Racism in Belgium

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: freegeeks
it's also interesting to see that your aborted Siamese twin RabidMongoose and flagwaving idiot HeroWhatever are starting several threads and basically ridiculing the threads I started.


interesting

very interesting

if an American starts a thread about racism in Europe it is considered viable information
when an European starts a thread about racism in the USA he is ridiculed

interesting

very interesting

Huh? I don't think that I've started any thread in P&N in a long time.

sorry - my basic knowledge of English is messing my sencence up

HeroWhatever is starting threads ridiculing the information I posted in other threads and you are following him around sucking his d*ck

Huh? I post a joke in one of his posts about Ireland and then post a reply here and now all of a sudden I'm 'following him around sucking his d*ck'? Hell, I even posted in your threads.

You're just too damn defensive all of the time. Do you ever not insult anyone? You trolled me from the very beginning before I ever really posted much in P&N.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Czar
lets keep this civil please

That's not possible with people like Frank.

not helping

not helping either

No offense, but you are no great mediator.

I know I dont have the mod aura

 

[kage69]

You guys crack me up. :laugh::beer:

HeroWhatever is starting threads ridiculing the information I posted in other threads and you are following him around sucking his d*ck

BwahahahaWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!



Edit: Ok, now that I'm done laughing, I just wanna say that while geeks does need to chill a little, it's kinda evident that this thread was aimed at him, and when the reaction was agreement, Mr. Morals starts shaking his finger at people. :roll: Always nice to see someone accusing someone else of doing the exact same thing. Knowing HeroWhatever's politics, I can't say the hypocrisy surprises me.

Not that it matters (I'm in the US), but the two Belgian guys I work with both have black wives, one of them I know being a father. They don't strike me as racist. Just saying...

 

[sMiLeYz]

So much racism in such a little country .

 

[Zephyr106]

Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
So much racism in such a little country .

Is liberation warranted?

Zephyr

 

[Mardeth]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Since this is a thread about Belgium, I guess I should ask...FreeGeeks or another European, do you believe that European racial/ethnic issues at the government, social and public level are better/worse/or equal in magnitude to problems in the US? And why?

Yes and no. The image I have is that racism in the US is more against skin colour but in Europe its more against the culture, for example your black minority has lived there almost as long as you and so have the same culture but in Europe their usually pretty new and they have their own different culture which many times scares people. For example in the Netherlands theres alot of Turkish people which have been living there in average 5 years? Well, their youngsters completely different from dutch youngsters, loud and much more aggressive, this scares people.

Well at least this is my point of view...

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Mardeth

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Since this is a thread about Belgium, I guess I should ask...FreeGeeks or another European, do you believe that European racial/ethnic issues at the government, social and public level are better/worse/or equal in magnitude to problems in the US? And why?

Yes and no. The image I have is that racism in the US is more against skin colour but in Europe its more against the culture, for example your black minority has lived there almost as long as you and so have the same culture but in Europe their usually pretty new and they have their own different culture which many times scares people. For example in the Netherlands theres alot of Turkish people which have been living there in average 5 years? Well, their youngsters completely different from dutch youngsters, loud and much more aggressive, this scares people.

Well at least this is my point of view...

Well I was asking more about the magnitude of the problems, not the cause...but this is interesting, too.

I agree with this, I even stated it in another thread. Europe is more homogeneous with a distinct culture. They still want to preserve it and see the foreigners/immigrants as trying to change it or not having the same culture as them. It's just a completely different situation than Canada/US.

I was more interested in the magnitude of it since it seems that Europe has more of a problem than Canada or the US. While both North America and Europe have some similar problems, it seems as if Europe has many right wing radical and anti-foreign or racist parties in many countries, such as the Netherlands, Denmark, France, Austria, etc. They seem to get a sizable amount of votes, too. Then there's the problem with Slovenia. And then special rules and restrictions (although some now defunct) for ethnic citizenship. It seems that it's a fairly hostile environment for someone of a different ethnicity.

A little off topic, but I've found on other forums that people from the Netherlands and Denmark (and a few others) are especially more open to talk about and acknowledge the problems in their countries, than people from places like France and Germany. Maybe because French and German people are a lot more patriotic? I have no idea, but I also see that trend here on P&N.

 

[DaFinn]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Mardeth

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Since this is a thread about Belgium, I guess I should ask...FreeGeeks or another European, do you believe that European racial/ethnic issues at the government, social and public level are better/worse/or equal in magnitude to problems in the US? And why?

Yes and no. The image I have is that racism in the US is more against skin colour but in Europe its more against the culture, for example your black minority has lived there almost as long as you and so have the same culture but in Europe their usually pretty new and they have their own different culture which many times scares people. For example in the Netherlands theres alot of Turkish people which have been living there in average 5 years? Well, their youngsters completely different from dutch youngsters, loud and much more aggressive, this scares people.

Well at least this is my point of view...

Well I was asking more about the magnitude of the problems, not the cause...but this is interesting, too.

I agree with this, I even stated it in another thread. Europe is more homogeneous with a distinct culture. They still want to preserve it and see the foreigners/immigrants as trying to change it or not having the same culture as them. It's just a completely different situation than Canada/US.

I was more interested in the magnitude of it since it seems that Europe has more of a problem than Canada or the US. While both North America and Europe have some similar problems, it seems as if Europe has many right wing radical and anti-foreign or racist parties in many countries, such as the Netherlands, Denmark, France, Austria, etc. They seem to get a sizable amount of votes, too. Then there's the problem with Slovenia. And then special rules and restrictions (although some now defunct) for ethnic citizenship. It seems that it's a fairly hostile environment for someone of a different ethnicity.

A little off topic, but I've found on other forums that people from the Netherlands and Denmark (and a few others) are especially more open to talk about and acknowledge the problems in their countries, than people from places like France and Germany. Maybe because French and German people are a lot more patriotic? I have no idea, but I also see that trend here on P&N.

Re: the magnitude, I think its very difficult to measure who has more problems (North-America vs. Europe). The problems are quite different and the region too...

In Europe, everything some group or politicians or police does in some country gets reported worldwide.
In US, if some group or state rulers or local police does something of similar magnitude in some state, it rarely makes nationwide headlines in US, not to mention rest of the world.

We have to remember, that there are states in US larger than most European countries... If a state in US does something which discriminates some groups/ethnicity, well its just 1 state, no biggy. It will never be reported in any European media. But if country in Europe half the size of this state does something similar, we all know its going to be news all over.

Personally I would like to see a report which considers EU as 1 nation (United States of Europe vs United States of America?)

 

[RabidMongoose]

In Europe, everything some group or politicians or police does in some country gets reported worldwide.
In US, if some group or state rulers or local police does something of similar magnitude in some state, it rarely makes nationwide headlines in US, not to mention rest of the world.

Ummm...you have no idea what you're talking about. If a local group did something bad, it very often makes national headlines. News in the US is very critical and reported. I would assume that many European countries are the same.

We have to remember, that there are states in US larger than most European countries... If a state in US does something which discriminates some groups/ethnicity, well its just 1 state, no biggy. It will never be reported in any European media. But if country in Europe half the size of this state does something similar, we all know its going to be news all over.

Personally I would like to see a report which considers EU as 1 nation (United States of Europe vs United States of America?)

Well, if a state does discriminate at the government level, then it would be huge news here. However, I don't think that happens at a large scale. There would be a national uproar if there was.

You are right about the EU as a 1 nation...because Europe has so many countries, it potentially has problems replicated throughout each country.

However, I think that it's undeniable that the magnitude of these problems in Europe is more severe than Canada/North America. I don't think that any openly racist political party would ever receive 10-20% of the popular vote in the US/Canada. There really isn't ethnically based citizenship and so on.

I'm really not sure how the EU as a whole would be any different than considering each individual country.

I'm not sure why some people here like FreeGeeks go insane when anyone mentions something like this. No place is perfect.

 

[DaFinn]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

In Europe, everything some group or politicians or police does in some country gets reported worldwide.
In US, if some group or state rulers or local police does something of similar magnitude in some state, it rarely makes nationwide headlines in US, not to mention rest of the world.

Ummm...you have no idea what you're talking about. If a local group did something bad, it very often makes national headlines. News in the US is very critical and reported. I would assume that many European countries are the same.

Nationwide news yes, but I was talkin worldwide. I follow the news a LOT, and i don't recall in our media headlines like "KKK mugs African-Americans during their meeting in South-Carolina". This MIGHT make it nationwide for you. WILL not be in European media. But if some right wing gangsters in Germany get together and mug some Turks, THAT will be reported all over the world. There is the difference.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: DaFinn

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

In Europe, everything some group or politicians or police does in some country gets reported worldwide.
In US, if some group or state rulers or local police does something of similar magnitude in some state, it rarely makes nationwide headlines in US, not to mention rest of the world.

Ummm...you have no idea what you're talking about. If a local group did something bad, it very often makes national headlines. News in the US is very critical and reported. I would assume that many European countries are the same.

Nationwide news yes, but I was talkin worldwide. I follow the news a LOT, and i don't recall in our media headlines like "KKK mugs African-Americans during their meeting in South-Carolina". This MIGHT make it nationwide for you. WILL not be in European media. But if some right wing gangsters in Germany get together and mug some Turks, THAT will be reported all over the world. There is the difference.

I follow the news a lot, too. I've never really seen 'right wing gangster skinheads mug Turks' in the US media. It might be reported in European media, but it wouldn't be mentioned in popular US media. It's exactly the same with how 'KKK mugs african-americans' apparently won't be reported in popular European media.

I'm not really sure why you're talking about this anyways...we can just look at the facts like the political parties, elections, citizenship requirements or rules, etc. This is where I'm really forming my opinion.

 

[DaFinn]

However, I think that it's undeniable that the magnitude of these problems in Europe is more severe than Canada/North America. I don't think that any openly racist political party would ever receive 10-20% of the popular vote in the US/Canada.

You missed the point... out of a population say 5 million (1 European Country vs 1 US state) it happens that an extremist party might get 10-15% of popular vote. Usually this is based on some popular concern people are scared of, and this party promises to fix.

Are you saying that an extremist party could NOT get 10-15% support in ANY state in US?

Forget about comparing US to a single country, as all threads here seem to be about human rights in EU!
Then you go and pick a country that has severe problems with racism (yes, we have those in EU!).
You pick a country and make it an EU issue, then let us pick a state and make it a US issue.

I've been to US several times, and not all places are the same. Miami was very different to Salt Lake City.
I bet also their prolems are different. We have similar variety in EU, diffrent Countries have different issues.

This is why I would have liked to see EU vs USA comparison. Otherwise its apples vs oranges...

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: DaFinn

However, I think that it's undeniable that the magnitude of these problems in Europe is more severe than Canada/North America. I don't think that any openly racist political party would ever receive 10-20% of the popular vote in the US/Canada.

You missed the point... out of a population say 5 million (1 European Country vs 1 US state) it happens that an extremist party might get 10-15% of popular vote. Usually this is based on some popular concern people are scared of, and this party promises to fix.

Are you saying that an extremist party could NOT get 10-15% support in ANY state in US?

Forget about comparing US to a single country, as all threads here seem to be about human rights in EU!
Then you go and pick a country that has severe problems with racism (yes, we have those in EU!).
You pick a country and make it an EU issue, then let us pick a state and make it a US issue.

I've been to US several times, and not all places are the same. Miami was very different to Salt Lake City.
I bet also their prolems are different. We have similar variety in EU, diffrent Countries have different issues.

This is why I would have liked to see EU vs USA comparison. Otherwise its apples vs oranges...

What about France? 18% voted for Le Pen. The UK? 16% considering voting for the BNP? Both of these countries have large populations.

Even if these other countries are small, it still stands that a large portion of the population is voting for extreme right wing parties. You don't vote for a known racist or a white supremacist group just because you're thinking they'll fix something else. Let's try not to make excuses for populations in all of these countries voting a significant amount for open racists.

I'm not sure why you're saying everything is about the EU and not individual countries. It seems that even this very thread is about one specific country. Most of the threads about these problems in Europe seem to be about individual countries.

Bottom line is that so many countries have so many problems. Group them together, then it's one giant problem. We're talking about radical right wing racist parties in countries ranging from small to large, citizenship requirements or rules specific for ethnicity, other policies specifically against minorities, etc. All of this creates one damn hostile environment.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Mardeth

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Since this is a thread about Belgium, I guess I should ask...FreeGeeks or another European, do you believe that European racial/ethnic issues at the government, social and public level are better/worse/or equal in magnitude to problems in the US? And why?

Yes and no. The image I have is that racism in the US is more against skin colour but in Europe its more against the culture, for example your black minority has lived there almost as long as you and so have the same culture but in Europe their usually pretty new and they have their own different culture which many times scares people. For example in the Netherlands theres alot of Turkish people which have been living there in average 5 years? Well, their youngsters completely different from dutch youngsters, loud and much more aggressive, this scares people.

Well at least this is my point of view...

Yes, that's an excellent way to put it IMO.

 

[CanOWorms]

You pick a country and make it an EU issue then let us pick a state and make it a US issue

I'm the one that initiates most of these human rights in Europe threads. I don't believe I even brought up an article about the EU until Amnesty International released its report that the EU is potentially accelerating human rights problems.

There was a poll in 1997 in the EU. One in three people within E.U. member states told pollsters they were "quite" or "very" racist in 1997. Another third said they held slightly racist views, and the same number described themselves as free of bias. That's pretty bad, and I'd think it would only be even worse nowadays with increasing negative sentiment and the admission of new countries. 67% express racist views!

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Sunner

Originally posted by: Mardeth

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Since this is a thread about Belgium, I guess I should ask...FreeGeeks or another European, do you believe that European racial/ethnic issues at the government, social and public level are better/worse/or equal in magnitude to problems in the US? And why?

Yes and no. The image I have is that racism in the US is more against skin colour but in Europe its more against the culture, for example your black minority has lived there almost as long as you and so have the same culture but in Europe their usually pretty new and they have their own different culture which many times scares people. For example in the Netherlands theres alot of Turkish people which have been living there in average 5 years? Well, their youngsters completely different from dutch youngsters, loud and much more aggressive, this scares people.

Well at least this is my point of view...

Yes, that's an excellent way to put it IMO.

IMO that's too simplified of an approach. For example, there wouldn't be ethnicity-based citizenship requirements then.

 

[Mardeth]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

You pick a country and make it an EU issue then let us pick a state and make it a US issue

I'm the one that initiates most of these human rights in Europe threads. I don't believe I even brought up an article about the EU until Amnesty International released its report that the EU is potentially accelerating human rights problems.

There was a poll in 1997 in the EU. One in three people within E.U. member states told pollsters they were "quite" or "very" racist in 1997. Another third said they held slightly racist views, and the same number described themselves as free of bias. That's pretty bad, and I'd think it would only be even worse nowadays with increasing negative sentiment and the admission of new countries. 67% express racist views!

Look, one thing I suspect is changing this poll results and that is "honesty". Now, you imagine this: Some stranger comes asking you if your a racist and in shame you lie your not. In Europe people are mutch more open to strangers, there are a few tabus. We in Finland go in saunas naked, sometimes women and men together, then go on the streets of our capital only having a towel around our waist. Another example is gayness, its obviously more open here. The list could go on forever...

I honestly am a bit of a racist, I have one black friend (only one in the school of ~400 students) and he is really good guy and I dont even see the skin color anymore, hes one of us. But theres those that make me a racist, for example 3 guys tried to rob my once (they didnt succeed luckily, but got some hits in my head and such), one of them was Indian or something, two other guys were Fins. He was obviously the big boss of them... I have heard numerous examples of Romanian youngsters attacking and beating Fins, usually 5 against 1 or something, and if you resist too much the knives start to fly. (Some may be just urban legends but too many have witnessed it personally to it be all a lie).

I cant help myself, when I see other ethnic groups that seem aggressive, I tend to fear them and where does fear lead to? To the wonderful angerland....

Offtopic: Ive noticed I use alot of examples in my posts .

 

[heartsurgeon]

i've said it in the past...the frogs and the krauts are a bunch of
racist Euroweenies. Now the Belgian's? Sacre Bleu! What is the Euroweenie Union coming to?

But cheer up...we are now a country of war criminals, occupying the middle east.

Ah well, you apparently can't please everyone all of the time..

I fully expect the Democrats to call for Rumsfeld's AND Bush's impeachment any day now, and i can hardly wait for the Hague or some other Euroweenie institution to name Rumsfeld a "war criminal"
Personally, the part i find the most interesting is that one of the people allegedly tortured at the prision oin Iraq, was asking if he could emigrant to the U.S! Even after being tortured, he apparently prefers the U.S way of doing things to the iraq.

i think we've got more outrage and indignation (fueled by the liberals/democrats) in this country over the pictures, than they do in the middle east. over there, that's just business as normal....

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
i've said it in the past...the frogs and the krauts are a bunch of
racist Euroweenies. Now the Belgian's? Sacre Bleu! What is the Euroweenie Union coming to?

But cheer up...we are now a country of war criminals, occupying the middle east.

Ah well, you apparently can't please everyone all of the time..

I fully expect the Democrats to call for Rumsfeld's AND Bush's impeachment any day now, and i can hardly wait for the Hague or some other Euroweenie institution to name Rumsfeld a "war criminal"
Personally, the part i find the most interesting is that one of the people allegedly tortured at the prision oin Iraq, was asking if he could emigrant to the U.S! Even after being tortured, he apparently prefers the U.S way of doing things to the iraq.

i think we've got more outrage and indignation (fueled by the liberals/democrats) in this country over the pictures, than they do in the middle east. over there, that's just business as normal....

Belgians have always been racist. It's probably the most racist country in western Europe.

ummmmmm ok... about the rest of your post...