Racist Soap Dispenser!

[Perknose]

Watch this video. It was made by Chukwuemeka Afigbo, a Nigerian man who works in tech, to cheekily highlight how a lack of employee diversity in tech affects the assumptions made behind algorithms that control the design of things.

Some excerpts from the linked article:

There are plenty more examples of this. Soap dispensers, for one, seem to be particularly bad at dealing with different skin tones. In the past, Flickr and Google were both forced to apologize when their automatic image labeling systems were tagging photos of black people with “ape” and “gorilla".

There was also the story of Joz Wang, a Taiwanese-American, whose Nikon digital camera kept offering up with the message “Did someone blink?”, to which she responded with a blog post titled “No, I did not blink… I’m just Asian!”

A scientific study also brought up the issue of voice recognition applications being far more effective at understanding men’s voices compared to women's. That was because the software was trained using mainly male voices.

[...]

Google’s own statistics reveal its tech departments are just 1 percent black, 3 percent Hispanic, 3 percent mixed-race, 39 percent Asian, and 53 percent white. Statistics on other tech giants paint a similar story.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Looks more like the light sensing logic needs to be adjusted for wider color recognition.

 

[Commodus]

That's the funny/sad thing about all those bigoted conservative white guys moaning about diversity at tech companies like Facebook and Google -- they don't even stop to think that diversity has a functional advantage. Uber, for example, might have avoided numerous sexual assaults if it had a woman on the design staff to point out the need for safety features before the incidents happened.

Of course, the anti-diversity crew's issue was never really about functional performance, just getting women and non-whites out of tech.

 

[realibrad]

Watch this video. It was made by Chukwuemeka Afigbo, a Nigerian man who works in tech, to cheekily highlight how a lack of employee diversity in tech affects the assumptions made behind algorithms that control the design of things.

Some excerpts from the linked article:

While its true that the sensor might not be picking up his hand because its darker and thus less light is being reflected, it may be other things as well. This is not new, and here is an article from a few years back where an expert addresses the issue.

https://mic.com/articles/124899/the...spenser-doesn-t-work-on-black-skin#.4L9P1LfAx

"Whitney said there might be other elements in play. The sensor may have been touchy, only picking up hand movement at weird angles that Fitzpatrick didn't hit but his friend did. Or he could have been minimizing his hand exposure to not be detected as easily.

"I know how the sensor works, have pasty white skin and I still have to flail at automatic faucets on a regular basis," Whitney told Mic. "It's not that I disbelieve that the scenario could happen, but that I believe it's unlikely to be the case here. The main reason for skepticism is that the difference in coloration of the palms we see in the video is very small. Small enough that I ... would expect that narrow a range of sensitivity to cause all sorts of other problems."

The solution is to develop sensors with a wider range cheaply. Raising this as an issue will help as it signals to the market that there is profits to be made if the technology is further developed cheaply.

 

[Greenman]

Looks like incomplete product testing to me.

 

[Starbuck1975]

That's the funny/sad thing about all those bigoted conservative white guys moaning about diversity at tech companies like Facebook and Google -- they don't even stop to think that diversity has a functional advantage. Uber, for example, might have avoided numerous sexual assaults if it had a woman on the design staff to point out the need for safety features before the incidents happened.

Of course, the anti-diversity crew's issue was never really about functional performance, just getting women and non-whites out of tech.

What is the argument for functional performance when your company was able to establish market dominance without accomodating diversity? Facebook and Google seem to be doing just fine from a functional performance perspective.

All products go through revisions based on evolving, changing or missed customer requirements. It’s impossible for every product team to have representation of every target demographic and their respective requirements.

 

[realibrad]

To be clear, this works for Black people. The issue is that if you have sufficiently dark enough skin it has a harder time. This is not discrimination so much as a limitation of hardware.

 

[bshole]

There was also the story of Joz Wang, a Taiwanese-American, whose Nikon digital camera kept offering up with the message “Did someone blink?”, to which she responded with a blog post titled “No, I did not blink… I’m just Asian!”

ROFLMAO! Damn those racist Japanese engineers who designed a camera that discriminates against Asians. Will the outrages never end? My god these journalists are incompetent in their job. If they want to sell the idea of "diversity" they shouldn't provide an example that shreds their own argument.

Thank god, American engineering is not at the same abysmal state that American journalism is. It would be nice if the media cleaned up their own profession before coming after mine. Last time I checked, my profession is the among the most respected and theirs is among the least.

 

[repoman0]

Thank god, American engineering is not at the same abysmal state that American journalism is. It would be nice if the media cleaned up their own profession before coming after mine. Last time I checked, my profession is the among the most respected and theirs is among the least.

Uhhh... I have a hint for you. IFLScience is not journalism and is basically full of Fox News level BS.

I respect real, good journalists more than I respect software engineers More than I respect electrical engineers too for that matter, speaking as one.

 

[Commodus]

What is the argument for functional performance when your company was able to establish market dominance without accomodating diversity? Facebook and Google seem to be doing just fine from a functional performance perspective.

All products go through revisions based on evolving, changing or missed customer requirements. It’s impossible for every product team to have representation of every target demographic and their respective requirements.

Aside from just wanting to do right by your customers, you mean? Well, if you're going to be cynical, companies often turn to underserved markets to maintain their growth rate, so it's in their best interests to support more than just white men. And you might have just undermined your own argument -- both Facebook and Google have been pushing diversity for the past few years, so it's not hurting (and might be helping) their businesses.

I'm not suggesting that companies must turn themselves into the United Nations with every vaguely significant demographic covered. But they should have a wider base than you've sometimes seen, and arguably at least a bit wider than you see now. It's ultimately about designing products that acknowledge the existence of people who aren't white (and sometimes Indian) men.

 

[HomerJS]

Looks like incomplete product testing to me.

More like it would never occur to them "test all different races of people"

I did chuckle at the results. However the subtle inherent exclusion hits you in the face.

 

[hal2kilo]

ROFLMAO! Damn those racist Japanese engineers who designed a camera that discriminates against Asians. Will the outrages never end? My god these journalists are incompetent in their job. If they want to sell the idea of "diversity" they shouldn't provide an example that shreds their own argument.

Thank god, American engineering is not at the same abysmal state that American journalism is. It would be nice if the media cleaned up their own profession before coming after mine. Last time I checked, my profession is the among the most respected and theirs is among the least.

So you really have gone over to the dark side.

 

[Paladin3]

ROFLMAO! Damn those racist Japanese engineers who designed a camera that discriminates against Asians. Will the outrages never end? My god these journalists are incompetent in their job. If they want to sell the idea of "diversity" they shouldn't provide an example that shreds their own argument.

Thank god, American engineering is not at the same abysmal state that American journalism is. It would be nice if the media cleaned up their own profession before coming after mine. Last time I checked, my profession is the among the most respected and theirs is among the least.

As a retired journalist I recognize how important it is to be a smart consumer of the news media. Understand most "journalists" aren't being paid very well, and the profession does not attract the best and brightest.

Every journalist will have a personal perspective on stories they report that naturally affects their reporting to some degree regardless of how hard they try to be objective. And objectivity goes out the window because many of today's crusading journalists have an agenda they don't even try to hide. Not to mention the sensational click-bait stories masquerading as news.

Know the source of your news and filter it accordingly. The truth is sometimes buried in there, but often today's media is just an exercise in massaging the story to to support a larger narrative. Or simply generate clicks to sell ads.

There are good reasons journalists are held in low regards these days.

 

[zinfamous]

It would be nice if the media cleaned up their own profession before coming after mine. Last time I checked, my profession is the among the most respected and theirs is among the least.

I'm going to guess that the last time you checked is: never.

Jesus fucking christ man, when exactly did you do that whole rail of PCP and divert course from the sensible path of Hyabusa Ln and straight off the cliff towards the intersection of Fern Ave. and Bath Salts Way?


No call outs.

AT Moderator ElFenix

 

[realibrad]

More like it would never occur to them "test all different races of people"

I did chuckle at the results. However the subtle inherent exclusion hits you in the face.

It works for different races.

 

[hal2kilo]

I'm going to guess that the last time you checked is: never.

Jesus fucking christ man, when exactly did you do that whole rail of PCP and divert course from the sensible path of Hyabusa lane and straight off the cliff towards Fern avenue and Bath Salts way?

Go ahead and cut me.

 

[realibrad]

I'm going to guess that the last time you checked is: never.

Jesus fucking christ man, when exactly did you do that whole rail of PCP and divert course from the sensible path of Hyabusa Ln and straight off the cliff towards the intersection of Fern Ave. and Bath Salts Way?

 

[Starbuck1975]

Aside from just wanting to do right by your customers, you mean? Well, if you're going to be cynical, companies often turn to underserved markets to maintain their growth rate, so it's in their best interests to support more than just white men. And you might have just undermined your own argument -- both Facebook and Google have been pushing diversity for the past few years, so it's not hurting (and might be helping) their businesses.

I'm not suggesting that companies must turn themselves into the United Nations with every vaguely significant demographic covered. But they should have a wider base than you've sometimes seen, and arguably at least a bit wider than you see now. It's ultimately about designing products that acknowledge the existence of people who aren't white (and sometimes Indian) men.

Diversity doesn’t hurt, but I think the benefits get amplified and sometimes intermingled or confused with social justice and affirmative action.

One person may look at a bowl of M&Ms, only see blues ones and lament the lack of diversity. Another may appreciate and recognize the diversity of that same bowl because it contains peanut and chocolate and caramel and pretzel ones.

I accept that diversity opens companies to new and perhaps underserved markets. I reject a conversation on diversity that exclusively fixates on race and gender.

 

[thedarkwolf]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMy5YpJysy4&t=
and one of the best "Better Off Ted" episodes goes here

 

[Greenman]

More like it would never occur to them "test all different races of people"

I did chuckle at the results. However the subtle inherent exclusion hits you in the face.

I would think that testing different skin colors would have been second on the list. The first question being, does it work? The second questing being, does it work for everyone?

 

[Bitek]

Diversity doesn’t hurt, but I think the benefits get amplified and sometimes intermingled or confused with social justice and affirmative action.

One person may look at a bowl of M&Ms, only see blues ones and lament the lack of diversity. Another may appreciate and recognize the diversity of that same bowl because it contains peanut and chocolate and caramel and pretzel ones.

I accept that diversity opens companies to new and perhaps underserved markets. I reject a conversation on diversity that exclusively fixates on race and gender.

It sounds like you are suggesting diversity programs focus on recruiting different types of white guys.

Interesting approach...

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Looks more like the light sensing logic needs to be adjusted for wider color recognition.

But somehow, somewhere, someone needs to get angry at a device for being racist. Because it isn't humanly possible that there is a design flaw in a piece of technology.

How this relates to diversity in tech, I'll never know. Either way OP - start ponying up money for blacks to go into tech. The opportunities are there - there is nothing that stops them except for their peers that tell them it's not cool.


This type of racism/stereotyping of African Americans is not welcome here.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[UberNeuman]

Oh, well. That's a simple fix. Just add a black light to it.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

It sounds like you are suggesting diversity programs focus on recruiting different types of white guys.

Interesting approach...

His point is that diversity isn't just a color trait you moron. People center so much just on the color of one's skin that they fail to realize that there are ENDLESS other traits that generate diversity - FAR more than simply a color.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Also - depending on where something is developed, being "diverse" in the retarded sense (relating only to race) isn't always possible.

For example, good luck being diverse if you're trying to develop something in Iceland.