Discussion Radeon 6500XT and 6400

[GodisanAtheist]

Just getting a thread up for this. Navi 24 will ride... Q1 2022... ish.

AMD Readies Radeon RX 6500 XT and RX 6400 Graphics Cards

AMD is preparing to wrap up its Radeon RX 6000 series desktop discrete graphics card family with two new SKUs, the RX 6500 XT and the RX 6400. The two debut the company's smallest piece of silicon based on the RDNA2 graphics architecture, codenamed "Navi 24," to the desktop space. The RX 6500 XT...

www.techpowerup.com

I fugure the 6500XT lands ~5500XT territory for ~$200.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Disclaimer: I ain't throwing shade, so don't trip homies.

Now, I missed the power comparison, of whatever CPU is being used for the video functionality, that's missing from the 6400 and 6500.

Hypotheticals are not facts. Show me the money, as the expression has it. For instance: how much more power does a 12100 and 6500 use to play that AV1, than say a gtx1650 combined with a 12100f? Seriously, if I am obsessing about power usage for HTPC, why am I using a discreet GPU at all? There are APUs that can do it all in a 15W package. The whole discussion is a tempest in a tea pot from my POV.

I don't keep up with any video stuff I don't use. Example: I only know about transcoding bluray to other formats because I do it. I also think highest quality NVENC looks great for how incredibly fast it is. I ain't waiting around for the CPU to do it, as I doubt I would notice the difference enough to justify the extra time. But that is immaterial to the discussion, other than to preface that I am ignorant about much of the HTPC specifics, because my hardware does everything I want without needing to. AV1 has reached meme status for me.

I had to look up the nonsense about plex servers in that one thread because of the typical overinflated negative talking points about AMD not being as good at it. I was really shocked AMD had not addressed such a gaping hole in their feature set. Then I looked up the info about it, all indicating that so many streams have to be going, that it points to being predominantly a problem for the ethically challenged, more than an actual issue.

Yeah, the lack of media encoder decoder features on a budget gaming card, doesn't have me sharpening my pitchfork. I am a, have more than one tool for different jobs, type. If my concern is energy use for decoding av1, I'd have a low power HTPC for it. Sounds like in some places, it would pay for itself over time.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Electricity average price in Denmark is ~$.35 per KWh from a quick Google search. That makes the cost difference a bit under $10. Even doubling for higher prices lately is only $20 per year. For most people that's just eating out for lunch one less time.

If you really care about power use, just watch the video on a tablet. Those are going to save enough so you could eat out an extra day each year.

He lives there, if he says he pays more, I accept that as fact.

I completely agree with your analysis otherwise. You said it much more succinctly than I did. Use something low powered and cheap for the job. When all you have is a hammer, everything is a nail. But a screwdriver for screws.

 

[maddie]

50W = 20 hours video per KWh. 25W = 40 hours of video.

Across a whole year that is a significant difference. If you f.x. watch 3 hours of whatever video/tv a day (about danish average), on a monthly basis that is 2.325KWh less. On a yearly basis 27.9KWh less.

That is a little less then a third of what I've used all this month to put things in perspective.

Most monitors today really shouldn't be using much more then 20W. My "TV" uses 8W. As measured with a power meter.

Can you indicate what model you use for the TV? Studying what's needed for an off-grid setup.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Electricity average price in Denmark is ~$.35 per KWh from a quick Google search. That makes the cost difference a bit under $10. Even doubling for higher prices lately is only $20 per year. For most people that's just eating out for lunch one less time.

Don't know where you found that, but here is a place where you can view it more-or-less real-time:

https://andelenergi.dk/kundeservice/aftaler-og-priser/timepris/

Remember, averages can smooth out a lot of nasty stuff. Then add 1.13DKK energy tax, various service charges etc. and of course 25% VAT on top of everything.

Can you indicate what model you use for the TV? Studying what's needed for an off-grid setup.

Sure:

https://www.philips.dk/c-p/24PHS4304_12/4300-series-led-tv

I don't know if you can still get them.

 

[Shivansps]

Don't know where you found that, but here is a place where you can view it more-or-less real-time:

https://andelenergi.dk/kundeservice/aftaler-og-priser/timepris/

Remember, averages can smooth out a lot of nasty stuff. Then add 1.13DKK energy tax, various service charges etc. and of course 25% VAT on top of everything.



Sure:

https://www.philips.dk/c-p/24PHS4304_12/4300-series-led-tv

I don't know if you can still get them.

Those comes with integrated PSU or the external brick? external bricks makes really easy to plug it to a solar system. In my country there is no TV with external bricks, whats really funny because pc monitors usually comes with external bricks.

 

[psolord]

From videocardz (with data shared from wccftech)

Intel Arc desktop finally launched


I think it's not bad, it's just expensive. Maybe. I don't know. I mean it does have more vram and better decoder. These are not free. You don't know how UE5 or next gen games in general, will react with more vram later on. For a first try I am ok with it.

What I am not OK with, is the even greater performance drop, on AMD systems, which will obviously include other systems as well.

EDIT: WOW WHAT AN IDIOT. I posted in the wrong thread.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Those comes with integrated PSU or the external brick? external bricks makes really easy to plug it to a solar system. In my country there is no TV with external bricks, whats really funny because pc monitors usually comes with external bricks.

Just your regular 230V figure 8 plug.

But you should be able to get a 12V "camping tv*" easily enough. I've seen some which would accept both 110V/230V mains and 12V.

*Probably called that everywhere. They're also suitable for use on boats.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Until we get a faster single slot LP card, the 6400 is the best for that niche of builds.

I watched a vid about punishing a 6400 by making it do 8K gaming. It ended with an opinion that I share. That being: revisiting old games with what would have been insane res and/or settings at the time, can be more fun than any of the new tech showcase games that are basically broken on release. Something even the lowly 6400 can do. As seen here -

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I picked up the same XFX 6400 he uses in the above video. Leveraged Amazon promotions, and prime day deals, to get it for $117.50.

I spent some time with it yesterday. Win11 pro - X570 - 3700X - 2x8GB 3000MHz 1TB NVME 3.0 X4. It was the most convenient testbed. I will use faster ram today. SAM doesn't seem to work, even though it does with a RX 6600.

Note: I never use motion blur if it can be disabled. I always use freesync.

Tomb Raider 2013 - 75fps pretty much locked at1080p Ultra settings. Max power draw 43W

Fallout 4 2015 - 75fps pretty much locked at 1080p Everything maxed but shadows which were on high. I could get it to drop to high 50s low 60s for a second or 2 by sprinting near a fire at night in a firefight with multiple enemies. VRR kept it smooth. Max power draw 43W

Shadow of Mordor 2014 - 75fps pretty much locked at 1080p Max except shadows and textures. I think it was one of the earliest games to need 6GB or more for ultra textures without mods. Max power draw 45W

I will get to 2018-2020 games next. But so far, it is obvious it will play 100s of games I own with great visuals and performance. There does not appear to be another card this tiny that can touch it?

Nothing better in this hobby, than using almost universally maligned hardware, and having a great time with it. Some day, maybe, just maybe, everyone will stop letting influencers make up their minds for them. Yeah, and maybe I'm a Chinese jet pilot. (My favorite Army of Darkness quote)

Going to effort a tiny build with it.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Tomb Raider 2013 - 75fps pretty much locked at1080p Ultra settings. Max power draw 43W

Fallout 4 2015 - 75fps pretty much locked at 1080p Everything maxed but shadows which were on high. I could get it to drop to high 50s low 60s for a second or 2 by sprinting near a fire at night in a firefight with multiple enemies. VRR kept it smooth. Max power draw 43W

Shadow of Mordor 2014 - 75fps pretty much locked at 1080p Max except shadows and textures. I think it was one of the earliest games to need 6GB or more for ultra textures without mods. Max power draw 45W

That is not half bad. I'm assuming that is just for the card?

Might pick up one of these for legacy titles.

 

[DeathReborn]

I picked up the same XFX 6400 he uses in the above video. Leveraged Amazon promotions, and prime day deals, to get it for $117.50.

I spent some time with it yesterday. Win11 pro - X570 - 3700X - 2x8GB 3000MHz 1TB NVME 3.0 X4. It was the most convenient testbed. I will use faster ram today. SAM doesn't seem to work, even though it does with a RX 6600.

Note: I never use motion blur if it can be disabled. I always use freesync.

Tomb Raider 2013 - 75fps pretty much locked at1080p Ultra settings. Max power draw 43W

Fallout 4 2015 - 75fps pretty much locked at 1080p Everything maxed but shadows which were on high. I could get it to drop to high 50s low 60s for a second or 2 by sprinting near a fire at night in a firefight with multiple enemies. VRR kept it smooth. Max power draw 43W

Shadow of Mordor 2014 - 75fps pretty much locked at 1080p Max except shadows and textures. I think it was one of the earliest games to need 6GB or more for ultra textures without mods. Max power draw 45W

I will get to 2018-2020 games next. But so far, it is obvious it will play 100s of games I own with great visuals and performance. There does not appear to be another card this tiny that can touch it?

Nothing better in this hobby, than using almost universally maligned hardware, and having a great time with it. Some day, maybe, just maybe, everyone will stop letting influencers make up their minds for them. Yeah, and maybe I'm a Chinese jet pilot. (My favorite Army of Darkness quote)

Going to effort a tiny build with it.

Pretty close to a R9 290 (~200W) there but for Fallout 4 you should do central Boston for testing, that's where it really hurts most.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Pretty close to a R9 290 (~200W) there but for Fallout 4 you should do central Boston for testing, that's where it really hurts most.

Yup, that is where the big fights with super mutants and raiders, in the dark with a fire burning, caused the quick drops while sprinting around. It happened for a second here and there fighting robots from the DLC too. I did find a spot in one of the skyscrapers, where if I looked down at the bridge with the water all around, and long draw distance going all the way to the mountains, with just the right POV, and not move, it would sit around 54fps. With freesync, none of those dips are a buzzkill. I am not certain I would notice them if I wasn't using afterburner.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

That is not half bad. I'm assuming that is just for the card?

Might pick up one of these for legacy titles.

Correct. I don't have a Kill-O-Watt. I was going by HWiNFO and Afterburner.

The only thing so far that is a concern with this tiny thing, is the hotspot temp was hitting 85C after a couple of hours of use in a mid-tower with good airflow. I think I will buy some little heatsinks for the back of the card. It is really toasty when I put my finger on the back, where the GPU is. Wicking that heat away faster should help. I had a old Quadro 600 almost this size that was very similar. Hopefully this card takes the heat as well as that one did. It was like a decade old and still humming along.

 

[jpiniero]

Looked again and still haven't seen an Navi 24 laptop model in the wild or even a review. Maybe it's Asia exclusive? Either way AMD really screwed this up and I have to think they will have to eat a loss on this in the end.

 

[LightningZ71]

In case anyone even still cares about the 6400/6500xt, the 4GB memory size was an artificial limit. It was done intentionally to force buyers into higher priced cards...

Witness the new Saphire 8GB 6500XT...

PULSE AMD Radeon™ RX 6500 XT 8GB

<p>Up to 2855 MHz, 8GB/64 bit DDR6. 18 Gbps Effective</p>

www.sapphiretech.com

Yes, it seems that it had to wait for GDDR6 4GB chips to be released to volume production.
Correction: It's likely just 2GB chips in clamshell...

 

[GodisanAtheist]

In case anyone even still cares about the 6400/6500xt, the 4GB memory size was an artificial limit. It was done intentionally to force buyers into higher priced cards...

Witness the new Saphire 8GB 6500XT...

PULSE AMD Radeon™ RX 6500 XT 8GB

<p>Up to 2855 MHz, 8GB/64 bit DDR6. 18 Gbps Effective</p>

www.sapphiretech.com

Yes, it seems that it had to wait for GDDR6 4GB chips to be released to volume production.

-I wouldn't consider the RAM size an artificial limit if the chips needed to increase RAM capacity didn't exist when the card was first sold.

But I see your point.

Interested to see the price delta between the 4/8gb versions on the street and more importantly the performance difference anywhere 4gb was cramping the card's style.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Witness the new Saphire 8GB 6500XT...

Nice, a 6500 XT that can mine...

 

[jpiniero]

Probably not 4 GB chips. Instead it's likely a dual sided card intended for mining that they are for some reason releasing now.

 

[maddie]

Nice, a 6500 XT that can mine...

I thought bandwidth is also an issue.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I thought bandwidth is also an issue.

I didn't say "well". But there is a niche for cheaper, lower-density, low-power hashing, for those that have the space.
I am assuming performance / watt is similar with the whole RDNA2 family.

 

[LightningZ71]

Considering that I don't see any 32Gb ICs available from any of the major DRAM companies, I'm assuming that it has to be in clamshell mode. It's not impossible, Navi 21 on the W6800 supports 32GB on a 256 bit bus. Extrapolating down allows 8GB on a 64 bit bus. Now, the w6400 only has 4GB, but we don't know if that segmentation is artificial. This isn't without earlier precedent as there was a 16GB RX570 produced a while back.

I can imagine that, with 20 or 22Gbps (or even the new 24Gbps ones) memory chips, it would probably be a fantastic miner for the power. If the card didn't have a gutted media engine, it might even make my suggestion list for lower cost gaming card as having that amount of VRAM should be plenty for 1080p.

 

[jpiniero]

Not sure what the price is gonna be. There's several 6600s in the $280 range already.

 

[LightningZ71]

I suspect that it will wind up in the $200-220 range with the regular 6500xt being in the $180-210 range and the 6400 being lower. Having a 130w TBP certainly increases the build cost over the base design.

 

[maddie]

I suspect that it will wind up in the $200-220 range with the regular 6500xt being in the $180-210 range and the 6400 being lower. Having a 130w TBP certainly increases the build cost over the base design.

$60 extra for a 6600. This one should be DOA.

 

[LightningZ71]

Depends on the pricw sensitivity of the individual market.