Racial profiling in reverse?

[Rio Rebel]

I just re-read my post and it may come off pretty condescending. I don't mean it that way.

I truly am glad you're here. I'd rather hear your perspective on some of these issues than sit around and re-inforce each other's cultural assumptions.

 

[glenn1]

<< If you can't take the fact that I look at the other side of story tough, grow up or shut up. >>



I don't have any problem with your responses as long as they are honest and reasonbly well-reasoned. I may disagree, but that's another thing altogether. However, let me ask you in particular Classy, my question from earlier... do you think that 'de-policing' is a good thing or bad, and why?

Let me follow up that question with another. Presume for a moment, for sake of discussion, that there is a causal link between enforcement activity and crimes committed. That is, that 'de-policing' leads to more crime activity, because there is less perceived threat of police intervention towards someone who might otherwise be inclined to commit a crime.

Would there be a 'threshold' where any benefit you assign to 'de-policing' becomes outweighed by an increase in crime rates? And if so, what level of increase would be acceptable in order to achieve the perceived benefits of 'de-policing'?

 

[Pennstate]

On the issues of racial profiling, I strongly disagree with the way that African American leaders have dealt with the issue. It is a fact, with ample statistics, that blacks in America committed 40% of violent crimes with the majority of the victims as blacks as well. However, this problem is not caused by police biase. Trying to blame the high number blacks being incarcerated on racist policing is dangerously overlooking the REAL cause. Two elements that I think contributes to the REAL cause is economics (history has shown that a robust economy always coincides with a drop in crime, while the opposite is true during recession), and the dangerous and violent environment that many blacks reside in. (i.e Having one gang in a community will almost certainly spur another rival gang and etc. As more members are recruited in gangs, the number of crimes committed (and the number of criminals) increases.) Drugs is also a major part of it too. ENding racial profiling is NOT a SOLUTION to this vast and complex problem. It doesn't matter if in 2001, that the number of blacks being pulled over is in exact proportion to its racial make up, because it does not address the underlying problem, which is a grave one. I am not saying that racism is not present in some police officers. However, many factors contribute to this disproportionate &quot;profiling&quot;. First, police are most active in the areas with high crime. Unfortunately, many of these high crime areas also happens to be heavily populated by minorities. Second, you can not deny the fact that blacks account for more crimes committed than their racial make up. POlice are trained to identify suspicious criminal suspects through their body language and facial expressions. If more crimes are committed by blacks, so will the number of suspects that the police identifies. I do not deny that a major part of it also due to the pure fact that the suspects are black. HOwever, I do not believe all of this can be blamed on racism. I think a good part of it is subconcious conditional response that was developed because of the overwhelming statistics. Furthermore, many of these police officers accused of racial profiling are also BLACK!

If I was living in a high crime neighborhood, I would rather have the police department be NEXT TO MY HOUSE!!! African American leaders must ADMITT that crime is a serious problem and focus on solving that problem. Some of such solutions are: more job training programs, better schools, INSTITUTE MORE SECURITY policing in neighborhoods (I don't care if an all-black police force is use to accomplish this.) I know the Nation of Islam have this street patrol program (where its members split into teams that patrol the streets 24 hours a day) that have shown to dramatically reduce crime. Better access to drug/alcohol treatment facilities. CREATE MORE JOBS in Black areas.

Lets face it, focusing on the wrong problem harms credibility when the REAL problems are addressed.


OK, I've rant too much. Time for bed.

 

[Amused]

<< &quot;it's invading our privacy every day in ways that would have our Founding Fathers calling for rebellion.&quot; Jesus, amused, thanks for making my point. Don't you see that's how blacks feel about their situation too. >>



Moonie, any freedom loving person feels that way. But when you point a weapon at a cop and get yourself killed, don't come crying to me about your fourth amendment rights. You gave those up the minute you threatened the cop's life.

 

[Amused]

<<

<<

<< But when a white officer kills a black man he goes free 99.99999999% of the time. Either by hook or crook he goes free. And here's another piece of the story that needs to brought up. This is not usual either >>



Maybe just maybe Classy 99.99999999% of the time the officer is justified in shooting the suspect. Like when he is being shot at or threatened with a deadly weapon. It looks as if you are saying that most of the time the officer is unjustified regardless of the threat and should be punished. You really need to deal with your hate issues and start living in the real world. Don't bother replying i am sure it will be some more of your white hating racist spew that you are so fond of throwing around here. >>



Its funny. Have 3 white friends who are NJ State Troopers. One's a sargeant, one's a detective and other just a patrolman. And my good friend another white dude called me today as a matter of fact to tell me passed his test to get in. Now he has to work on the physical stuff. I am just bringing a different side to the story. If you think all these shootings are justified you are smoking crack. My uncle is a high ranking sargeant at the State Prison here. These people are my friends and family. I love them and want no harm to come to them. Whether they are white or black. I told my boy the last time we was talking that I want him to always come home. Do what he has too, but always remember that the other person has to go home as well. There are just too many freaking mistakes and some of the ones being wheeled in the morgues are innocent. So you and every butt munch like yourself can take your judgement of me and stick up your you know what. If you can't take the fact that I look at the other side of story tough, grow up or shut up. >>



Classy, give us ONE peice of evidence on just ONE of the 15 cases. Just one. You keep demanding that we have to believe they are suspect, yet you can't give one shred of evidence on one case, much less the other 14.

BTW, since the 12 year old black kid that was killed happened to have killed the cop who fatally wounded him(he was black as well), can we rule that case out? I believe we can. So now the number is 14, Classy. Surely if 14 cases are suspect, you can come up with at least ONE that you can prove, right?

 

[skywhr]

black folk should just leave this country and return home or find another country. So that way all of
you can feel safe at night
Where might that be?

I feel safe at night because I am an active user of my right to own a gun.

I have a beautiful niece and nephew who are mixed and I love them dearly and wouldnt trade them for the world. I am not a racist, if your a decent person your a decent person, if your an azzhol3 then your an azzh0l3 doesnt matter if your black white purple whatever!

You are preaching that white cops shoot blacks! No Sh!t, white cops shoot whites, black cops shoot blacks, and black cops shoot whites. Its only racist when a white cop shoots a black person. Why is that?
The one thing that all of the people who are shot have in common is that they were all criminals reguardless of color they were criminals. I think you need to take a step back and realize that there is something other than color.

If I go into a bank and try to rob it and get killed by a white cop, hes doing his job.
If a black man goes into a bank and tries to rob it and gets shot by the same cop its racist.

[edit][sarcasm]So Im white and I dont deserve the free room and board that comes with a long prison sentence, that justifies my death in the attempted robbery. Hes black and lives in the projects so a nice long prison stay is an improvment in his quality of living therefore they should not shoot him and thus deprive him of that luxurious life of free cable meals roof over his head. That f*c*ing white pig of a cop was just trying to keep him from getting ahead? He wasnt doing his job, he certainly wasnt protecting the innocent. He is just a racist pig who likes to kill blacks! [/edit][/sarcasm]

 

[Dually]

Crime is prevented by education, family standards, up bringing, and a okay stabile economic status most of all.

There was a time when there was msotly larger cities with no suburbs and communities where truely communities. In those cities the cops walked the blocks and were visible and that was a much greater deterant. They also were part of the community and were respectful and everyone was respectful back (for the most part, follow me here).

Surban sprawl increased, blue collar jobs went down in number and quality, communities spread out, and now education and morals and ethics are going down hill.

Proactive policing is unconstitutional and undemocratic. There are other ways to adjust crime. Remember crime has gone down and ignore drug crimes cause that issue is still in dispute in our nation.

The biggest problem is with education, ethics, and morals going down hill. The conservatives are right in that regard and we need to address those issues. They hold up religion as the answer and for a logical reason, it has ethics, morals, and it has been in the education department for thousands of years. However it is a violation of the constition to force ones religion on someone or to strip them of it.

There are other ways to instill morals in a community besides religion. There are real answers to education and ethics in this nation and they can be instilled.

 

[classy]

Glenn1 de-policing would be a good thing. There is too much emphasis placed on staking out black neighborhoods for crime. I just have to laugh. Because whites today do just as many drugs, drink just as much alcohol, beat their families and wives and steal just as much as black people. No you may not find drug dealers on the corners and shootings in those neighborhoods, but you'll find just the same trash none the less. You'll find the nightly crack head and heroin addict in the plush neighborhoods. You'll find the many white teen partys where there is enough drugs to get half of DC high. But you never hear of preventative patroling in those neighborhoods. Why? They are white plain and simple. No other reason. Sure there is more crime in those poor neighborhoods and they are run down and exposed. But the in so called good neighborhoods the police don't go there unless someone calls. Over policing has created a myth I believe. You can find crime anywhere. I mean anywhere. Outside of the drug dealers on the corner, that have their usual shoot outs, the people in America both black and white are the same. Drugs are destroying whites just as quick as blacks. Alcoholics driving drunk can be found in every neighborhood everyday. And if you think that is not happening you're kidding yourself. I'll find the report, but white teen drug use is on the rise. Where believe it or not black teen drug use is on the decline. You see the problem is we know whats going on in the black neighborhoods, cause they are there to always see it. But the white neighborhoods go un-supervised for the most part. I bet any amount of money in any of your hoods I'll find one or more people within two or three houses that's either a drunk or druggy. They'll catch those kind of people in the black hoods but the white hoods they'll stumble in and out undiscovered. I want the police to do their job and they should. If you have to shoot to kill then so be it. But please lets think about the life on the other end of that barrel and let's start making sure we police all neighborhoods.

 

[glenn1]

great post Classy

Follow on question to your post... would you perhaps think it preferrable (as well as fairer) to raise policing/crime prevention efforts in all neighborhoods, rich or poor, black or white, etc. Or, to put it another way, is policing in and of itself the problem at this point, or is the problem unequal application of policing standards for different areas?

 

[classy]

<< great post Classy

Follow on question to your post... would you perhaps think it preferrable (as well as fairer) to raise policing/crime prevention efforts in all neighborhoods, rich or poor, black or white, etc. Or, to put it another way, is policing in and of itself the problem at this point, or is the problem unequal application of policing standards for different areas? >>



I don't think policing itself is the problem. They have a reason to police there more, because lets face it there is more &quot;open&quot; crime happening there. Here is scenario. Let's look at what's happening and what I believe should be happening. You got 14 cars on patrol. I venture to guess 10-12 of those cars are spending most of their night in minority neighborhoods. Now do you think that this would lead to more arrests of minoritys vs whites? Thats the problem with racial profiling. If you are only looking for and patroling areas based on race, of course your numbers for crime for minoritys are going to be more vs whites. Not because they are committing more crime necessarily, but instead being watched more frequently. Crime is everywhere. But if you took those same 14 cars and had only 7-8 maybe in the minority neighborhoods and had some of the so-called no crime areas patrolled, I bet without a doubt you'll find some white crime as well. You'll get no arguement from me that you have more crime in black hoods than any other.

But let me give my opinion on the crime issue. I believe the number reason for crime is drug abuse. It has just literally destroyed the black neighborhoods and now has expanded to even begin destroying white neighborhoods as well. But the differnece between the blacks and the whites is the money factor, not because one is more moral than the other. Whites are no more moral than blacks and vice versa, its a lie that is put forth with bloated numbers. Most whites have better education and thus better jobs. So even though the doctor who has the $100 a day habit is not likely to commit petty crime to support his habit. Versus the black guy who was making $20,000 a year who also developed a $100 a day habit. Both are stupid and neither one is better than the other. But the black man will turn to crime more quickly and readily than the white doctor to support his habit. I have said before you can find crime anywhere. Plus to add injury to insult, the brother can't afford to get treatment. Its his fault no less, but is he any less of a human being than the white doctor or school teacher. Nope. As a matter of fact whites are very well known to commit a lot of white collar crime. But how often do you hear of police raids on the local doctor's billing records? You don't. Its clearly each man's choice. Some are able to play with fire longer than others, but eventually end up in the same boat. Many of your drug corners remain in business because the people from the good hoods come there to get their stash. This is reality, not some bunch of numbers, but real everyday life. Its just like us with our PC's. We run real benchmarks and we run theoretical numbers as well. That's why I say the crime numbers are not true in real life. They are scewed. Not totally false but not totally true either. Somewhere in between. Thats my arguement. Not so much who's black or white, but more or less who is really being watched and who's not. Hell you can walk outside today and find a four leaf clover, if you look hard enough.