R9 290X Variance

[Skurge]

More reviews show that press cards are performing better than the retail cards, but this review is a little more interesting.

http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-radeon-r9-290x-press-sample-versus-retail_129583

Page 3 is where the fun starts. What do you guys think?

 

[SiliconWars]

Why they couldn't just slap a decent bloody cooler on it is beyond me, but it's just quiet mode again and I doubt anyone buying the card will be using it in that mode.

 

[ginfest]

The R290X is a hot loud card. Based on this article, it's obviously the press samples were "seeded" to garner good reviews and show the card in the fastest possible light. Just another in a long line of good products relegated to 2nd place/choice as far as video cards go. And with Mantle over-hyped with no tangible real world advantage, AMD falls short again.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Not much to say really since its so obvious. Review sites should delist all press cards result and start all over with retail cards.

 

[MeldarthX]

More reviews show that press cards are performing better than the retail cards, but this review is a little more interesting.

http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-radeon-r9-290x-press-sample-versus-retail_129583

Page 3 is where the fun starts. What do you guys think?

I smell bs - there are so many things not reported; still doesn't explain other sides that did the same teams and found no difference between their test 290x and retail.....

Also most users at OCUK - not reported this at all; Tom had a bad card - this - way to easy to see a set up when there is a lot of data already out there that say different.

unfortunately so much not reported; why this looks like a set up. Maybe not; but I don't see AMD doing something like that.....Nvidia yea....but who knows......

Warning issued for thread crapping.
-- stahlhart

 

[blackened23]

Not much to say really since its so obvious. Review sites should delist all press cards result and start all over with retail cards.

I'd have to agree in this case. People are buying cards based on misinformation, the retail cards are throttling significantly more based on data presented by both Tom's and Legitreviews.

The performance drops in those benchmarks at LR are alarming to say the least - the card dips in performance with each run. Runs fine when cold, performance nosedives when hot.

Look at this - Essentially, a 290X is performing closer to a GTX 770 here due to throttling. Do people really wonder why nvidia still sells a LOT more cards despite their slightly higher price? They are higher quality products that don't have these types of problems. You'll pay more but you WILL NOT deal with this type of variability nonsense. Someone needs to petition AMD to fix their crap.

It's kinda sad because the Hawaii chip has the potential to be good, but AMD completely missed out on that due to questionable design decisions.

 

[SiliconWars]

There's a very easy explanation.

AMD ships cards to shops and OEM's long before reviewers get their grubby hands on them. Clearly they've had a tight schedule and the small delay before launch was even more proof that AMD had jumped the gun with this.

Their turbo implementation is so highly dependent on temperatures that they just didn't realise how much the reference cooler and bios was holding it back. They were targeting the 780 and 770 (with the 290X and 290 respectively) but realised that simply based on temps and a tighter bios they could beat Titan and the 780 respectively instead. All that they needed was an updated bios...but they'd already shipped the initial batch of cards with the slower bios.

So yes very annoying if you bought one, personally I'd update the bios and RMA it if it didn't work. There is no conspiracy here though, it's just AMD's typical bad planning and inherent ability to shoot themselves in the foot at work.

I still believe most people would either have got an aftermarket cooler or will be running it on uber mode anyway. Pretty sure it affects a tiny minority of people and rerunning the benchmarks won't make a difference anyway Shintai (except on Anandtech who would be alone in the entire web in benching on quiet mode :whiste.

 

[blackened23]

Anandtech is alone, nope. Guru3d, techspot, PCper, techreport, I could go on. I'm sure AMD would love to pull the wool over people's eyes with golden press cards but fortunately, the truth has come to light.

 

[SiliconWars]

Erm, "golden press cards" that perform the same as retail with simply an updated bios?

And just to nip the rest of the incoming FUD in the bud before it starts.

It should be noted that this performance variance is really only significant in quiet mode as that is when the new AMD PowerTune technology is busy trying to keep the card quiet.

 

[blackened23]

So those people who bought 290X cards and don't scan the web daily for updates like this? Well I sure feel bad for those guys. They bought a card that significantly underperforms, all because AMD can't fix their crap. Consumers shouldn't have to scan the web every day for supposed Bios updates.

I guess you CAN run the card in dust buster mode to eliminate the problem, though. Like I said. This is why people buy nvidia despite the higher price. You don't deal with stupid nonsense like this, you get consistent performance out of the box without the circus act. This is something that AMD needs to replicate - they need a green light program to ensure AIBs are doing their job, and they need to improve the user experience. Sadly, I don't see AMD ever focusing on quality in that manner.

 

[SiliconWars]

Like I said, who is buying this card and running it in quiet mode anyway?

 

[Shmee]

Like I said, who is buying this card and running it in quiet mode anyway?

This. I don't see what the big deal is.

 

[p_monks33]

Careful, the AMD faithful will come in swinging quick, I currently run an AMD card, and do so happily, I tried to make the jump to the R9 290 and ended up returning it. I had people on my case about how this card is designed to run @ 95+ degrees, why would you return a card that is within spec? Well this was the reason right here, I am glad some review sites are going back and looking into this. My card would throttle after 15-20 minutes in Bioshock to the point that I thought I was having screen tearing due to the amount of FPS variance. I would monitor temps and clock speeds and see them go from 80c -95+ and the frequency would drop to low 700s down from the advertised 947 if I didn't crank fan speed up to a constant 75%.

 

[Shmee]

Careful, the AMD faithful will come in swinging quick, I currently run an AMD card, and do so happily, I tried to make the jump to the R9 290 and ended up returning it. I had people on my case about how this card is designed to run @ 95+ degrees, why would you return a card that is within spec? Well this was the reason right here, I am glad some review sites are going back and looking into this. My card would throttle after 15-20 minutes in Bioshock to the point that I thought I was having screen tearing due to the amount of FPS variance. I would monitor temps and clock speeds and see them go from 80c -95+ and the frequency would drop to low 700s down from the advertised 947 if I didn't crank fan speed up to a constant 75%.

Were you on uber or quiet? Also, you can make your own fan profiles as well, to cool card as needed. Another thing you could try is undervolting a bit.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Were you on uber or quiet? Also, you can make your own fan profiles as well, to cool card as needed. Another thing you could try is undervolting a bit.

Why does he need to modify his product from default settings to _maybe_ make it work?

 

[Shmee]

You have a good point there, I guess I am just used to tweaking and OCing and stuff so much that I take it for granted

 

[blackened23]

You have a good point there, I guess I am just used to tweaking and OCing and stuff so much that I take it for granted

I'm with you on this schmee, for people like us who are power users we are acclimated to tweaking things and maximizing performance. Yet one must keep in mind that there is a much larger contingent of users out there who don't scan the web daily for information like this - they expect stuff to work to it's potential out of the box, you know? And for those people who just expect it to....just work, AMD is doing a huge dis-service for those folks. Fact of the matter is that Joe average consumer will pop a card in, use the defaults, and get less performance than they should.

4-5 years ago, I was one of those people. I didn't mess with forums and check tech news all that often - I just happily used my cards while being totally oblivious to dual BIOS' and stuff of that nature. I wanted stuff to just work. I think this is the largest contingent of users on the market - most people don't read forums like this, and they don't read tech news on a daily basis. They expect their stuff to just work.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

It's unlikely those people would buy the 290x in the first place.

 

[parvadomus]

Look at this - Essentially, a 290X is performing closer to a GTX 770 here due to throttling. Do people really wonder why nvidia still sells a LOT more cards despite their slightly higher price? They are higher quality products that don't have these types of problems. You'll pay more but you WILL NOT deal with this type of variability nonsense. Someone needs to petition AMD to fix their crap.

It's kinda sad because the Hawaii chip has the potential to be good, but AMD completely missed out on that due to questionable design decisions.

Cmon, a GTX770 is garbage compared to a 290X/290 (even throttling). The reference cooler sucks, we all know it, but YOU CANT NEVER put them on the same box.

I dont know whats the point of this kind of threads, we all know what is happening to Hawaii, and we all know the reference cooler sucks. Just wait for aftermarket versions. Personally I have never bought a reference AMD card, cause I know the cooler is not more than garbage, have you?

PS: the 770's rival is 280X which trades blows with. If NV dont lower prices its cause of their loyal cutomers/fanboys.

Warning issued for inflammatory language.
-- stahlhart

 

[blackened23]

I don't agree. The issue with the 290 and 290X isn't the cooler by itself, it is the new powertune algorithm which dramatically lowers performance in relation to temperatures. This did not happen with the 7970. The 7970 more or less gave you consistent performance even with a reference cooler - AND you could easily use quiet fan speeds without a performance loss.

Just FYI, I owned the 5870, 6970 and 7970, all reference. None of those cards lost 20-25% performance for quiet (~40 or less%) fan speeds - I did not mind the reference cooler ONE BIT with the 7970. Because of the new powertune, it basically necessitates aftermarket cooling or high reference fanspeeds for optimal performance. This also was not the case with the 7970 and prior generation AMD cards - all of those performed consistently without variance even with the reference cooler.

As far as the 770, I wouldn't agree that it is "garbage". It at least performs consistently. Whereas with the 290 you can have variances of 20-25% just depending on the BIOS lottery.

 

[Shmee]

On a side note, I am thinking of getting a custom air cooler. I want to be able to OC, so it needs to be good for handling more voltage. Should be quieter too

Also, it needs to be not to big; crossfire compatible. Also, a decent price would be good.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Zalman?

Or that nzxt (sp?) closed loop kit?


:|

Hard to consider AMD reference after how high Nv raised the bar this gen with the new cooler for 770+.


290x is like putting a really fast engine in a ford pinto. <---- Best car analogy ever.

 

[ShintaiDK]

As far as the 770, I wouldn't agree that it is "garbage". It at least performs consistently. Whereas with the 290 you can have variances of 20-25% just depending on the BIOS lottery.

This is also why you can end up with a 290X performing like a HD7970 in prolonged gaming. Tho the HD7970 will feel better.

 

[Shmee]

Yes, but it was only 430 shipped and it unlocked. Plus much better at mining/DC

 

[p_monks33]

Were you on uber or quiet? Also, you can make your own fan profiles as well, to cool card as needed. Another thing you could try is undervolting a bit.

I tried a custom fan profile, the stock cooler was really that bad. Like GTX 470 bad ( Maybe Worse) I even stripped the TIM and replaced it with some Prolimatech, my card in particular was worse than others I have heard people talk about, but still was inside of AMD's parameters. I too am what I would consider a "Power User" , thus my decision to look past the shoddy cooler, and crank up my speakers while gaming until more waterblocks hit the market. It was bad enough I couldn't wait.