Radeon 9700 Or NV30?

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Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
21,939
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Didn't anandtech say they thought the R300 would change to a .13 later in the year/start of next year when ATi get there stuff going, ie: possibly do a revision of the r300 at the end of the year like with the 8500 cards. This could put them closer to nVidia especially if the nv30 comes out after ati have revamped the 300 (if they do)
 

deadcell

Member
Dec 28, 2001
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Is there a point to buying the Radeon9700 at launch? I always ask myself that with every generation of cards. The technology that takes advantage of it won't even be out for a long time. I know there are those who must have the absolute best as soon as possible, but as a gamer i still find it sort of unfullfilling. $400 for a 9700 at launch? I'd buy a ti4200 and a gamecube and be one happy little gamer. To me buying a new videocard is the same as buying a new console, because when it comes down to it, the only reason for a better card is to get your game on, and sometimes it seems like the people who get these new cards never seem to have any fun with them, they just stick em' in there and run 3dmark.
 

deadcell

Member
Dec 28, 2001
51
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BTW, don't mind me, i'm just a poor college kid envious of all you who will be able to afford a 9700 at launch ;). Gf3 ti200 4 life! I ain't biting till the 9700 is $250!
 

PeeluckyDuckee

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2001
4,464
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I don't see how your purchase decision can be complicated by the NV30, which won't be coming out anytime soon. The way I see it, 9700 will be your best bet for awhile, whether you buy it when it comes out or 2-3 months down the road when the price drops. It will most likely be the fastest card on the table for awhile. By the time the NV30 comes out, the price of the 9700 will have dropped to levels affordable to the masses and beat the NV30 price/performance wise. Sure the NV30 will be the faster card, but is it worth paying the big price difference to achieve the marginal gains?
 

bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
12,248
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I heard that BB gets the 9700 Pro for $311 and will sell em for $399... so that means the $350 online price is probable.

The 9700 Pro will be 325MHz not 335, and the ram is 310MHz not 320...

I don't know much about the 9500... but I wouldn't be surprised if it is clocked the same as the 8500... 275/275
 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
21,939
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The memory is DDR, so the Ti's 650 is actually 325, but doubleed because of DDR, so the Radeon will actually be 620 because it's ddr (double data rate, so double the memory speed)
 
Jun 18, 2000
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Originally posted by: GrimReefer
Why is my Geforce 4 ti memory clocked at 650 but the 9700s is only 310?
Your GF4 memory is actually clocked at 325mhz, not 650. Remember, DDR stands for double-data rate, meaning it sends information twice per clock signal, effectively doubling bandwith. Marketing departments use this tidbit and advertise the memory speed as 650 instead of 325mhz. The 9700 Pro will use 310mhz DDR-SDRAM ram, which equates to 620 mhz effective.
 

Orbius

Golden Member
Oct 13, 1999
1,037
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Theres more of a point buying the R9700 than there was buying the Ti4600 or before that the Gf3, the 9700 is the first card since the Gf2 thats actually a milestone in performance.

I think that the Nv30 could be between 0-15% faster, but with Doom 3 and UT 2003 coming out soon i'll be buying a Radeon 9700.
 

jbond04

Senior member
Oct 18, 2000
505
0
71
I think the NV30 has just finished taping out, if nVIDIA is on schedule (which they usually are, and seem to be).
 

WyteWatt

Banned
Jun 8, 2001
6,255
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I am not buying a new video card into i can see one do doom 3 and unreal 2 at 60 fps minimum frame rates at 1600x1200 with all details on high. AF and FSAA does not have to be on at all.

**BTW the N30 will be a whole lot faster than the R300. So soon even the R300 will be a mid range card.** I am not saying the R300 is not a fast video card because it is. I am sure it will last a very long time. Espically in doom3.
 

tazdevl

Golden Member
Mar 1, 2000
1,651
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Folks need to quit reading into specs and just use common sense. Whole lot faster... bah. GPU manufacturers have realized that framerates aren't going to get to much faster until the rest of the hardware takes a few steps forward. That's why they are refocusing on technologies that will improve the visual experience and IQ.

You will need one hell of a fast computer to be able to tell the difference between R300 and NV30... hardware you don't have, nor will you have for about 6-9 months. What that means is that it's unlikely you will see a huge difference between these cards in your current system, even if you have AGP 8X.

I think waiting for actual benches is a smart move before you make a purchase decision.

The other question is... since nVIDIA is moving to a completely new architecture, what kind of growing pains will consumers experience with their drivers? Will there be hardware issues with the new core that can be attributed to the .13m process? ATI will have a few months lead time in the market by the time the card comes out. Who cares what nVIDIA has done in the past with drivers, for iterative changes in essentially the same core.

 
Mar 8, 2001
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Wait and see, compare benchmarks and reviews, purchase latest AMD or Intel processors to feed your ATI or NV30 card, shake not stir, then enjoy. Both cards will probably give a pretty good visual treat over our current crop of cards and be faster than what we have now, I'm looking forward to the NV30 with their new programing language. Perhaps this will speed up development of engine technologies. I've already sent Santa-Wife my Christmas wishlist:

P4 3Ghz
Whole lot of PC1066 or DDR
8x AGP Motherboard & USB 2.0
NV30
Klipsch 5.1 with Klipsch External Dolby Digital / DTS Decoder

Exciting time for technology lovers!

Quad use for my new setup, a mini home theater, VHS home movie to DVD/VCD conversion, database crunching beast for work, and new platform to enjoy the new game technologies coming.
 

GrimReefer

Banned
Nov 11, 2000
555
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NV30 is going to be out by Christmas?

Is 1066 RDram faster then pc3500 DDR? How many Mhz is the 1066 rdram and how does that compare to the DDR?
 

HellPreacher

Junior Member
Aug 13, 2002
2
0
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I think this is just a dilemma for people who don't have the ultimate pc and are thinking about upgrading.
I'm an example:
Pentium3 800 Mhz
SDRam Mainboard
128 Mb SDRam
Geforce2 MX 32 DDR

What should I do if I've got the money to buy the radeon 9700, but not enough to also buy a new mainboard, memory, and processor?
Should I:
Buy the radeon 9700
or buy a geforce4 4200/4400 for half the price and with a little more upgrade the rest of my computer

What would give me the greatest performance boost?:

confused;
 

ciparis

Member
Aug 10, 2001
43
0
0
If you really can't get both (a faster rig and a 9700) I'd definitely ditch that P3 and upgrade to a nice overclocked P4 1.8 rig (or something like it). Then pick up either a Ti4200 for $150 or less, or even a sub-$100 radeon 9000 (or 8500 if you can find it) and start saving to buy a new vid card early next year, when prices on the new toys should begin to drop.
 

WyteWatt

Banned
Jun 8, 2001
6,255
0
0
The NV30 will crush the ATI 9700 pro and the NV40 will crush the next ATI video cards! Not saying the ATI 9700 pro is not a fast good video card because it seems like it really is if the drivers hold up. Which i think they will.
 

AnAndAustin

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2002
2,112
0
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;) GrimReefer, RIMM-PC800 is about even with DDR333-PC2700. I believe RIMM-PC1066 is about even with DDR400-PC3200. DDR-II and TRUE Dual DDR is scheduled for release in the coming months, this will make DDR cheaper AND far faster than RIMM. It makes little sense to buy RIMM on a new PC unless you need the absolute maximum speed. PC1066 only boosts overall perf by around 10% over DDR333 or PC800. DDR333 is much cheaper than PC800, as such DDR is currently the way to go.
 

AnAndAustin

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2002
2,112
0
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:) HellPreacher, sticking anything faster than a GF3TI200 or Rad8500LE in with a PIII 800mhz is pretty pointless, let alone the $400 monsters. Without a doubt upgrade your PC along with a mid-range gfx card.

Duron1.2ghz (effectively DuronXP1400+) $40
CPU HSF $10
256MB PC2100 $44
SktA mobo (SiS735/KT266A) $55

:D You could have this for $149! An AthlonXP2000+ is only $100, so you could have that with the above for only $209! You may find you need a new case+PSU ($50) and maybe a new soundcard (o/b $0), modem ($20) etc if yours currently use ISA (unlikely).

;) So AthlonXP2000+ with 256MB DDR would cost you $210 leaving you about $200 for a gfx card. For that you could get a GF4TI4400 or GF4TI4200 'Special Edition'. This would easily kick the ass of any gfx card you could stick in your PIII.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,117
1,323
126
so the Radeon will actually be 620 because it's ddr (double data rate, so double the memory speed)
And don't forget the 256 bit memory, which doubles the Radeon 9700's memory bandwidth on top of the DDR rating.

The 9700 has ~19 GB/sec memory bandwidth vs the Ti4600's ~10 GB/sec, so it really is much more powerful.
 

AnAndAustin

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2002
2,112
0
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:D Check this out, 3Dmark2001 (combi: total, games1-4 high detail FPS):

1024x768x32:
PIII 800mhz & GF2MX400: 3000, 17, 26, 27, na lacks full DX8 hw support
PIII 800mhz & GF4TI4600: 6500, 22, 72, 37, 44
Duron1.2ghz & GF4TI4600: 8000, 34, 90, 45, 44
Athlon1.3ghz & Rad9700: 10000, 40, 107, 51, 95
AthlonXP2000+ & GF4TI4400: 12000, 62, 122, 75, 69
P4 2.53ghz & GF2MX400: 4000, 35, 32, 35, na lacks full DX8 hw support

;) What you need is a well balanced config, no point sticking a fast gfx card in with a slow CPU, or a fast CPU with a slow gfx card. Plus anything and everything you do when you upgrade both your CPU & gfx card will be enhanced and not just games.
 

GrimReefer

Banned
Nov 11, 2000
555
0
0
Originally posted by: AnAndAustin
:D Check this out, 3Dmark2001 (combi: total, games1-4 high detail FPS):
P4 2.53ghz & GF2MX400: 4000, 35, 32, 35, na lacks full DX8 hw support
q]

How many marks does the 2.53 and the 9700 net in?
 

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