression format (8bit palletized textures).
The is the WORST test you could possibly do for testing a new cards.
<< <<"Their review is biased, and full of errors.">> hehe, he says this whenever the Radeon gets a good review. You will see what I mean. >>
My poor, dilluted friend. The only reason I said this review is full of errors is because they used Unreal engine to test 3rd texture unit on Radeon.
Anyone with basic understand of 3d engines knows that Unreal engine is extremely unefficient when it comes to texture management (unless you have Voodoo/glide). It relies to much on cpu, and proprietary compression format (8bit palletized textures).
The is the WORST test you could possibly do for testing a new cards.
Oh, one more thing. Hue (aka DominoBoy/MrPOOF) wanted to see my response on SE (assuming it's real), so here is repost.
SE is too little too late. It's good competition for Ultra, that's about all. ATI is 6 months behind, and it shows.. They need to catch up with NVIDIA on 6 month cycle if they want survive. Otherwise, they will end up like 3dfx.
Harsh but true.
Leon
SE is too little too late. It's good competition for Ultra, that's about all. ATI is 6 months behind, and it shows.. They need to catch up with NVIDIA on 6 month cycle if they want survive. Otherwise, they will end up like 3dfx.
Harsh but true.
Leon
If ATI is really want to get into this market, it is reaaaaly toooo late.... But maybe they just want to increase their market in far east. Remember, LE is first intended to be released only in far east, not USA. Furthermore, all cheap LE's in USA is not an ATI brand but another Canadian company.
In another point of view: if these guys sells this thing around 250 bucks with a performance close to Ultra, it will be a great competitor even if it is too late.
Leon: Even NVidia couldn't keep their 6 month cycle this time. The time difference between GF2 and Gf3 is almost a year. And in my opinion, this is the right direction, because otherwise you do not give developers enough time to dig the capabilities of the card and can get the most out of it.
In another point of view: if these guys sells this thing around 250 bucks with a performance close to Ultra, it will be a great competitor even if it is too late.
Leon: Even NVidia couldn't keep their 6 month cycle this time. The time difference between GF2 and Gf3 is almost a year. And in my opinion, this is the right direction, because otherwise you do not give developers enough time to dig the capabilities of the card and can get the most out of it.
The card IS fake, i once again point out the Nvidia GF3 fan on the card, and it certainly does make a difference that the card is stamped 2000, since this card would certainly have to of been produces after that point. Why would they now produce an overclocked version, it is too late for that, (their next card is due out in a couple months). And that is certainly NOT a picture of their next card.
<< The card IS fake, i once again point out the Nvidia GF3 fan on the card, >>
Nvidia doenst make the fan. By your reasoning the Vivid Kyro is also a fake since it uses the same fan/sink unit that Creative labs did. There are only a handful of manufacturers that make such small integrated fan units, surely nVidia is not their only customer
<< and it certainly does make a difference that the card is stamped 2000, since this card would certainly have to of been produces after that point. >>
ATI is designing new hardware all the time. It could very well be a prototype board. The Retail shipping 64mb board is not the same layout as the prototype (the one displayed on the ATI webpage)
<< Why would they now produce an overclocked version, it is too late for that, (their next card is due out in a couple months). And that is certainly NOT a picture of their next card. >>
RadeonII isnt due out til summer, this may just be a refresh for them. Nothing is official of course til they announce it.
Leon:
"My poor, dilluted friend"
1) It's spelled "d-i-l-u-t-e-d"
2) The word you want to use in this sentence is "deluded"
3) Anyone ever try Nutella on cinnamin graham crackers? boy that stuff is good.
"It relies to much on cpu, and proprietary compression format (8bit palletized textures). "
IIRC, nvidia is the only one of the "big 3" that doesn't support 8-bit palletized textures. That's been pretty much open-season for several years know, although I could be wrong. I mean, the voodoo2 supported this, and it isn't licensed, so....
now then, back to the subject at hand....if it has WinME and Win2k performance close to the Ultra, I might consider buying it.
If it has the big discrepancy between ME and 2k that the Radeon does, I'll buy it, but only if it is significantly cheaper.
I'm thinking about picking up an Ultra, but after the poor 2d experiences I had with both my GTS cards, I'm just not sure I wanna go for it.
"My poor, dilluted friend"
1) It's spelled "d-i-l-u-t-e-d"
2) The word you want to use in this sentence is "deluded"
3) Anyone ever try Nutella on cinnamin graham crackers? boy that stuff is good.
"It relies to much on cpu, and proprietary compression format (8bit palletized textures). "
IIRC, nvidia is the only one of the "big 3" that doesn't support 8-bit palletized textures. That's been pretty much open-season for several years know, although I could be wrong. I mean, the voodoo2 supported this, and it isn't licensed, so....
now then, back to the subject at hand....if it has WinME and Win2k performance close to the Ultra, I might consider buying it.
If it has the big discrepancy between ME and 2k that the Radeon does, I'll buy it, but only if it is significantly cheaper.
I'm thinking about picking up an Ultra, but after the poor 2d experiences I had with both my GTS cards, I'm just not sure I wanna go for it.
As I have stated before, when you overclock past 190MHz, the Radeon card loses its momentum. It hardly makes any difference when you overclock it past 190MHz. That is why ATI chose to release the 64MB Radeon at 183MHz instead of 200MHz like they first announced. Now if ATI wants to replace the SE with the 64MB for the same price, then that would make sense but I don't expect ATI to actually release an SE at a higher price since overclocking their cards past 190MHz hardly makes any difference. Well, actually, I haven't tried their latest drivers so maybe with the newer drivers, it performs better when overclocked. But if it performs much like the first and second drivers when overclocked, then that is marketing bull crap only and they will get bashed for it from review sites which I don't think they want since they are doing a lot of good things lately. Anyways, all my money is on the card being a fake. I am waiting for an ATI Radeon 2 AIW before I give ATI another try though.
I wasnt pointing out the type of fan, but more the fact that it is green, which is Nvidias color. An ATI fan would be black, and i just cant see a company like ATI wanting to use the exact fan as a competitors card, in the same color and all, that just makes no sense. Listen, you can believe me or not, and with technology company politics being what it is, it is very hard to disclose sources, but i KNOW that that particular card in the picture is fake.
Robotech:
NVidia always "supported" 8 bit palletized textures in GeForce series. They also support older, 4 bit compression method as well. Unfortunately, it only works in OpenGL, DX7 support for it is broken (due to DX7 "limitations" according to Nvidia).
Vodoo series supported this since V2.
My point is that Unreal engine is very unefficient when it comes to managing textures. Sure, it uses Radeon friendly multipass rendering, but because the game is mostly cpu limited, it's a lousy test.
p.s. Thanks for correcting me on my grammar
NVidia always "supported" 8 bit palletized textures in GeForce series. They also support older, 4 bit compression method as well. Unfortunately, it only works in OpenGL, DX7 support for it is broken (due to DX7 "limitations" according to Nvidia).
Vodoo series supported this since V2.
My point is that Unreal engine is very unefficient when it comes to managing textures. Sure, it uses Radeon friendly multipass rendering, but because the game is mostly cpu limited, it's a lousy test.
p.s. Thanks for correcting me on my grammar
<< As I have stated before, when you overclock past 190MHz, the Radeon card loses its momentum. It hardly makes any difference when you overclock it past 190MHz. That is why ATI chose to release the 64MB Radeon at 183MHz instead of 200MHz like they first announced. Now if ATI wants to replace the SE with the 64MB for the same price, then that would make sense but I don't expect ATI to actually release an SE at a higher price since overclocking their cards past 190MHz hardly makes any difference. Well, actually, I haven't tried their latest drivers so maybe with the newer drivers, it performs better when overclocked. >>
Well I can tell you Pidge that going from 183 to 190 to 205 makes a LARGE difference on my Radeon. The previous overclock problems were due to Powerstrip not the Radeon.
DominoBoy:
<< The only people I have had a real problem with were Compellor, LSD, and Pidge. And I think Pidge is ok. Compellor has lied about me many times, and I'm starting to wonder if you are really Compellor? >>
Lied about you? Many times? Where? Show me a link. Without the link, you only make yourself look more like the stupid $hithead you already are. What? I said something bad about ATi's driver support 4 months ago and you're still hurt by it? Awwww, poor baby.
Question: Where does all this fit in? Isn't this a thread about the Radeon SE?
<< The only people I have had a real problem with were Compellor, LSD, and Pidge. And I think Pidge is ok. Compellor has lied about me many times, and I'm starting to wonder if you are really Compellor? >>
Lied about you? Many times? Where? Show me a link. Without the link, you only make yourself look more like the stupid $hithead you already are. What? I said something bad about ATi's driver support 4 months ago and you're still hurt by it? Awwww, poor baby.
Question: Where does all this fit in? Isn't this a thread about the Radeon SE?
<< Question: Where does all this fit in? Isn't this a thread about the Radeon SE? >>
He's right this has gotten grossly off topic and become rather grotesque. It's not hard to read between the lines and get the truth here so it's probably time to stop posting more armanment.
<< Well I can tell you Pidge that going from 183 to 190 to 205 makes a LARGE difference on my Radeon. The previous overclock problems were due to Powerstrip not the Radeon. >>
Oh. Well, like I said, it's been a while since I did tests and with much older drivers and like PS 2.74 (I think they are at 3.0 now) so you could be right.
<< He's right this has gotten grossly off topic and become rather grotesque. It's not hard to read between the lines and get the truth here so it's probably time to stop posting more armanment. >>
For once, I actually agree with you Taz. Scary thought
what program overclocks the radeon besides powerstrip??? Cuz i dont get a big difference in OGL between 166 and 195, but it is big in DX
hope the RadeonSE will come out soon....or else they will lose again
if the Radeon Se is coming out then what's happenning to Radeon2?
the DAMM ATI never catch up with the cycle
if the Radeon Se is coming out then what's happenning to Radeon2?
the DAMM ATI never catch up with the cycle
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