Race question/comment: Asian is not necessarily Far East

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
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Most of the time, when people say Asian, they are implieing Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Taiwanese. When they say that a certain person is Asian, they imply that he is from one of these countries and looks a certain way. This is just ridiculous, in my opinion. The term "Asian" can be used to describe Israelis, Russians, people from India, Pakistan, Phillipines and many other countries in the continent.

I have not watched this year's Survivor, but does the "Asian" team look like Far Easterners?

I wouldn't be surprised. All this generalization is just plain stupid.
 

EvilYoda

Lifer
Apr 1, 2001
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huh? I don't know where you get your stereotyping from, but "asians" have always included the southern and western countries to me.
 

r6ashih

Senior member
May 29, 2003
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By your reasoning, it would be rediculous to call people in mexico mexicans because they live in North America and should be called North Americans.

Yes the "Asian" team does look like far easterners.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,111
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Originally posted by: r6ashih
By your reasoning, it would be rediculous to call people in mexico mexicans because they live in North America and should be called North Americans.

:confused:

Isn't raildogg saying the exact opposite? He's saying to not use broad terms on small groups of people.

Originally posted by: EvilYoda
huh? I don't know where you get your stereotyping from, but "asians" have always included the southern and western countries to me.

I don't think I've ever seen Asian used to describe Indians or Arabs even once and Russians are certainly classified as European/white among most people, even if they aren't from European Russia.
 

Rumpltzer

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2003
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I don't understand why Europe gets to be a "continent" when it's clearly part of that giant land mass that also includes Asia. I mean, I'm pretty sure I know who made the maps and decided on the continents, but I'm not sure it's right.

I think India, some of the countries around it, and maybe all or part of the Middle East need to get their own "continent". It's not clear to me what I should do with Russia...



Let me redraw the maps and come up with a new system. I'll then storm the parliment with ten tanks, declare martial law, and make my new maps the end all, be all.
 

dwcal

Senior member
Jul 21, 2004
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East Asians used to be called Orientals until it became un-PC in the 80's. So Americans often use Asian to refer to East Asians separate from Indians and Middle Easterners. The British still say Oriental, and to them Asian means Indian or Pakistani.
 

r6ashih

Senior member
May 29, 2003
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Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy
Originally posted by: r6ashih
By your reasoning, it would be rediculous to call people in mexico mexicans because they live in North America and should be called North Americans.

:confused:

Isn't raildogg saying the exact opposite? He's saying to not use broad terms on small groups of people.

------------------------
Edit: format

No, He says it is rediculous to imply someone is Asian by their looks(hair and skin etc), and that "Asian" can be used to describe Israelis, Russians, people from India, Pakistan, Phillipines and many other countries in the continent.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
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The use of the term "Asian" varies from country to country. In the US, Asian generally does mean Eastern Asian. In some countries such as the UK, Asian implies someone from South Asia.
 

Snapster

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2001
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Originally posted by: dwcal
East Asians used to be called Orientals until it became un-PC in the 80's. So Americans often use Asian to refer to East Asians separate from Indians and Middle Easterners. The British still say Oriental, and to them Asian means Indian or Pakistani.

No we don't. Asian to me includes Indian, Pakistan etc as well as the far east.

- A Brit
 

Syringer

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
19,333
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This is always such an idiotic argument. Technically asians would include everyone whose ethnicity is from someone within the asian region, but in general that is not the case.

What about blacks being referred to as African-Americans? Technically this includes South Africa which includes plenty of whites.

When someone refers to someone as European they usually refer to Western European countries, but not the eastern ones. Technically this is wrong, but it happens.

And when I was in England, "Asian" music stations usually play indian music..
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: r6ashih
By your reasoning, it would be rediculous to call people in mexico mexicans because they live in North America and should be called North Americans.

Yes the "Asian" team does look like far easterners.
You need to look up Mugs' sig, stat.

 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: Syringer
What about blacks being referred to as African-Americans? Technically this includes South Africa which includes plenty of whites.
Hell, one of the most prominent countries in Africa is Egypt.

 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
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Originally posted by: r6ashih
By your reasoning, it would be rediculous to call people in mexico mexicans because they live in North America and should be called North Americans.

Yes the "Asian" team does look like far easterners.


You fail at analogies.

Mexico is a country, which is more specific than North America. Asia is a massive continent, which is much less specific than Taiwan, China, Japan, etc.

He is saying that it's better to be more specific since stating what continent someone is from doesn't tell you much at all.
 

PlatinumGold

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
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Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy
Originally posted by: r6ashih
By your reasoning, it would be rediculous to call people in mexico mexicans because they live in North America and should be called North Americans.

:confused:

Isn't raildogg saying the exact opposite? He's saying to not use broad terms on small groups of people.

Originally posted by: EvilYoda
huh? I don't know where you get your stereotyping from, but "asians" have always included the southern and western countries to me.

I don't think I've ever seen Asian used to describe Indians or Arabs even once and Russians are certainly classified as European/white among most people, even if they aren't from European Russia.


russians are referred to as EuroAsians as most of russia is in asia.

an asian is any person that is from the continent of Asia. that should be simple enough.
 

Turin39789

Lifer
Nov 21, 2000
12,218
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Originally posted by: Syringer
This is always such an idiotic argument. Technically asians would include everyone whose ethnicity is from someone within the asian region, but in general that is not the case.

What about blacks being referred to as African-Americans? Technically this includes South Africa which includes plenty of whites.

When someone refers to someone as European they usually refer to Western European countries, but not the eastern ones. Technically this is wrong, but it happens.

And when I was in England, "Asian" music stations usually play indian music..

South Africans are not Americans, and therefore are not African-American

 

makken

Golden Member
Aug 28, 2004
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from wikipedia:
"Asian" in Western countries

"Asian" in Australia

On the 2006 Australian Census the following groups contain the word Asian in them

"North-East Asian"
"South-East Asian"
"Central and Southern Asian"
Main article: Asian Australian
Although in Australia Asian typically refers to East Asians,[citation needed] the Australian Census includes many more regions of Asia in its official definition. Defined by the 2006-2011 Australian Census, three categories have the word Asian included in their name: "Central and Southern Asians", "South-East Asians" and "North-East Asians". Russians and Middle Easterners are not considered to be Asians in the 2006-2011 Australian Census. Russians are classified with "Southern and Eastern Europeans" while Middle Easterners are classified with "North African and Middle Easterners". [2]

"Asian" in the UK and Anglophone Africa
Main article: British Asian
In the United Kingdom and certain parts of Anglophone Africa, especially East Africa, the term "Asian," though it can refer to the continent of Asia as a whole, is more commonly associated with the people and cultures of South Asia.[citation needed] This includes modern-day India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka. Those of East Asian origin, such as the Chinese or Vietnamese (referred to as Oriental in the UK and the Commonwealth), are usually not included in the term. This is reflected in the "ethnic group" section of UK census forms, which treat "Asian" and "Chinese" as separate (see British Asian).[3]

The term "Desi" is also often used by the South Asian diaspora around the world, including in the UK, US, and Africa, to refer to another South Asian person.[4]

Many Chinese South Africans dislike the label "Asian," which they associate with being Indian or South Asian.[citation needed]

The United Kingdom and Anglophone Africa are two places in the Western world where the word "Asian" is used primarily to identify people from the Indian subcontinent. South Asians are usually not seen as "Asian" by appearance in North America in much the same way that East Asians are not seen as "Asians" by appearance in the United Kingdom. Of course, in Asia, the word "Asian" has a more localized definition when describing people by face, and is more inclusive when describing Asians by culture.

"Asian" in Canada
Main article: Asian Canadian
The colloquial term "Asian" in Canada is similar in usage to that of the United States. Since about 1990, it refers to people from East Asia and Southeast Asia such as those from China, Japan, and Korea. It also sometimes includes South Asians. "Asian" is often considered to be a more polite (or, some would say, a more politically correct) alternative to "Oriental." This is partially due to the perception among academics that the term "Oriental" hearkens to a long-outdated, Eurocentric worldview, one in which Europe is Occidental (Western), and Asia is Oriental (Eastern). As a further subclassification, West Asia is the "Near East" (or Middle East) and East and South Asia comprise the "Far East." These terms are set geographically in relation to Europe, and hence are often considered controversial for their Eurocentricity.

"Asian" in the United States
Main article: Asian American

On the 2000 US Census Asian Americans includes
East Asian Americans
Southeast Asian Americans
South Asian Americans
For purposes of the U.S. Census, the term "Asian" is defined as "people who have origins in the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian Subcontinent".[5] Respondents can also report more specific ancestry, such as Asian Indian, Chinese, Filipino, Korean, Japanese, Malaysian, Indonesian, Vietnamese, Burmese, Pakistani, Laotian, Thai, Bhutanese, and so on, including "Other Asian". Someone reporting these ancestries but no race will be classified as "Asian". Turks, Iranians, Arabs of the Mashriq, Israelis, Central Asians, and the indigenous peoples of Siberia, are "Asians" in the continental sense, but are not currently classified as "Asian" in the U.S. Census.

United States v. Bhagat Singh Thind 261 U.S. 204 (1923)[6] was a case in which the United States Supreme Court decided that Bhagat Singh Thind, a native of India, could not be a naturalized citizen of the United States, despite the fact that a number anthropologists had defined members of the Indian subcontinent as being members of the Caucasian race. The ruling followed a decision in Takao Ozawa v. United States where the same court had ruled that a light-skinned native of Japan could not count as "white", because "White" meant "Caucasian"[7], establishing White and Caucasian to be interchangeable terms for a single people of whom neither Japanese Americans nor Indian Americans are included.[8] Although the restrictions on immigration and naturalization of East and South Asians were later repealed, the practice of classifying East and South Asians in an "Asian" category, but West Asians (whose immigration and naturalization was never restricted) in the "White" category probably has its roots in this period.

According to Sharon M. Lee in her 1998 publication, for many non-Asian Americans in the United States (in 1998) Asian American means Oriental, Chinese American or Japanese American. This is due to the Chinese and Japanese immigrants being the first immigrants into the United States. Today, with the increasing demographic of Korean Americans, South Asian Americans and Southeast Asian Americans the definition among United States citizens of who is Asian American is expanding.[9]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian
 

spacejamz

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
10,938
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on most applications/surveys, Asians and Pacific Islanders are grouped together...

Pacific Islanders include the Phillipines, Samoi, etc...

<--pacific islander :)
 

homestarmy

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2004
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Originally posted by: Syringer
This is always such an idiotic argument. Technically asians would include everyone whose ethnicity is from someone within the asian region, but in general that is not the case.

What about blacks being referred to as African-Americans? Technically this includes South Africa which includes plenty of whites.

When someone refers to someone as European they usually refer to Western European countries, but not the eastern ones. Technically this is wrong, but it happens.

And when I was in England, "Asian" music stations usually play indian music..

And what about African-Americans who have no ties to Africa whatsoever?
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
I consider anyone from Asia, an Asian.

The only thing that bugs me a little are people of Chinese, Japanese, or Korean descent, who use Asian to refer to themselves, and don't consider people from other parts of Asia, like Indians, Asians.

I also don't understand why "Oriental" is considered derogatory ? I don't use the term out of deference, but would like to understand the reason. What is the problem with "the Orient" as a geographical location ?

 

homestarmy

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2004
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artwilbur.com
Originally posted by: Turin39789
Originally posted by: Syringer
This is always such an idiotic argument. Technically asians would include everyone whose ethnicity is from someone within the asian region, but in general that is not the case.

What about blacks being referred to as African-Americans? Technically this includes South Africa which includes plenty of whites.

When someone refers to someone as European they usually refer to Western European countries, but not the eastern ones. Technically this is wrong, but it happens.

And when I was in England, "Asian" music stations usually play indian music..

South Africans are not Americans, and therefore are not African-American

I can think of two non-black african-american friends/acquaintences. One from South Africa and one from Syria (I think).

I wish that I was in that group so I could take advantage of African-American scholarships. And when I was denied, I would accuse them of being racist.

Of course, you can't be racist against someone with white skin in this country, so nothing would happen though...
 

makken

Golden Member
Aug 28, 2004
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Originally posted by: Tom
I consider anyone from Asia, an Asian.

The only thing that bugs me a little are people of Chinese, Japanese, or Korean descent, who use Asian to refer to themselves, and don't consider people from other parts of Asia, like Indians, Asians.

I also don't understand why "Oriental" is considered derogatory ? I don't use the term out of deference, but would like to understand the reason. What is the problem with "the Orient" as a geographical location ?

"Asian" is often considered to be a more polite (or, some would say, a more politically correct) alternative to "Oriental." This is partially due to the perception among academics that the term "Oriental" hearkens to a long-outdated, Eurocentric worldview, one in which Europe is Occidental (Western), and Asia is Oriental (Eastern). As a further subclassification, West Asia is the "Near East" (or Middle East) and East and South Asia comprise the "Far East." These terms are set geographically in relation to Europe, and hence are often considered controversial for their Eurocentricity.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
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That doesn't answer my question, I'm not interested in "academics" viewpoint.

But in response to that quote, we are talking about words in the English language..why shouldn't geographical references be in relation to Europe ?

that is the home of the English language. I don't expect the Chinese language to not refer to China as a geographical reference point..

And what is wrong with referring to Europe as Western, and the Orient as Eastern ? That's the direction the world rotates..