Discussion Radeon 6500XT and 6400

[GodisanAtheist]

Just getting a thread up for this. Navi 24 will ride... Q1 2022... ish.

AMD Readies Radeon RX 6500 XT and RX 6400 Graphics Cards

AMD is preparing to wrap up its Radeon RX 6000 series desktop discrete graphics card family with two new SKUs, the RX 6500 XT and the RX 6400. The two debut the company's smallest piece of silicon based on the RDNA2 graphics architecture, codenamed "Navi 24," to the desktop space. The RX 6500 XT...

www.techpowerup.com

I fugure the 6500XT lands ~5500XT territory for ~$200.

 

[jpiniero]

If it sells for $400 that would be about $50 more than 6500XT is selling for on ebay tbh.

The 3050's real price is probably going to be close to the 6600.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Love the hate. Hope it continues. Only way to keep prices lower in this market. Planning to get one for a new parts build priced as low as possible and still relevant.

It's unlikely to help your quest.

The best way to keep prices lower is for gamers to stop paying scalper prices for decent cards.

Paying scalper prices for total garbage cards is not a solution to anything either, and even at MSRP, this card is scalper priced already.

In the standoff between gamers and scalpers, gamers utterly caved and paid outrageous prices, driving the mess.

Cards are getting to gamers in what looks like normal numbers, it's just gamers have shown zero will power, and immediately caved into paying stupid prices.

 

[AtenRa]

No. The best way to keep prices lower is for people to stop paying scalper prices for decent cards.

Paying scalper prices for total garbage cards is not a solution to anything.

In the standoff between gamers and scalpers, gamers utterly caved and paid outrageous prices, driving the mess.

Cards are getting to gamers in what looks like normal numbers, it's just gamers have shown zero will power, and immediately caved into paying stupid prices.

I see a lot of gamer restraint , just take a look at Steam Hardware Survey. RTX 3000 video cards are a very low margin percentage of cards used on steam even 16 months after release. And at the same time NVIDIA sold record high volume of graphics cards in that period.
This all means that Miners bought the vast majority of cards, some games also bought high-end cards and use them for both gaming and mining that is why they dont care about prices.
The rest of the games have stuck with old hardware and waiting for better pastures , others have purchased cheap cards like GTX 1650 just to have a card that is able to play games at 1080p for the hope prices will fall in the future.

 

[Heartbreaker]

I see a lot of gamer restraint , just take a look at Steam Hardware Survey. RTX 3000 video cards are a very low margin percentage of cards used on steam even 16 months after release. And at the same time NVIDIA sold record high volume of graphics cards in that period.
This all means that Miners bought the vast majority of cards, some games also bought high-end cards and use them for both gaming and mining that is why they dont care about prices.
The rest of the games have stuck with old hardware and waiting for better pastures , others have purchased cheap cards like GTX 1650 just to have a card that is able to play games at 1080p for the hope prices will fall in the future.

Steam HW Survey shows the RTX 3070 is in more systems than the GTX 1080 and GTX 1080 Ti. These were practically the peak of NVidia enthusiast cards. They were universally praised, had great prices, and the Pascal generation was one of the longest gap till the next generation. The stars aligned for Pascal being the most popular NVidia GPU generation.

So RTX 3070 already in more gamer hands, is a clear sign that big volumes have gone to gamers.

Gamers are getting them, they are just paying the silly prices, to enrich the scalpers and greedy retail chain.

 

[Panino Manino]

Navi 14 costs twice as much to fab, with a wide mining capable memory bus and much lower clocks. Good luck!

But still in my mind, off all the possibilities they could choose I feel that they chose one of the worst that they had available.

I don't know why some people mock about the card. The card is fine as it is. It's an ENTRY card for OEM systems or casual gamers. Why should it have 8 GB VRAM or encoders you actually wouldn't use with such a card anyway? If you want that then go with 6600 series. RX 6500 XT / 6400 are replacing RX 5300 which had only 3 GB VRAM and half the performance of RX 6500 XT. For me the only downside of RX 6500 XT is the TDP. It should have been possible the do such a card within 75W and without additional power connector. Even if it loses 5-10% performance I wouldn't care. It would have been a worthy upgrade for my current 75W card.

You say this because how the card actually performs, it's not how AMD tried to sell the card.
The 5500XT predecessor was a RX580 replacement, around the same performance with a few extras. Now the 6500XT is a RX570 successor? wut?

I guess the reality check is close enough, Nvidia is poised to launch the RTX 3050:

• $249 MSRP
• 8GB VRAM
• 5th gen Decoder and 7th gen Encoder, basically everything it needs

Reviews on the 26th, one day before launch.

At this point we can't even say anymore that Nvidia is beating the dead AMD horse. AMD isn't even trying to be the dead horse, it's an donkey.

"Not comparable"?
But it'll not be expensive to fab and will make a fortune in both sames and marketing points.

 

[tamz_msc]

Confirmation that Navi24 is a card to be used primarily in laptops:

AMDVLK 2022.Q1.1 Released With Radeon RX 6500 XT Support - Phoronix Forums

Phoronix: AMDVLK 2022.Q1.1 Released With Radeon RX 6500 XT Support After ending out 2021 with an AMDVLK update to fix poor performance on Wayland, AMD today issued AMDVLK 2022.Q1.1 with their first set of changes for the new year...

www.phoronix.com

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Love the hate. Hope it continues. Only way to keep prices lower in this market. Planning to get one for a new parts build priced as low as possible and still relevant.

In any case, is there a mandate that I missed, to buy this card?

Well, not the only way. Making it 4GB, PCIe 4.0 for full performance, and having gaming, but not media features, also helps, like a lot. I think it being a bad drop in 3.0 card, useless for HTPC, and below ETH spec, is brilliant in a sense. Narrows down who will buy it, and makes those claims of good availability seem accurate. And in the final analysis, it is faster for gaming than the 1650 and 1050ti, the other cards BNIB in its bracket, and it cleared that low hurdle = the crippled nag wins the race.

 

[Shivansps]

It was designed to Pair with Rembrandt APUs, which have full media, and PCIe 4.0. Also bear in mind that they will likely drop the clocks and performance a lot for laptops to get the power down for lower end laptop usage, then 4x PCIe really is less of an issue. Maybe even in PCIe 3.0 systems.

AMD employee confirms Navi 24's primary use is in laptops with Rembrandt APUs - VideoCardz.com

AMD Radeon RX 6500XT gets negative reviews AMD’s latest low-end GPU launch has been painted by limited performance, lack of encoding capabilities, and issues with limited PCIe lanes. The GPU maker’s decision to launch a low-end mobile GPU as the desktop had a disastrous effect. Reviewers have...

videocardz.com

It's almost like it was designed only for laptops, and then they saw how high it could clock and decided to make a discrete card out of it. But then it becomes problematic with weak Media, a only 4x PCIe.

Becarefull not to misunderstand what they are saying, "to be primary used in laptops" is very diferent from "it was designed only for laptops". I never argued that this was to be mainly used in laptops, i say they would have used this gpu to replace the RX550 if things were normal. Now it ended up replacing the RX5500XT.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

i say they would have used this gpu to replace the RX550 if things were normal. Now it ended up replacing the RX5500XT.

Now that I can agree with. But since things have not been normal for going on 2yrs now. When does everyone stop whinging about change for the worse, and deal with how things actually are? It's starting to sound like old people talking about how much a loaf of bread cost when they were a kid, and how it was better bread <insert okay grandma, let's get you to bed! meme here>

2yrs is like dog years in the tech space. When did DIYers turn into a bunch of Karens? It's manufactured outrage. AMD manufactured it, and now there's outrage.

I'll show myself out...

 

[coercitiv]

The five stages of grief, straight from a reddit thread:

Seems like people hate it only because its 4gb vram and hasn't been updated yet. I can't buy used gpus. What would be as good as or better with same amount of money (around 300€ euros)? Edit: I have a gtx 1050 2gb and I live in Finland.
edit 2: No I wont buy a console or a 500€ more expensive gpu.
edit 3: just found out that I have PCIE 3.0. Is it still worth it for 1080p 75hz gaming?
edit 4: I can buy a motherboard with PCIE 4 later, they are not that expensive.
edit 5: I will be playing rust, apex legends, im good with medium graphics and newer games im fine with low.

Making it 4GB, PCIe 4.0 for full performance, and having gaming, but not media features, also helps, like a lot. I think it being a bad drop in 3.0 card, useless for HTPC, and below ETH spec, is brilliant in a sense. Narrows down who will buy it, and makes those claims of good availability seem accurate.

Now who's playing make believe? Hatts off for AMD PR, they managed to gaslight quite the number of smart people.

 

[waffleironhead]

Radeon™ PRO W6500M Graphics (Mobile) | AMD

Here is the Radeon Pro Mobile version.
slightly lower flops 5.3T vs 5.765T
35-50W TGP

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Now who's playing make believe?

Point out where my logic is flawed. MSRP is fake news, now it's your turn. And you left out the part of the quote providing context/ pointing out those were factors helping with pricing, in addition to keeping the Karens mad.

 

[coercitiv]

MSRP is fake news, now it's your turn.

MSRP was used as basis for my previous discussion in this thread. It had to do with BoM estimates, not actual price on the market.

Point out where my logic is flawed.

Mining is very diverse and miners are very aggressive and flexible: they will find a use for the card, and pricing will reflect mining efficiency. Case in point, where is the army of cheaper LHR cards from Nvidia?

The only thing this neutered 6500XT will offer to the market will be even higher actual prices for the 3050 as consumers consolidate demand towards this end instead of having balanced offerings (in terms of features and perf) from both vendors replacing the 1650. This card does little to stave the GPU hunger.

The end of Jan is near, let's wait and see what happens after the Nvidia release.

 

[VirtualLarry]

The only thing this neutered 6500XT will offer to the market will be even higher actual prices for the 3050 as consumers consolidate demand towards this end instead of having balanced offerings (in terms of features and perf) from both vendors replacing the 1650. This card does little to stave the GPU hunger.

The end of Jan is near, let's wait and see what happens after the Nvidia release.

I saw a GTX 1650 4GB card for sale @ Newegg , for under $300, for the first time in a long time.

 

[coercitiv]

I saw a GTX 1650 4GB card for sale @ Newegg , for under $300, for the first time in a long time.

How's your mining going @VirtualLarry ? If the 6500XT turns out to use <50W while churning through a couple of newly launched coins, how long before you have a crate of them humming along?

 

[VirtualLarry]

How's your mining going @VirtualLarry ? If the 6500XT turns out to use <50W while churning through a couple of newly launched coins, how long before you have a crate of them humming along?

Apparently, these new RX 6500 XT cards really SUCK for mining. His reco was "not worth it under any circumstances, unless you can't afford a real mining card."

Edit: This thing is basically like trying to mine with a GT 1030 with 4GB of VRAM. Basically, suck-tastic. (My opinion, not his.)

Edit: Mining revenue is down like 30% in a month.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

MSRP was used as basis for my previous discussion in this thread. It had to do with BoM estimates, not actual price on the market.


Mining is very diverse and miners are very aggressive and flexible: they will find a use for the card, and pricing will reflect mining efficiency. Case in point, where is the army of cheaper LHR cards from Nvidia?

The only thing this neutered 6500XT will offer to the market will be even higher actual prices for the 3050 as consumers consolidate demand towards this end instead of having balanced offerings (in terms of features and perf) from both vendors replacing the 1650. This card does little to stave the GPU hunger.

The end of Jan is near, let's wait and see what happens after the Nvidia release.

Thanks for the civil reply. And for clarifying your use of MSRP, I missed that.

I will not address some of the post. It is speculative, and I would only be guessing in return.

LHR cards have enough ram for ETH, that is a key difference imo. And no one is scooping up all the 1650 stock, which is indicative that the ROI is not worthwhile. I have not seen the hash rate on the 6500, but I suspect it will have the same downside for miners. I will take my lumps if I am wrong.

The comment about the 6500 being responsible for further 3050 price inflation. Thanks Obama!

The GPU hunger thing is a straw man. It has nothing to do with my comments.

And another thing, I am neither gaslighted nor smart. I am however a pragmatist. And reading the responses leads me to think I am a pragmatist in a fantasy league discussion. Doesn't matter if the QB is winning games, his stats are bad, or something?

Not being smart, my hot take is simple, like myself. It is based on the real market, right now. Not historical, not speculative, the one where I add to cart if I am buying something today. In that market, I add a 12100 and B660 to my cart for a low budget gaming build. Now I want a sub $350 budget card to complete my budget gamer. I have 3 choices, really only 2 are worthwhile. 1050ti, 1650, and 6500. The 6500 stomps the 1050ti, and is significantly faster than the 1650 in most titles. Now being a pragmatist, the 6500 gets ordered.

Everything else falls into a few categories for me - Complaining because they have an ax to grind with a company. Strong preference for a rival. Financial stake i.e. horse in the race. The normal, overly analytical forum techie, that crunches a wealth of data to arrive at an opinion.

Then there are cats like me; pragmatic. All we care about is what we can use to build with. And what we can get for our money. I don't care where this card fits in historically. I don't care about the woulda coulda shoulda speculation that keeps forum discussions both alive and lively. My thing lately is belaboring the point. So once again - All I care about is what I can get for the build. Point to a better gaming card BNIB I can get for $300ish, and I'll use that instead. Until then, all the whinging does nothing to change the fact the 6500 is the best choice if I want to spec that build today. If I did not already have a 1650 Super to put in the 12100 bundle I have on the way, I would have bought this card already.

TLDR I am not a smart man. I only care about what I can buy when I buy parts ( I buy a lot). Why would a Wookiee, an 8-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of 2-foot-tall Ewoks? That does not make sense!

 

[GodisanAtheist]

In the standoff between gamers and scalpers, gamers utterly caved and paid outrageous prices, driving the mess.

Cards are getting to gamers in what looks like normal numbers, it's just gamers have shown zero will power, and immediately caved into paying stupid prices.

- This is what happens when gaming takes the place of an actual personality or any other activities or interests. Its a lifestyle thing now, like fitness/yoga or sports. People will do stupid things when marketing and image replace having to actually take an active interest in the world or try and support multiple hobbies.

*Gives cane a good shake*

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Apparently, these new RX 6500 XT cards really SUCK for mining. His reco was "not worth it under any circumstances, unless you can't afford a real mining card."

I surmised as much. And let me be the first to say -

Thanks Obama AMD!

Competition is good for all of us.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

- This is what happens when gaming takes the place of an actual personality or any other activities or interests. Its a lifestyle thing now, like fitness/yoga or sports. People will do stupid things when marketing and image replace having to actually take an active interest in the world or try and support multiple hobbies.

*Gives cane a good shake*

Here is why you are wrong, you cane shaking elder. Esports are huge and only getting bigger. Many of these gamers that adopted it as a lifestyle, have aspirations to be professionals gamers and/or streamers someday. Like all the kids playing sports, only a small percentage will make it. But that does not change the desire. And they need the equipment, like any other sport.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

You can buy a 6500XT new for $270 right now. Ebay, because of fees, will drive the price of the 3050 even higher. Literally, what ever the market will bear and then some.

Was just looking at sold listings on ebay.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Show me 5 games, just 5, where it isn't faster than a 1650.

And I could build a BNIB budget gamer 12100f B660 with it, and match the price of a 5600G alone.

HW Unboxed showed 3/12 in their testsuite that it performed worse than a 1050 Ti when using PCIE-3.0, seems like a real red flag to me.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

The 3050's real price is probably going to be close to the 6600.

Hope not, get the idea it's just going to be a 1070 with DLSS and gimpy raytracing.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

HW Unboxed showed 3/12 in their testsuite that it performed worse than a 1050 Ti when using PCIE-3.0, seems like a real red flag to me.

I saw that, and that's why I asked for 5. I am certain there are 2 or more. I would not use this card for a 3.0 build, as I share your POV about it. But I will probably pick one up for a 12th gen i3 build at some point. Unless the price goes derp like every other card.

 

[AtenRa]

Steam HW Survey shows the RTX 3070 is in more systems than the GTX 1080 and GTX 1080 Ti. These were practically the peak of NVidia enthusiast cards. They were universally praised, had great prices, and the Pascal generation was one of the longest gap till the next generation. The stars aligned for Pascal being the most popular NVidia GPU generation.

So RTX 3070 already in more gamer hands, is a clear sign that big volumes have gone to gamers.

Gamers are getting them, they are just paying the silly prices, to enrich the scalpers and greedy retail chain.

RTX3070 only has a 1.94% usage in Steam Hardware Survay , that is not big volume if you take in to account that RTX2070 + RTX2070 Super reached 2.5% in January 2020.

Also as I have already pointed out, a lot of those RTX3070 on Steam are used for both Gaming and Mining so those users dont care about increased prices that much.