BigEd, in answer to your question for me personally, I just compared both of them for myself. The 8500 3dmarked at around 6400 and the VisionTek GF3ti200 at around 5400. This is right out of the box on a tbird 1.0ghz using windows xp pro. No overclocking, special cooling, etc. I played a good bit of Return To Castle Wolfenstein and Colin McRae Rally 2.0 on the 8500 and did not see anything wrong with it. Used the s-video output to tv in 800x600 and it seemed to work fine. Of course the text was not crystal clear, but I don't think thats possible with that low of a resolution on a regular tv. Also played part of a DVD on the 8500 and no problems there either. I couldn't see any real difference in playability between the two cards on those games either. Now granted, this was only an 1024x768 resolution as that is as high as my old IBM 21" trinitron goes, so maybe there would be some significant degradation as the resolutions get higher, I can't say from experience. I decided to keep the 8500 for the ability to output to two simultaneous screens, the gf3ti200 couldn't do that. We'll see where things go from here...