Discussion Radeon 6500XT and 6400

[GodisanAtheist]

Just getting a thread up for this. Navi 24 will ride... Q1 2022... ish.

AMD Readies Radeon RX 6500 XT and RX 6400 Graphics Cards

AMD is preparing to wrap up its Radeon RX 6000 series desktop discrete graphics card family with two new SKUs, the RX 6500 XT and the RX 6400. The two debut the company's smallest piece of silicon based on the RDNA2 graphics architecture, codenamed "Navi 24," to the desktop space. The RX 6500 XT...

www.techpowerup.com

I fugure the 6500XT lands ~5500XT territory for ~$200.

 

[jpiniero]

RTX 3050 OTOH looks like a significantly better/less crippled card in every way.

Which is why it's going to be $200-300 more. That's why it's stupid to compare the two.

 

[Shivansps]

That would be ok if he would ask if it was a good time to build a entry-level gaming PC , but thats not the question he asked.

Customer : Hello, I would like to build a new entry level PC , which GPU would you suggest to buy at the 300 budget ??

You : None, wait until prices fall.

Me : Although current prices are way to high the best performance GPU at the $300 budget is the 6500XT. You may want to wait a few days for the RTX3050 to be released and check prices and availability and then decide which GPU to get.

Look, if you really have to build something today, the 12100F+H610+16GB+RX6500XT as a budget combo has no match. Thats the best price/perf you can build today. It does not means that you should build it. You are really playing with fire with the RX6500XT, things will get a lot worse from now on for that gpu with texture streaming.

It is a lot better that, if you are going to pay the overprice, to do it for the RX6600... they are $460 at newegg right now, $460 vs $270 = $190 more is well worth it. for what you get, plus you arent playing game lotery.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Which is why it's going to be $200-300 more. That's why it's stupid to compare the two.

I'm not the one that brought it up.

 

[Heartbreaker]

It is a lot better that, if you are going to pay the overprice, to do it for the RX6600... they are $460 at newegg right now, $460 vs $270 = $190 more is well worth it. for what you get, plus you arent playing game lotery.

Agreed. If you insist on being ripped off, it makes sense to get something that isn't crippled as well as a ripoff.

 

[maddie]

Look, if you really have to build something today, the 12100F+H610+16GB+RX6500XT as a budget combo has no match. Thats the best price/perf you can build today. It does not means that you should build it. You are really playing with fire with the RX6500XT, things will get a lot worse from now on for that gpu with texture streaming.

It is a lot better that, if you are going to pay the overprice, to do it for the RX6600... they are $460 at newegg right now, $460 vs $270 = $190 more is well worth it. for what you get, plus you arent playing game lotery.

I've noticed the 6600 also. Will talk to the interested person. I know you don't live in the North so can understand some are scraping just to get the (12100+H610+16GB+RX6500XT) combo. Individuals with disposable income are completely blind to other realities.

 

[ultimatebob]

The 6500 XT would have been a decent card if it was priced for under $149. It's too bad that you can't actually buy one for that price... yet. With Intel joining the fray and crypto mining profits falling off a cliff, it might happen sooner than you think.

 

[ultimatebob]

I see a lot of gamer restraint , just take a look at Steam Hardware Survey. RTX 3000 video cards are a very low margin percentage of cards used on steam even 16 months after release. And at the same time NVIDIA sold record high volume of graphics cards in that period.
This all means that Miners bought the vast majority of cards, some games also bought high-end cards and use them for both gaming and mining that is why they dont care about prices.
The rest of the games have stuck with old hardware and waiting for better pastures , others have purchased cheap cards like GTX 1650 just to have a card that is able to play games at 1080p for the hope prices will fall in the future.

The Steam Hardware Survey still shows the GeForce 1060 as the most popular video card. It came out in 2016, and the 6500XT still struggles to outperform it in certain games. That's kinda sad when you think about it.

 

[jpiniero]

The 6500 XT would have been a decent card if it was priced for under $149. It's too bad that you can't actually buy one for that price... yet. With Intel joining the fray and crypto mining profits falling off a cliff, it might happen sooner than you think.

If the 6500 XT ends up not being able to hold $199 expect AMD to basically discontinue it.

 

[ultimatebob]

If the 6500 XT ends up not being able to hold $199 expect AMD to basically discontinue it.

I wouldn't think so... the 6500 XT probably costs AMD's board partners a lot less to manufacture than their higher end cards because of it's simple design. I'd imagine that it would still be profitable to produce at $149.

They could probably make a lower clocked version that only requires a single slot and no PCI-E power connector for even cheaper. Call it the 6500 "LE" perhaps? Crank them out for $129 each, and you have something that you can put in a sub $500 gaming PC that would run rings around the GeForce 1030 and all of those terrible GeForce 700 series cards that are being put in those cases. Basically, it would be a slightly beefed up version of the 6400.

 

[Asterox]

Hm strange, under GPU Specification AMD does not list VP9 video decoding.Youtube defoult video format is VP9, unless it detects AV1 hardware = automatically sends AV1(if available)video stream.In reality, YouTube still has a negligible amount AV1 videos available.

https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/amd-radeon-rx-6500-xt

https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/amd-radeon-rx-6600

https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/amd-radeon-rx-6800

AMD VCN hardware supports VP9 decoding, or any Ryzen APU has VCN.

Unified Video Decoder - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Video Core Next - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://twitter.com/x/status/1484582186003021826

DXVA Checker, bottom left option put a check mark on "Hide unknown decoder device".

This is my example with Renoir APU.

 

[jpiniero]

I wouldn't think so... the 6500 XT probably costs AMD's board partners a lot less to manufacture than their higher end cards because of it's simple design. I'd imagine that it would still be profitable to produce at $149.

Even if that was the case I'd think they would use the 7 nm wafers for a more profitable product. The 6500 XT is just a vanity product which only exists because of current GPU prices.

 

[KompuKare]

Navi 24 is 6nm, so it's production wouldn't affect 7nm wafers.
Aside from being AMD's 6nm pipe cleaner, it also possibly tells TSMC that AMD are well behaved and are following TSMC's recommendation to port 7nm products to 6nm.

 

[jpiniero]

Navi 24 is 6nm, so it's production wouldn't affect 7nm wafers.
Aside from being AMD's 6nm pipe cleaner, it also possibly tells TSMC that AMD are well behaved and are following TSMC's recommendation to port 7nm products to 6nm.

Oh that's right. Same deal though as I'm sure they could find a 6 nm product to fab instead.

 

[Leeea]

I wouldn't think so... the 6500 XT probably costs AMD's board partners a lot less to manufacture than their higher end cards because of it's simple design. I'd imagine that it would still be profitable to produce at $149.

They could probably make a lower clocked version that only requires a single slot and no PCI-E power connector for even cheaper. Call it the 6500 "LE" perhaps? Crank them out for $129 each, and you have something that you can put in a sub $500 gaming PC that would run rings around the GeForce 1030 and all of those terrible GeForce 700 series cards that are being put in those cases. Basically, it would be a slightly beefed up version of the 6400.

This.

Except, the single slot part is not necessary. It would do fine as a 1.5 or dual slot product. Skip the heat pipes to keep costs down. It just needs to be cheap and get all of its power from the PCIe slot.

Crank them out at $130 and it would dominate the low end. Likely end up in walmart "gaming" "PC"s.

 

[jpiniero]

Crank them out at $130 and it would dominate the low end. Likely end up in walmart "gaming" "PC"s.

That's what the 6400 is.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Saw on Reddit PCMR's are getting the ASRock phantom gaming model for $199 at MicroCenter. At that price, it is untouchable for a 12th gen budget gaming build.

@coercitiv

I know it is your honest opinion, saying some of us have been gaslighted. You cannot explain it to yourself any other way. But for me, it amounts to nothing more than intellectually lazy sloganeering. "They've been gaslighted" Weak. Because @maddie and I have both asked what other gaming card we can buy NIB for the money, that is better. No one has answered with anything beyond the bot script level DIY meme of WAIT. The reason being, it would have to be acknowledged that there is no better option. If any 3050 model can be readily had for $350, it will be highly compelling. And it will make the WAIT bots right for a change. But I suspect it will be yet another, winning the shuffle to get a card, after launch, for most who want one, but are unwilling to get fleeced.

I have stated it is a sad reality, that the bar is so low. But it is. You guys carry on with your fantasy league stats. I walk a different path. A path evidently lit, with gas lamps.

BTW, I ignore the agenda driven posters, not worth responding to. But a hearty THANK YOU to all the haters, for keeping this card in stock and at such a fair price for the current market.

 

[jpiniero]

Saw on Reddit PCMR members are getting the ASRock phantom gaming model for $199 right now. At that price, it is untouchable for a 12th gen budget gaming build.

Buying this card is very much not PCMR, but hey. Also Newegg had the Pulse for $199 earlier today.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Also Newegg had the Pulse for $199 earlier today.

That, I would have gone for.

 

[Mopetar]

Buying this card is very much not PCMR, but hey. Also Newegg had the Pulse for $199 earlier today.

It would actually be nice if AMD is able to keep pushing out just enough supply of cards sold at MSRP so that scalpers end up eating a bit of a loss for once.

They may not be able to keep them in stock at all times, but if there's a weekly drop then the more people will hold out and avoid eBay.

 

[coercitiv]

"They've been gaslighted" Weak. Because @maddie and I have both asked what other gaming card we can buy NIB for the money, that is better. No one has answered with anything beyond the bot script level DIY meme of WAIT.

I can only point out the same thing I did for @AtenRa: if someone asks you for build advice today, will you also mention waiting until the 3050 launch? Because if you do mention they may want to wait, then you're just as intellectually conflicted as the people criticizing the 6500XT, as some of them would still buy it given no other choice. A product is good or bad no matter whether someone is metaphorically pointing a gun to your head in order to make you buy it.

Let me make the razor even sharper. What would you recommend to Joe today:

1. 6500XT @ $199 /w 4GB VRAM
2. 6500XT @ $249 /w 8GB VRAM

Why aren't we getting the option to choose? Because of the miners?! Heck, put both products on the market, let's see the 8GB variant price blow up because of crypto and AMD getting grateful nods from gamers happy they have a 4GB version just for them. Or could it just be that the review comparison would be problematic for the 4GB variant while the $249 MSRP of 8GB SKU would look bad in upcoming reviews? (even if MSRP isn't representative for real market pricing anymore)

Here's a mainstream reviewer expressing her... "feeling" for the immediate future:

 

[scineram]

There will never be a new $150 gaming video card ever again. Or probably under $200. Discuss.

 

[Heartbreaker]

1. 6500XT @ $199 /w 4GB VRAM
2. 6500XT @ $249 /w 8GB VRAM

Why aren't we getting the option to choose? Because of the miners?! Heck, put both products on the market, let's see the 8GB variant price blow up because of crypto and AMD getting grateful nods from gamers happy they have a 4GB version just for them. Or could it just be that the review comparison would be problematic for the 4GB variant while the $249 MSRP of 8GB SKU would look bad in upcoming reviews? (even if MSRP isn't representative for real market pricing anymore)

Do 4GB GDDR6 chips exist? Because this is basically a 2 Chip card. I suppose you could double side the board to squeeze on 4 chips, but that seems unlikely.

Also, when AMD was cheaping out on everything they may also have cheaped out on the Address bus, and it can only address 4 GB (1 more bit to address 8GB).

There seemed be ZERO forward thinking, or consideration for other use cases, so there may be more real HW limitations on this as well.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I can only point out the same thing I did for @AtenRa: if someone asks you for build advice today, will you also mention waiting until the 3050 launch?

No I would not. No, no, and again, no. The fact that a card that many (including myself) would consider compelling at $350 is being called budget, is another sign we are in the dark tech times. Given the 6500xt was just released, and is popping up at $200, that is the card much more appropriate to a thrifty budget build. $150 is a lot money in the low budget build space, period.

Anecdotally: I see posts frequently on reddit subs of DIYers doing AMD APU builds while they search for a card without getting fleeced. Be it the shuffle, EVGA queue, BB or MC drop, or what have you. Instead of going with that 5700G, they can now get a 6500xt and i3 for about the same money as the APU costs. It will be a superior budget solution too.

And let me be explicit. Since responses keep going into strawmen I have no interest in. I don't care about how this makes AMD look. I don't care about what would happen if they had released an 8GB version, or any of that other fantasy league stuff. Or we can call them hypotheticals, if strawman feels offensive or off the mark. I don't hold AMD stock. I haven't used one of their discreet cards in a build in years. The only thing I care about, is what I can add to cart for a low cost build, because that's my bag baby. And I would spec the 6500xt for the build under any other circumstance than the 3050 being under $300 and readily available. Which feels like more fantasy league talk imo. I will eat that plate of crow if wrong.

Speaking of which, and off topic. I would like to publicly say the crow I am eating is not delicious, but I am eating it. @blckgrffn took the position that the 5600x would not get a significant price cut when the budget 12th gen were available. I thought that it would. He was right, I was wrong.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

There will never be a new $150 gaming video card ever again. Or probably under $200. Discuss.

With all the new microprocessor manufacturing being built. And the demand eventually getting filled, I think we will definitely see sub $200 gaming cards again. If the used market gets flooded with mining cards that will help too. It is the salad days for card makers now, it will not always be thus.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I like this take on it, It hits the right emotional notes for me-