R9 290 vs GTX 780 in Australia.

[Ararat]

Hi guys, I'm looking to pick up a new card to replace my GTX 570, and am deciding between the R9 290, and the GTX 780.

First of all, I live in Australia, so GeForce gaming bundles are out (may have shifted my decision), and for some reason, the BF4 bundle only seems to apply to the 290X, and not the 290.

At the moment, the Radeon is going for around $479, while the GTX 780 is around $599 (before anyone is shocked, prices are in Australian $, and when you take into account exchange rates and the fact that the prices include tax, they match up closely to Newegg prices).

It's been a while since I owned a Radeon, and wanted to know how they were these days in terms of drivers, video quality (this machine doubles as a media centre, not just a gaming pc), whether these cards would be a significant step up from my GTX 570, and which is a better buy overall.

My machine is in a different room, with a wall, as well as a few objects (such as a bookcase) seperating it from me (an HDMI cable, audio cables, and USB cables run through the wall into my room), so the extra noise generated by the 290 shouldn't be much of a factor.

Thanks for any help.

 

[ICDP]

If you can get an XFX, Powercolor or VTX3D R9 290 from early stock they can unlock to R9 290X cards.

In all honesty if noise is not a factor then the fact you are saving $120 is a no brainer. Get the R9 290.

I helped a friend unlock an R9 290 to R9 290X and it is around 10%-15% faster OC vs OC compared to my MSI Gaming GTX780. Minimums are around 30% higher in most games tested. This is on a PC with a CPU slower than mine.

R9 290X 1170/5800
GTX780 1241/6728

If sound was a factor I would be telling you to get a GTX780.

 

[blastingcap]

I would wait for the custom coolers if I were you... most people are.

 

[Ararat]

If you can get an XFX, Powercolor or VTX3D R9 290 from early stock they can unlock to R9 290X cards.

In all honesty if noise is not a factor then the fact you are saving $120 is a no brainer. Get the R9 290.

I helped a friend unlock an R9 290 to R9 290X and it is around 10%-15% faster OC vs OC compared to my MSI Gaming GTX780. Minimums are around 30% higher in most games tested. This is on a PC with a CPU slower than mine.

R9 290X 1170/5800
GTX780 1241/6728

If sound was a factor I would be telling you to get a GTX780.

Yeah, I'm probably getting an XFX 290 (no idea how old the stock is) as it's the cheapest brand at the moment. How much work is involved in unlocking the card, and how risky is it?

 

[DownTheSky]

If only AMD would have chosen not to go El Cheapo on the cooler...

 

[Ararat]

I would wait for the custom coolers if I were you... most people are.

Is that just for noise? And are we talking a week or two here, or is likely to be a month or two? Because my summer holidays are to begin on Friday, and I want to get as much gaming in as possible before my time is no longer my own...

 

[ICDP]

One thing I would add is that the new AMD drivers work fine since they stopped the stupid once per month WHQL release. Now the just release non certified betas and it works much better IMHO. Combine it with RadeonPro and you have a great combo.

I will also add that going from Nvidia to AMD (and vice-versa) will be a big change. Most complaints about drivers are more to do with the GUI rather than lack of options. Everything is so different it should be a massive factor in anyones upgrade choice. If you can force yourself to re-learn how driver profiles etc are done then the change should be relatively pain free.

 

[Techhog]

Australia? Either wait for 290 custom coolers or get the 780. In that heat, the 290 would probably throttle down to 7970-level performance and inconsistently at that.

 

[3DVagabond]

Australia? Either wait for 290 custom coolers or get the 780. In that heat, the 290 would probably throttle down to 7970-level performance and inconsistently at that.

Yeah, because they live in grass huts without AC in Australia. /sarc.

It's a first world country with climate controlled buildings. The 290 will be fine.

If you decide to get a reference 290 from what I've read by some owners just set the fan for a constant 50% while gaming and it holds temps in the low 80's. The stock profile waits for the card to get to 94° and then attempts to hold it there.

 

[Ararat]

One thing I would add is that the new AMD drivers work fine since they stopped the stupid once per month WHQL release. Now the just release non certified betas and it works much better IMHO. Combine it with RadeonPro and you have a great combo.

I will also add that going from Nvidia to AMD (and vice-versa) will be a big change. Most complaints about drivers are more to do with the GUI rather than lack of options. Everything is so different it should be a massive factor in anyones upgrade choice. If you can force yourself to re-learn how driver profiles etc are done then the change should be relatively pain free.

I don't mind re-learning GUIs, it's just that with the last Radeon I owned, the videos were quite washed out in WMC, and it took some hunting, and some registry tweaks to fix it (not completely, but enough for it to not bother me). It really shouldn't be necessary on a $500 piece of hardware, it's not as if watching videos is some niche activity.

One question regarding AMD's drivers, is it possible to force a certain game to run at a certain resolution through the drivers? I've always wished that my GPU drivers could do that...

I'm sure they'll have it figured out, it is 2013 after all...

 

[Silverforce11]

Australia? Either wait for 290 custom coolers or get the 780. In that heat, the 290 would probably throttle down to 7970-level performance and inconsistently at that.

I have 2 R290, in the Aussie heat now in summer, they don't throttle in games, 47% fan speed is good enough to keep them cool, plus they suck out all the hot ambient air from the case as well. 47% isnt "loud" for me, 55% is definitely loud though, but it varies depending on your rig and sensitivity.

They do throttle hard mining coins with 47% fanspeed, it goes all the way down to 662mhz.

OP, since noise isn't a factor, the reference cooler is actually very good since it keeps both VRM1 and 2 very cool, 55% fan speed and your temps will be around 80C in games, very acceptable and at those temps, its going to use ~40W less than if it ran hot at 95C.

 

[Ararat]

I have 2 R290, in the Aussie heat now in summer, they don't throttle in games, 47% fan speed is good enough to keep them cool, plus they suck out all the hot ambient air from the case as well. 47% isnt "loud" for me, 55% is definitely loud though, but it varies depending on your rig and sensitivity.

They do throttle hard mining coins with 47% fanspeed, it goes all the way down to 662mhz.

OP, since noise isn't a factor, the reference cooler is actually very good since it keeps both VRM1 and 2 very cool, 55% fan speed and your temps will be around 80C in games, very acceptable and at those temps, its going to use ~40W less than if it ran hot at 95C.

Thanks all. Yeah, I think 55% should be fine, even 60% (that being said, I've not actually heard it), but given that it's in a different room, in a very well ventilated full tower case with ~10 HDD's, I don't think I'll notice.

I think it's a good idea to set it to get on top of the temperatures early.

Also, to the chap a few posts up, having spent a fair bit of time in LA, I think Melbourne's weather is cooler. In fact, I'd call LA winters outright warm, whereas I freeze my arse off down here, with daily maximums of 10-14C in July. But of course, all things are relative, I would imagine anyone living in Canada or London would laugh at me thinking that that was cold.

 

[ICDP]

I don't mind re-learning GUIs, it's just that with the last Radeon I owned, the videos were quite washed out in WMC, and it took some hunting, and some registry tweaks to fix it (not completely, but enough for it to not bother me). It really shouldn't be necessary on a $500 piece of hardware, it's not as if watching videos is some niche activity.

One question regarding AMD's drivers, is it possible to force a certain game to run at a certain resolution through the drivers? I've always wished that my GPU drivers could do that...

I'm sure they'll have it figured out, it is 2013 after all...

That feature is not something that can be done through profiles. To be honest it wouldn't be workable because games come with their own res settings.

As for unlocking to R9 290X check this thread. It's a simple task and very easily done. XFX say it invalidates the warranty but as long as you re-flash back to R9 default BIOS before RMA they would never know. This isn't overclocking your R9 290, or even running fused off broken parts of the GPU. These are actual 100% R9 290X cores simply sold as R9 290s to make up stock.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1443242/the-r9-290-290x-unlock-thread

 

[ICDP]

Thanks all. Yeah, I think 55% should be fine, even 60% (that being said, I've not actually heard it), but given that it's in a different room, in a very well ventilated full tower case with ~10 HDD's, I don't think I'll notice.

I think it's a good idea to set it to get on top of the temperatures early.

Also, to the chap a few posts up, having spent a fair bit of time in LA, I think Melbourne's weather is cooler. In fact, I'd call LA winters outright warm, whereas I freeze my arse off down here, with daily maximums of 10-14C in July. But of course, all things are relative, I would imagine anyone living in Canada or London would laugh at me thinking that that was cold.

Lol, yeah. Here in Belfast 10-14c = short sleeved T-shirt with a light summer coat weather

 

[Ararat]

That feature is not something that can be done through profiles. To be honest it wouldn't be workable because games come with their own res settings.

As for unlocking to R9 290X check this thread. It's a simple task and very easily done. XFX say it invalidates the warranty but as long as you re-flash back to R9 default BIOS before RMA they would never know. This isn't overclocking your R9 290, or even running fused off broken parts of the GPU. These are actual 100% R9 290X cores simply sold as R9 290s to make up stock.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1443242/the-r9-290-290x-unlock-thread

Thanks for that. I'll have to think about whether the extra 4% from the extra CU is worth it, compared to a simple overclock with the fan set to 55%.

Considering my display is 1080p, I doubt there is currently any game that will pose a challenge to even a stock 290 at the moment?

 

[Malik2981]

I'd pickup a R9 290 and call it a day

 

[guskline]

I've been Nvidia in all 3 rigs but with that choice and prices the R9 290 would be my choice.

 

[Gloomy]

Mine doesn't throttle in games either. Usually caps out at 46% fanspeed.

Mining LTC, though, it reels back and forth between 720KH/s and 899 KH/s, nothing an undervolt won't fix

 

[RussianSensation]

Australia? Either wait for 290 custom coolers or get the 780. In that heat, the 290 would probably throttle down to 7970-level performance and inconsistently at that.

Why does this incorrect information keep getting repeated? 290 and 290x do not throttle if you force a manual fan profile or increase fan speeds. They only throttle if the fan speed is at a certain level / depending on the GPU temp, you can just raise the fan speed and remove all throttle. The OP already said that noise is not a factor since the PC will be in another room. Do you think the GPU will be exposed to 45*C ambient temperatures?

OP, if customs resolutions are important, I would go with the 780, otherwise R9 290 all the day given the price difference and lack of game bundles for you. As far as media IQ, Radeons have been exceeding NV for a while in that regard. 3D video IQ is class leading actually. The differences are minor though. Generally AMD cards tend to have brighter colours and better contrast out of the box and it is NV cards that require adjustment. Full RGB via HDMI is also completely broken on NV cards.

If you want to use your GPU for media center services via HDMI, NV is not even an option if you want accurate colours.

 

[Teizo]

Full RGB via HDMI is also completely broken on NV cards.

I don't know the technical specifics, but I don't think this is true.

All you have to do is enable YCbCr444 and the picture quality is top notch. I will say, however, that standard RGB is a bit lacking. But, if you change the monitor color profile in the NV Control panel...the clarity/color is top notch. And it is no different with Dual Link DVI. I've used both and can confirm. I've also used the RGB tweak in regular RGB mode and it is no different than YCbCr444.

You are not a fan of misinformation, so please be sure to stay true to that.

 

[RussianSensation]

I don't know the technical specifics, but I don't think this is true.

All you have to do is enable YCbCr444 and the picture quality is top notch. I will say, however, that standard RGB is a bit lacking. But, if you change the monitor color profile in the NV Control panel...the clarity/color is top notch. And it is no different with Dual Link DVI. I've used both and can confirm. I've also used the RGB tweak in regular RGB mode and it is no different than YCbCr444.

You are not a fan of misinformation, so please be sure to stay true to that.

I am not spreading misinformation. I've owned plenty of NV GPUs. The YCbCr444 solution doesn't necessarily work for all cases. Even until now this issue continues to be documented and NV has offered no hardware solution. All Kepler GPUs are still crippled.

mda400: "YCbCr is not the native colorspace to Windows. RGB is, so keep it on RGB. YCbCr may be good for movies and video, but its compressed and doesn't looks as good as uncompressed RGB."

lowenz: "Yeah, YCbCr looks terrible with some color gradients."

Supertribble: "ycbcr444 which looks a bit rubbish."
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=360587

This is rarely talked about on our forums of course but NV cards are worse for 3d video viewing and 3d movies/video IQ, and if you have to use HDMI connection, then it's straight away broken out of the box. You need to enable a registry hack to get it to work which is embarrassing if you are buying a $600 videocard and intend to use it for media center purposes.

In OP's case, he also has to pay $120 more for the 780 and doesn't even get the NV's game bundle. He could buy an Accelero III and have a faster GPU for less $ still; plus the ability to Litecoin mine and get the 290 to pay for itself.

 

[el etro]

Why does this incorrect information keep getting repeated? 290 and 290x do not throttle if you force a manual fan profile or increase fan speeds. They only throttle if the fan speed is at a certain level / depending on the GPU temp, you can just raise the fan speed and remove all throttle. The OP already said that noise is not a factor since the PC will be in another room. Do you think the GPU will be exposed to 45*C ambient temperatures?

OP, if customs resolutions are important, I would go with the 780, otherwise R9 290 all the day given the price difference and lack of game bundles for you. As far as media IQ, Radeons have been exceeding NV for a while in that regard. 3D video IQ is class leading actually. The differences are minor though. Generally AMD cards tend to have brighter colours and better contrast out of the box and it is NV cards that require adjustment. Full RGB via HDMI is also completely broken on NV cards.

If you want to use your GPU for media center services via HDMI, NV is not even an option if you want accurate colours.

Seeing my Kelper(GTX 670) and my GCN1(HD 7770) image quality, i can tell you one thing: Radeon image quality is stunning! (Talking of out-of-box configs)

 

[pauldun170]

I guess I'm easy to please.
I haven't noticed any difference in image quality over HDMI between my MSI HD7770 and GTX570.

 

[Teizo]

This is rarely talked about on our forums of course but NV cards are worse for 3d video viewing and 3d movies/video IQ, and if you have to use HDMI connection, then it's straight away broken out of the box. You need to enable a registry hack to get it to work which is embarrassing if you are buying a $600 videocard and intend to use it for media center purposes.

Well, personally I think it is rubbish. That is their opinion, but I think it is being over blown. I've used the hack in regular RGB mode as stated and used YCbCr444...and they are identical (to my eyes). YCbCr444 doesn't oversaturate anything as far as I can tell. All it does is help with the contrast/color...making it richer and fuller.

Now, if you have some crazy uber mode calibration software and get bent out of shape because it isn't exact to the nth degree...that is up to said user. One thing that is for sure, enthusiast can be anal over the littlest things. Not that attention to detail is not important...it is. But, some people like to exaggerate the smallest things to try to become internet heros.

I guess I'm easy to please.
I haven't noticed any difference in image quality over HDMI between my MSI HD7770 and GTX570.

Depends on the monitor, perhaps.

 

[pauldun170]

Well, personally I think it is rubbish. That is their opinion, but I think it is being over blown. I've used the hack in regular RGB mode as stated and used YCbCr444...and they are identical (to my eyes). YCbCr444 doesn't oversaturate anything as far as I can tell. All it does is help with the contrast/color...making it richer and fuller.

Now, if you have some crazy uber mode calibration software and get bent out of shape because it isn't exact to the nth degree...that is up to said user. One thing that is for sure, enthusiast can be anal over the littlest things. Not that attention to detail is not important...it is. But, some people like to exaggerate the smallest things to try to become internet heros.


Depends on the monitor, perhaps.

The monitors used:
NEC 2090UXi
Samsung UN46B? series LCD TV
Samsung 24inch 245 series Monitor

The NEC would probably be the best one to test image quality.
Might test check quality across cards this weekend
(HD7770,HD4830,GTX570,GTX780 and intel HD2000-HD3000)