R9 300 cards listed in new driver - R9 370 is a rebrand

[RussianSensation]

Sorry to revivify an old thread, but while looking up something else I found information that might be relevant.

Most people have forgotten it by now, but back in early 2012, AMD rebranded a bunch of old VLIW-based GPUs for the OEM market.

AMD re-branded the entire HD7000M into HD8000M series with only a small 50Mhz bump in GPU clock on the 8970M vs. 7970M. HD7970M was launched on May 1, 2012 but it already had Enduro, UVD 3.0 video decoder, ability to support up to 6 displays, built in HD Audio processor, PowerTune and ZeroCore. Coincidentally the R9 M290X is the exact same product as HD8970M and brought nothing new over the HD7970M other than the aforementioned 50mhz jump in GPU clock via GPU Boost.

However, there lies the problem for the re-branding theory. AMD has already re-branded HD7000 into 8000 and then into R9 M290X. That's 3 generations of re-branded Pitcairn in a row. What are the chances that AMD will use Pitcairn for 4th generation in laptops? I think it's possible for lower-end mobile parts but I would imagine R9 M380/380X/390/390X mobile chips would be new products, not Pitcairn. Perhaps we will see a revised fully unlocked 2048 SP Tonga or maybe something radically different.

Desktop R9 285 is only roughly as fast as a 970M, which means using a cut-down Tonga in laptops will not get AMD past R9 M295X which defeats the purpose of a new generation against 970M/980M as NV is bound to refresh those series 2H of 2015 or 1H of 2016 and AMD will have nothing to compete against them.

If AMD's R9 300/300M are comprised of 95% laptop/desktop re-brands with 0 improvements from Spring 2012-November 2013, they might as well not even launch anything besides desktop R9 390/390X. Otherwise, they are just wasting time. My issue with the entire re-branding theory is if it's true, why didn't AMD launch everything besides R9 390/390X on Jan 1-15, 2015 and just called it R9 300 series? After all, if all you are doing is re-branding 2012-2013 products, why do you you need 1.5 years since R9 200 series launched to re-brand them? Notice how HD7000M/8000M re-brands were both announced in January because OEMs asked for "new" series to sell? Now notice how AMD didn't announce a single R9 300 series product. This is in-congruent with the "90% of R9 300 series are re-branded cards theory" because OEMs would have much preferred to sell R9 300 cards as early as possible in 2015 vs. trying to market old R9 200 ones in much the same way AMD was pressured by OEMs to re-brand HD7000M into 8000M and then R9 M200.

 

[xthetenth]

Also, aren't the measures AMD and its partners taking to clear existing inventory also incongruent with rebranding, since if everything was a rebrand the old parts' position wouldn't be hurt much and/or the parts could be sold as the rebrand?

 

[Qwertilot]

The cynical answer is not if they're planing to use the rebrand to (re)gain market prestige/price levels

More realistically, even if they are basically rebrands they've probably done a bit of fiddling with them in one way or another, so not quite the same.

 

[RussianSensation]

The cynical answer is not if they're planing to use the rebrand to (re)gain market prestige/price levels

More realistically, even if they are basically rebrands they've probably done a bit of fiddling with them in one way or another, so not quite the same.

The re-branding FUD could be a smear campaign. You never know if it was started by someone from a certain focus group or by a site that got paid/received favourable treatment (review samples) from the competitor.

Looking at the leaked slides, if they are true, 390X card looks nothing like a re-brand.

 

[xthetenth]

The cynical answer is not if they're planing to use the rebrand to (re)gain market prestige/price levels

More realistically, even if they are basically rebrands they've probably done a bit of fiddling with them in one way or another, so not quite the same.

Right, but their performance levels would be competitive with their successors, so the new cards wouldn't render them unsaleable at that price point to where they need to get totally cleared out.

 

[tweakboy]

I bet its priced what a 970 is. Thats how they compete,, take your losses but get a wins too.

 

[JDG1980]

The cynical answer is not if they're planing to use the rebrand to (re)gain market prestige/price levels

How is that supposed to work? AMD's cards are having a hard enough time competing at their existing price levels. Slapping new stickers on the same 2012-vintage chips isn't going to magically increase their appeal. To the contrary, there's a good chance AMD will be crucified by the review sites if it tries this. The reception of the R9 2xx rebrands was lukewarm enough, and that was a year and a half ago.

More realistically, even if they are basically rebrands they've probably done a bit of fiddling with them in one way or another, so not quite the same.

But AMD has already done this, and the results were questionable. The R7/R9 2xx series has worse power consumption than the corresponding 7xxx cards, because AMD juiced up the voltage to raise the clocks. A 7850 is much more efficient than a R7 265; a 7950 uses about 180W maximum, compared to 250W max for a R9 280. And Hawaii was overvolted and overclocked from the start so that it could match the original Titan. Trying to push these chips even harder is only going to make performance/watt look even worse compared to Maxwell.

 

[Qwertilot]

Well they've got a 'proper' high performance chip coming now, so they surely don't need to push Hawaii even harder

One of the big things they might very well do is to unwind that over volting from the 2xx series - big efficiency gains of course - while dropping stuff down the stack slightly to compensate.

If they do that, get a few more features in and maybe get some modest improvement via the process/some refinements could be OK?

 

[Shehriazad]

Again....rebrands can be a good thing...and that the 370 and below won't be new and awesome high end chips is a given...you should be more excited about the other rebrands and the kind of changes they could come with.

Here some potential "rebrands" that could be very nice:
-Tonga - 4GB Version? Raise of clocks while maintaining TDP? Yus!

-Tonga XT - Finally for standard PC users with 3-6GB? Hell yea!

-Hawaii XT - Adding some more stuff to the backend, raising clocks, optimizing voltage/tdp? Why not if the price is alright????



I'm not even sure why people care for the low end for the spectrum of AMD cards...

280, 285/280X is the middle, 290/X is the upper end....270X is the lower middle...270 to 250 just exist for the sake of existing...anything below should not be bought whatsoever.

I actually expect anything from 310 to 370 to be rebrand gallore of stuff that no one wants, anyway. Cards that exist for the sake of existing.
370X to 380X are going to be the good "rebrands" and 390-390X the new flagships...

 

[AtenRa]

-Hawaii XT - Adding some more stuff to the backend, raising clocks, optimizing voltage/tdp? Why not if the price is alright????

That would not be a rebrand but a new chip.

 

[Shehriazad]

That would not be a rebrand but a new chip.

"new"...eh?

I'm just saying...I also think that the 290X etc will obviously appear again in the 300 lineup...but I think it will be optimized a bit...as AMD had a looooooot of time to work on their 300 lineup.

Either way..to me it just seems clear that 310-370 are just going to be nothing but simple rebrands...because why not? It's not like there is much to be gained in the low end by designing new chips for it...just take what you have and tweak it. AMD and Nvidia have both been doing it for years...but suddenly it's a huge issue.

I mean come on... 50% (HALF!) of the 700 series was rebrands. It had 3/4 generations of GPUs in there. Old Kepler, New Kepler, 1st Gen Maxwell AND Fermi. Just because Nvidia finally reached a new architecture again this time around doesn't suddenly mean that the rampant rebranding doesn't happen...ESPECIALLY in the low end.

 

[showb1z]

What's all this rebrand nonsense about? You can interpret everything since the 7970 as rebrands if you want. It's all GCN with some tweaks.
It's pretty simple really. If there's any change in the silicon, it's a new chip and it's not a rebrand.

 

[Creig]

As long as the price/performance ratio of a card is good, what difference does it make if it's a "rebrand" or not? The ultimate purpose of a video card is to render pixels on your monitor. Whether it does so with a brand new GPU or with an older design really makes no difference if you're getting acceptable performance for the money you spent.

 

[Techhog]

As long as the price/performance ratio of a card is good, what difference does it make if it's a "rebrand" or not? The ultimate purpose of a video card is to render pixels on your monitor. Whether it does so with a brand new GPU or with an older design really makes no difference if you're getting acceptable performance for the money you spent.

Features. GCN 1.0 GPUs don't support True Audio, VSR or Freesync in games, for example.

 

[Enigmoid]

Features. GCN 1.0 GPUs don't support True Audio, VSR or Freesync in games, for example.

I don't see any of those features being really important in the mid range segment.

True Audio is used in 1 or 2 games.

Mid range video cards can't power VSR very well. Much more efficient to try to up the details at a given resolution (1080p).

Free sync monitors are (currently) quite expensive. Not the market for a $150 GPU.

 

[MeldarthX]

I don't see any of those features being really important in the mid range segment.

True Audio is used in 1 or 2 games.

Mid range video cards can't power VSR very well. Much more efficient to try to up the details at a given resolution (1080p).

Free sync monitors are (currently) quite expensive. Not the market for a $150 GPU.

AMD already stated that all their gpus moving forward in 2015 would have all these features - which means - 270s serious and 280 series wont be rebranded.....

I can see tonga used and reworked - as its color compression and tessilation engine is very impressive; better than 290s.....

290s series again I does see being rebranded; as power consumtion; and lack of the color compression and tessalation engine found in Tonga. Now if they reworked the chip to have those; with some power savings..that's a not a rebrand.....more like 5870 to 6870.....

 

[Cloudfire777]

Two new R9 300 cards listed in a recent driver I found.
R9 M380 and R9 M385.

Both are R9 M280X rebrands (Saturn XT, Bonaire XT - Radeon HD 7790)

 

[therealnickdanger]

I don't see any of those features being really important in the mid range segment. Free sync monitors are (currently) quite expensive. Not the market for a $150 GPU.

People have different priorities. The whole point of FreeSync is to allow for systems unable to keep a constant frame rate at YxZ resolution to enjoy tear/stutter-free gaming. With the exception of 4K gaming, the midrange is the perfect target for that*.

*assuming FreeSync monitors get near mainstream pricing (within 25%).

 

[GodisanAtheist]

AMD can launch a new line-up with rebrands while supporting their new features pretty easy:

390(x): Bermuda/Fiji whatever
380(x): Hawaii rebrand
370(x): Tonga rebrand
360(x): Bonaire rebrand

Nothing below that gets the 3xx moniker so no worries there. Maybe a 375/365 with a further cut down Hawaii/Tonga to bridge the gulf in performance or capture die harvests.

Performance moves down the line one notch (just like Nvidia and their 9xx series), AMD saves a truck load of money and they keep their word with all new chips being new stuff compatible (if not fully compatible).

Nevertheless I would love to see some re-engineered dies, if nothing else.

 

[Magic Carpet]

So... how much 370 is faster than prev. gen then? Are we talking about double digit numbers?

 

[ShintaiDK]

People have different priorities. The whole point of FreeSync is to allow for systems unable to keep a constant frame rate at YxZ resolution to enjoy tear/stutter-free gaming. With the exception of 4K gaming, the midrange is the perfect target for that*.

*assuming FreeSync monitors get near mainstream pricing (within 25%).

And that they get much much lower than 40hz. Right now freesync monitors, if anything, requires even better GPUs to keep the minimum above 40 FPS.

So if we have to wait a couple of more years before getting into 30 or below. Then nothing is lost in terms of features

 

[ShintaiDK]

So... how much 370 is faster than prev. gen then? Are we talking about double digit numbers?

The current 370 in the driver is a rebrand. So add what you think +/- clock wise to the old.

 

[ShintaiDK]

AMD already stated that all their gpus moving forward in 2015 would have all these features - which means - 270s serious and 280 series wont be rebranded.....

Unless AMD only stated it for new GPUs being developed. Not rebrands.

And by the looks of it in mobile and desktop drivers, its a rebrand festivitas.

 

[Creig]

Unless AMD only stated it for new GPUs being developed. Not rebrands.

And by the looks of it in mobile and desktop drivers, its a rebrand festivitas.

Instead of launching just one new graphics solution and a load of re-brands, AMD intends to roll-out a whole new range of graphics cards at Computex in early June. At present details about the lineup are not clear, but expect several all-new graphics solutions to be unveiled, whereas some re-branded products will likely show up in the following months.

http://www.kitguru.net/components/g...-its-radeon-r9-300-series-lineup-at-computex/

So no, it doesn't look to be a massive rebrand-a-palooza. I don't doubt some will be rebrands, but it appears that the cards we'll most be interested in (high end) will be new designs.

 

[RussianSensation]

So if we have to wait a couple of more years before getting into 30 or below. Then nothing is lost in terms of features

Except there are already working 30Hz capable FreeSync monitors. Since FreeSync just launched, don't you think it's reasonable to wait 1.5-2 years to see next wave of models? After all, it took 1.5 years just to get less than 10 GSync monitors on the market.....

And by the looks of it in mobile and desktop drivers, its a rebrand festivitas.

Yup, and AMD will re-brand 2011 GPUs in 2016 too. The 512GB/sec HBM with 1/2 DP compute for 2016 APUs is just a made-up PowerPoint presentation test used to hire summer interns.

I still remember how you kept insinuating that AMD can't improve performance/watt on 28nm and implying that they will just re-brand 290X and be stuck with that level of performance until 2016 since only NV can improve perf/watt and make architectural advancements. Will make sure to revisit this point when R9 390 series launches.

As I already said, it's not a question of IF R9 390X will smoke your 980 but a question of by how much.