R580: Here by January and smoking 2 512 7800s in SLI

[Demoth]

Some information is coming out about the R580 since the card has been up and running just fine (unlike the R520) for quite a while inside ATI's labs.

One thing known is the R580 has few production issues and it will actually cost quite a bit less for ATI to mass produce this card over the R520. The fact the card has no issues like the R520 and was actually ready for release and production well before the R520 means there will be little if any delay in the deadline and actual availability.

The team that designed the R580 was the one that did the 9700 pro which is a very good thing.

Rumored performance is a 150% increase over the R520 which means the R580 will get better FPS in a game like FEAR then 2 $700 7800 512 GTXs in SLI. The so called fat pipe technology is the reason for this performance though the card itself is still slated for only 16 pipes. If they decide to go 24 pipes, performance will be even higher, though it is unlikely in this generation.

The name is slated to be Rodin for this series.

Expect a price point of $600 by mid January for this card.

Nothing is confirmed, everything is rumor till actual testing is done, but considering we'll see samples sent and reviews within weeks and a good chance of availibility by January, it makes little sense to get a top end X1800XT or a 7800 GTX at this time.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

dude i doubt that it will be here in january.......they havent even got the R520 out in good numbers yet, theres simply no way theyre gonna release R580 after christmas, and if they did id imagine all those who bought R520's this time around are going to feel like ATI just shoved a 12 inch rampant rabbit up their behind and told them to forget about the reach around.

i know id be pissed if i just spent $600 on a X1800XT only for it to be pummelled 2 months later.

(plus they'd have to do something with all those R520 chips, they'd be seriously out of pocket on those since they would have to start selling them off cheap)

a refresh of current parts could be on the cards though, perhaps they can get it closer to 700Mhz core, with a bit of work over the holiday period

 

[DAPUNISHER]

AT has their RD580 preview up, ATI is going to be owning the overclockers and high-end graphics titles if nV has nothing better than their current flagship offerings out at that time.

 

[Matthias99]

Link to AT preview article

No exact performance numbers, at ATI's request (since it's still a beta product).

A few interesting quotes (all emphasis added):

We took the opportunity while talking with ATI to ask about the crippling delays of the ATI X1800XT and the X1xxx family. There are so many rumors in the market place; we wanted to hear ATI's explanation of why it took so long for X1800XT to make it to market. Was the problem the 90nm die-shrink as many had speculated?

ATI told us emphatically the delays with X1800XT were NOT the result of the die-shrink to 90nm. We were told the issue was a defect in a third-party IP (Intellectual Property) that was used in the x1800XT GPU die. It took ATI quite a while to find and correct this design flaw. Why does this matter? Since this flaw was specifically related to the X1xxx family, design work continued on future video cards, and there were no delays on that front. Development continued on introductions that will follow R520, which means the R580 GPU is still scheduled for launch in January.

So how well does RD580 overclock? We can't quote exact numbers, but we can tell you the RD580 BIOS has not yet been tweaked for memory compatibility or top memory performance. We also used our own known OCZ PC3200 Platinum Rev. 2 dimms in testing since we are very familiar with how they perform. Even with the untweaked BIOS, we still reached overclocks even higher than the excellent performance of the Crossfire AMD Reference board! We can only speculate where this board might end up, but it is already a very exciting overclocker.

We confirmed that the new compositor chips used in X1800XT Crossfire do indeed run fine in Crossfire mode at 2048x1536. ATI tells us there is no limitation in the X1800XT compositor that would prevent even higher resolutions from working as they should.

While the exact performance results achieved comparing X1800XT Crossfire with 7800GTX SLI can not yet be published, we can tell you we benchmarked with F.E.A.R., Quake 4, Splinter Cell - Chaos Theory, Doom 3, Far Cry, and 3DMark05 at 1600x1200 resolution with 4X AA and 8X AF enabled. ATI X1800XT Crossfire won every benchmark over nVidia 7800GTX SLI in these tests.

We also ran standard scores (1024x768) for Aquamark 3, 3Dmark03, and 3Dmark05. Once again Crossfire X1800XT outperformed nVidia 7800GTX SLI in every benchmark.

here is no doubt that the nVidia 7800GTX 512MB, which everyone expected would launch 2 days ago as a 7800GTX Ultra, would likely win a head-to-head performance test as single or SLI when compared with the single X1800XT or Crossfire. However, ATI clearly believes the competitor for X1800XT is the $499 7800GTX and not the $700 7800GTX 512MB. ATI was quite clear they will be introducing a "PE version" of X1800XT to compete with 7800GTX 512.

And the conclusion:

Based on what we have seen in this RD580 preview, the worries at ATI right now are more about the present than the future. Future solutions look very competitive and exciting to the market. ATI seems to be caught in a release "Twilight Zone", but as they work their way through current release nightmares, the future looks as if it could be very bright again for ATI. Certainly the upcoming RD580 Dual x16 chipset, X1800XT Crossfire, and X1800XT PE look more than competitive. Add to that R580 is just around the corner and it looks as if ATI has the goods coming to erase the last nine months of disappointment.

Sounds like a winner if they can get the damn boards into people's hands.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

good news about the compositor chip......now they have a proper dual card solution in terms of capability

 

[jiffylube1024]

It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

If R580 is indeed this close to production, it should have a sobering effect on some people who are lining up to pay $700+ for a 512MB 7800GTX (or two!).

 

[Stoneburner]

BLah blah blah, I can't believe AT can bark about the evolution of ATI chips when i still haven't seen a goddamn grouper based mobo. I want my white pcb
I'm no fanboi but i've been waiting for a proper ATI based chipset for overclocking for a while now and there's still nothing except a flawed DFI board. Maybe the R580 gpu will be about in jan but what does it mean for the RS580? Doesn't the availability of the chipset require mobo makers to actually release it? the rs480 is still not widely available and it was previewed back in june.

I should just get a 7800gt and asus sli32 but with this new info i'll probably wait until january and be dissapointed by delays again NOw i want the blue PCB.

 

[vaccarjm]

lol.....paper launch in January but product not till summer.

Dont kid yourself if you think Nvidia wont be ready to ruin ATI's new card.

Sobering effect? How about the ATI fanbois who waited so long for the 520 only to find very limited inventory then have ATI announce their next paper launch in 2 months.

 

[Stoneburner]

What exactly will NVIDIA ruin the r580 with? Don't overestimate their capabilities and underestimate ATI, the companies are evenly matched really.

 

[erwos]

The whole parent post was a troll, but I'll bite.

R580 sounds nice, but rumor is just that: rumor. Until the cards are in the box on the retail shelf, there's any number of things that can happen. Yields could be low, the fab could burn down, new bugs could be found, and so forth. The whole thing could just be misinformation entirely - after all, if your current product sucks (to be fair, it's more like the X1800 was just really late rather than being totally non-competitive), you'd want the public to believe you'd be back in the game sooner than later.

Beating a pair of 7800GTX 512s in SLI is definitely awesome performance, but it also makes the assumption that these are what it will be competing against. As nVidia has so handily demonstrated with GTX512, they have an uncanny ability to push out new chips when needed.

-Erwos

 

[Wreckage]

And the G80 will come out and pwn the R580.

If only ATI would stop pushing rumors and paper launches and start pushing products.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
And the G80 will come out and pwn the R580.

If only ATI would stop pushing rumors and paper launches and start pushing products.

Do you have any substantiated rumours about the G80 performance, or are you just pulling crap out of your ass?
At least the OP has reference material, ie: the latest Anandtech article (in terms of the R580 being scheduled for a relatively near release at least)

 

[Genx87]

Believe it when I see it.

Rumors are the R580 is supposed to be a 16x3 ALU design or 48 ALUs.
The 7800GTX and 512 are 24x2 already.

The R580 will probably beat the 512 but I dont expect it to smack it around. I also dont expect to see it until next Summer.

 

[Ackmed]

What a poor title name. AT said it was faster, it didnt say by how much. "Smoking" has yet to be proven. Also, link the article you use as a reference.

Originally posted by: vaccarjm
lol.....paper launch in January but product not till summer.

Dont kid yourself if you think Nvidia wont be ready to ruin ATI's new card.

Sobering effect? How about the ATI fanbois who waited so long for the 520 only to find very limited inventory then have ATI announce their next paper launch in 2 months.

Why even say such nonesense? The X1800XL, and X1800XT had good launches. They were not 6 months late like you claim the next one will be. Use some common sense.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: erwos
The whole parent post was a troll, but I'll bite.

R580 sounds nice, but rumor is just that: rumor. Until the cards are in the box on the retail shelf, there's any number of things that can happen. Yields could be low, the fab could burn down, new bugs could be found, and so forth. The whole thing could just be misinformation entirely - after all, if your current product sucks (to be fair, it's more like the X1800 was just really late rather than being totally non-competitive), you'd want the public to believe you'd be back in the game sooner than later.

Beating a pair of 7800GTX 512s in SLI is definitely awesome performance, but it also makes the assumption that these are what it will be competing against. As nVidia has so handily demonstrated with GTX512, they have an uncanny ability to push out new chips when needed.

-Erwos

sorry, the 7800GTX 512 is not a new chip. they clocked the g70 higher and added faster memory. will all due respect to nvidia, they made a great product but it didnt require them to do much work so i was fairly easy for them to "push out" these new cards

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: Demoth
Nothing is confirmed, everything is rumor till actual testing is done, but considering we'll see samples sent and reviews within weeks and a good chance of availibility by January, it makes little sense to get a top end X1800XT or a 7800 GTX at this time.

YOUR TITLE IS MISLEADING: Anandtech used a pair of 7800GTX 256MB for that article. The 512MB version of the 7800GTX totally dominates the X1800XT

Yep, ATI PR has worked on one person so far. The mission was to prevent people from buying GTX 512. "Oh, but we've got NV licked with our NEW product, just wait for it". They're basically calling all the people who bought X1800XT's morons. I think the X1800XT is going to have the shortest product life cycle ever.

NVIDIA: All action, no talk.
ATI: All talk, no action.

 

[Stoneburner]

Actually you are being rather stupid MALG. OP did not base his post on the AT thread, the third guy did. SO he was saying since the r580 is 150% greater than r520 it would smoke the 7800 512's in SLI with a single card!

Learn how to read you dumb fanboi.

 

[vaccarjm]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
What a poor title name. AT said it was faster, it didnt say by how much. "Smoking" has yet to be proven. Also, link the article you use as a reference.

Originally posted by: vaccarjm
lol.....paper launch in January but product not till summer.

Dont kid yourself if you think Nvidia wont be ready to ruin ATI's new card.

Sobering effect? How about the ATI fanbois who waited so long for the 520 only to find very limited inventory then have ATI announce their next paper launch in 2 months.

Why even say such nonesense? The X1800XL, and X1800XT had good launches. They were not 6 months late like you claim the next one will be. Use some common sense.

X1800XT good launch? Were you born yesterday? Seriously.....Not even the biggest ATI Fanboi would cough up to this. And when i say paper launch....i meant the high end cards. Im sure you were smart enough to pick that up. 7800gts and x1800xls are in great quantity.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: vaccarjm

Originally posted by: Ackmed
What a poor title name. AT said it was faster, it didnt say by how much. "Smoking" has yet to be proven. Also, link the article you use as a reference.

Originally posted by: vaccarjm
lol.....paper launch in January but product not till summer.

Dont kid yourself if you think Nvidia wont be ready to ruin ATI's new card.

Sobering effect? How about the ATI fanbois who waited so long for the 520 only to find very limited inventory then have ATI announce their next paper launch in 2 months.

Why even say such nonesense? The X1800XL, and X1800XT had good launches. They were not 6 months late like you claim the next one will be. Use some common sense.

X1800XT good launch? Were you born yesterday? Seriously.....Not even the biggest ATI Fanboi would cough up to this. And when i say paper launch....i meant the high end cards. Im sure you were smart enough to pick that up. 7800gts and x1800xls are in great quantity.

i wouldnt call it a great launch, but they were available in a manner that a reasonable efort would secure you one

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: Demoth
Nothing is confirmed, everything is rumor till actual testing is done, but considering we'll see samples sent and reviews within weeks and a good chance of availibility by January, it makes little sense to get a top end X1800XT or a 7800 GTX at this time.

YOUR TITLE IS MISLEADING: Anandtech used a pair of 7800GTX 256MB for that article. The 512MB version of the 7800GTX totally dominates the X1800XT

Yep, ATI PR has worked on one person so far. The mission was to prevent people from buying GTX 512. "Oh, but we've got NV licked with our NEW product, just wait for it". They're basically calling all the people who bought X1800XT's morons. I think the X1800XT is going to have the shortest product life cycle ever.

NVIDIA: All action, no talk.
ATI: All talk, no action.

no, they are not calling anyone morons. they are saying that the x1800 series ran into some technical difficulties that delayed its launch. However, such difficulties were not encountered with the 580 and therefore, they will release it on schedule

 

[Cooler]

Im glad i still have my x850. 2 months of r520 then r580 ATI must have planed this out to milk all the money they could out of r520.

 

[Wreckage]

So the R520 series has a shelf life of 2 months? Comes out in November and then in January the R580 comes out.... If anything this says don't waste your money on a XT. Not that you can even buy a XT crossfire setup.

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Actually you are being rather stupid MALG. OP did not base his post on the AT thread, the third guy did. SO he was saying since the r580 is 150% greater than r520 it would smoke the 7800 512's in SLI with a single card!

You're the retard, I said read the OP's Thread Title i.e. "R580: Here by January and smoking 2 512 7800s in SLI" which is completely misleading!

Here's the article, last paragraph:

"There is no doubt that the nVidia 7800GTX 512MB, which everyone expected would launch 2 days ago as a 7800GTX Ultra, would likely win a head-to-head performance test as single or SLI when compared with the single X1800XT or Crossfire."

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: Demoth
Nothing is confirmed, everything is rumor till actual testing is done, but considering we'll see samples sent and reviews within weeks and a good chance of availibility by January, it makes little sense to get a top end X1800XT or a 7800 GTX at this time.

YOUR TITLE IS MISLEADING: Anandtech used a pair of 7800GTX 256MB for that article. The 512MB version of the 7800GTX totally dominates the X1800XT

Okay, I think we all agree the thread title is misleading at best (and leaning more towards flamebait).

Takeaways from the AT article:

More/better Crossfire motherboards coming in the next month or two.

X1800XT Crossfire looks good, and in AT's tests seems to beat (presumably stock/256MB) 7800GTX SLI. It's probably slower than a 7800GTX"Ultra" SLI. This is hardly unexpected, since the X1800XT seems to fall between those two cards in terms of overall performance.

ATI says R580 was not set back by the issues with R520, and is 'on schedule' for release in January (which would be a short cycle time). Sounds nice, but they still need to deliver.

ATI is planning an X1800XTPE. Not exactly shocking either.

Regarding other random things that were posted:

(re: R580) lol.....paper launch in January but product not till summer.

ATI's been struggling lately with supply, but they say their manufacturing issues are sorted out. R580's launch should give them a good chance to show whether this is true. I'm hopeful it will go more smoothly than R520 did, if only to turn up the heat on NVIDIA a bit more.

Dont kid yourself if you think Nvidia wont be ready to ruin ATI's new card.

Unless NVIDIA is way further along on G80 than anyone is letting on, I'm not sure what they would immediately respond with. It seems unlikely they will just pull a 90nm G70 (which might lower costs, but probably wouldn't improve performance much) or a G80 chip out of thin air in the next few months.

If R580 is 16x3 ALU/shaders, at 600+Mhz clocks and with 1.1ns GDDR3, it should be faster than the 7800GTX"Ultra". But final specs/clocks haven't been released, so talking about performance possibilities is sort of moot.

Yep, ATI PR has worked on one person so far. The mission was to prevent people from buying GTX 512. "Oh, but we've got NV licked with our NEW product, just wait for it". They're basically calling all the people who bought X1800XT's morons. I think the X1800XT is going to have the shortest product life cycle ever.

To be fair, both companies constantly do this (dropping hints and rumors about their next-gen hardware to convince you not to buy something else). If they do launch R580 in an early-'06 timeframe, that would be a pretty short time for the X1800XT to be their top product (although the original plan was to have the X1800s out several months ago, so if you look at it this way R580 would be right on time as a refresh part with an early '06 release).

NVIDIA: All action, no talk.
ATI: All talk, no action.

Please try to keep the FUD to a minimum.

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: Demoth

Who are you again?