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R530 mainstream, R515 low end may be launched early

Usually the high end cards get launched first to steal all the attention, so maybe if they launch a midrange card first, there will be better availability and no paper launches
 
Originally posted by: munky
Usually the high end cards get launched first to steal all the attention, so maybe if they launch a midrange card first, there will be better availability and no paper launches
Click to expand...

Thats what im thinking.

Also this is where the money is at, and so maybe they might not steal any thunder from nVidia but 95% of the ppl who dont follow these things will buy the cheaper stuff, which at the moment happens to be no one, and if ATi can fill that gap, good on them.

Of course there are cheap alternatives, i just meant in this generation, G7X - R5XX.

 
This could be a smart move by ATi. nVidia killed the paper launch to force delays, but if ATi can come out on July 26th as previously expected with ONLY midrange cards at cheaper prices, even though they won't be anywhere near the speed of the 7800GTX, they might catch nVidia with their pants down since nVidia doesn't have midrange in the new generation yet.

It'll force nVidia to scramble to fill out the 7800 line, else ATi will officially have no competition in the midrange. Assuming their midrange beats the prev-gen 6600GT/6800GT, anyway.

Really ingenious move by ATi if they pull it off. If they're both delayed until September AND only come out with midrange cards then, they're screwed, though.
 
Originally posted by: Xentropy
This could be a smart move by ATi. nVidia killed the paper launch to force delays, but if ATi can come out on July 26th as previously expected with ONLY midrange cards at cheaper prices, even though they won't be anywhere near the speed of the 7800GTX, they might catch nVidia with their pants down since nVidia doesn't have midrange in the new generation yet.

It'll force nVidia to scramble to fill out the 7800 line, else ATi will officially have no competition in the midrange. Assuming their midrange beats the prev-gen 6600GT/6800GT, anyway.

Really ingenious move by ATi if they pull it off. If they're both delayed until September AND only come out with midrange cards then, they're screwed, though.
Click to expand...

It'll force nVidia to scramble to fill out the 7800 line?
Maybe nvidia already has all the cards ready, but now that ATI are in the corner they're waiting for ATI's move in the midrange, and then they'll pull a 6600GT (like last Gen when ATI released the x600 and nvidia owned them with the 6600GT)
 
I'm thinking their definition of 'midrange' is the 24-pipe cards, so that while the real monster 32-pipers are still no where to be found, they can at least compete against the 7800GTX with something. Still, they're really pushing the too-little, too-late stuff...a month from now anyone who was going for a high end card will have already splurged on their GTX, rather than wait for an unknown counterattack from ATi.
 
Originally posted by: linkgoron
It'll force nVidia to scramble to fill out the 7800 line?
Maybe nvidia already has all the cards ready, but now that ATI are in the corner they're waiting for ATI's move in the midrange, and then they'll pull a 6600GT (like last Gen when ATI released the x600 and nvidia owned them with the 6600GT)
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I'm sure they have chips for the midrange already, since any process is going to have binning and the 7800GTX are obviously coming out of one particular bin. However, it will still take time to ship the chips to the card manufacturers, decide what stock clocks to recommend for each bin, name each product, market the products, get review samples out to the usual suspects, and so on.

If they're not expecting ATi's next generation to come out until October like all signs point to right now, they're not doing all that legwork yet, and since they themselves killed the paper launch, they couldn't get away with saying, "But, but, we'll have a midrange too! Just give us a few weeks!"

If ATi has ANYTHING in stores before September, nVidia isn't likely to be entirely ready for that move.
 
Originally posted by: linkgoron
Originally posted by: Xentropy
This could be a smart move by ATi. nVidia killed the paper launch to force delays, but if ATi can come out on July 26th as previously expected with ONLY midrange cards at cheaper prices, even though they won't be anywhere near the speed of the 7800GTX, they might catch nVidia with their pants down since nVidia doesn't have midrange in the new generation yet.

It'll force nVidia to scramble to fill out the 7800 line, else ATi will officially have no competition in the midrange. Assuming their midrange beats the prev-gen 6600GT/6800GT, anyway.

Really ingenious move by ATi if they pull it off. If they're both delayed until September AND only come out with midrange cards then, they're screwed, though.
Click to expand...

It'll force nVidia to scramble to fill out the 7800 line?
Maybe nvidia already has all the cards ready, but now that ATI are in the corner they're waiting for ATI's move in the midrange, and then they'll pull a 6600GT (like last Gen when ATI released the x600 and nvidia owned them with the 6600GT)
Click to expand...

If nvidia has a card ready, it's pretty stupid of them not to release it, seeng how they got nothing to match a x800xl for the price on pcie.
 
Xentropy, no offence, but nvidia isn't a one person company. It's not one guy that thinks what to do and what happens. They've got analysts and all that. They're not some guys that posts in AT forums. I'm sure that what you (and all of us) think of, they think of much earlier.
EDIT:
Munky, they don't need something to release against the x800xl IMO, cause the 6800GT has the same price in the PCI-E cards(or maybe AGP), and the 6600GT is selling better than the x800xl from what I've seen.
 
Originally posted by: linkgoron
Xentropy, no offence, but nvidia isn't a one person company. It's not one guy that thinks what to do and what happens. They've got analysts and all that. They're not some guys that posts in AT forums. I'm sure that what you (and all of us) think of, they think of much earlier.
Click to expand...
You haven't worked for any large companies, have you? Several thousand people thinking of ideas tends to actually move more SLOWLY than one or two. Bureaucracy, you see. It's bureaucracy that's going to make it take a month to get chips already in a bin onto cards and into stores.

If you think they're already in cards or in stores, then I'm shocked at your trust in NDA's. Information leaks. A LOT. We'd at least have seen an unreliable Inquirer article listing the proposed names of the rest of the 7800 line if it were already that far through the production/marketing process.

Edit: Also, it isn't just a matter of "thinking of ideas". You can come up with 50 different ideas, but you still have to decide which one is best and implement it. You can't change directions mid-stride, so you can't just implement every good idea. nVidia went with the excellent idea of killing the paper launch with day-0 availability to hurt an ATi that was already rumored to be having yield issues on their competing part.

The hole in their strategy is that they're milking the head-start by not releasing a midrange until ATi's cards come out. This is allowing ATi to surprise by releasing JUST a midrange earlier than expected. Since in the entire history of 3D graphics, the high-end has always come out either before or simultaneously with the midrange, it's quite possible nVidia, while sure THINKING OF it, dismissed that thought as unrealistic. However, if ATi does just that and throws history to the wind, they could catch nVidia off guard.
 
Originally posted by: Xentropy
Originally posted by: linkgoron
Xentropy, no offence, but nvidia isn't a one person company. It's not one guy that thinks what to do and what happens. They've got analysts and all that. They're not some guys that posts in AT forums. I'm sure that what you (and all of us) think of, they think of much earlier.
Click to expand...
You haven't worked for any large companies, have you? Several thousand people thinking of ideas tends to actually move more SLOWLY than one or two. Bureaucracy, you see. It's bureaucracy that's going to make it take a month to get chips already in a bin onto cards and into stores.

If you think they're already in cards or in stores, then I'm shocked at your trust in NDA's. Information leaks. A LOT. We'd at least have seen an unreliable Inquirer article listing the proposed names of the rest of the 7800 line if it were already that far through the production/marketing process.

Edit: Also, it isn't just a matter of "thinking of ideas". You can come up with 50 different ideas, but you still have to decide which one is best and implement it. You can't change directions mid-stride, so you can't just implement every good idea. nVidia went with the excellent idea of killing the paper launch with day-0 availability to hurt an ATi that was already rumored to be having yield issues on their competing part.

The hole in their strategy is that they're milking the head-start by not releasing a midrange until ATi's cards come out. This is allowing ATi to surprise by releasing JUST a midrange earlier than expected. Since in the entire history of 3D graphics, the high-end has always come out either before or simultaneously with the midrange, it's quite possible nVidia, while sure THINKING OF it, dismissed that thought as unrealistic. However, if ATi does just that and throws history to the wind, they could catch nVidia off guard.
Click to expand...

Heh, I haven't worked for any company, I'm still in school. I think we can only wait and see. I think that nvidia is waiting for ATI to launch midrange cards. Maybe they're working on cards, and they'll release the 6800nu as low end (100$). 6800GT 200$, 6800U 300$, 7800 400$, 7800GT 500$, 7800GTX 600$ 7800U gazzilion$
I'm A JENIUS!
 
Originally posted by: linkgoron
C51 is Nforce 5 i think, and G72 is probably the 7600 or 7200 card.
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Those are display drivers. You think they (C51) are for an integrated GPU on the nforce5?
 
http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/229/2/

G70... if I'm not mistaken you must have heard about that a couple of times by now, right? It's NVIDIA new internal codename scheme. No more NVxx people. NVIDIA has changed over the years and there's much more diversity in their product line. Their mainboard chipset for example is called C19 for the Intel Edition nForce 4 platform. C is for Chipset and G is short for Graphics. G70, Graphics Series 7... 7800 in this case. Nothing complex about that huh? Well, I explained. You have no idea how many emails I received over codenames and what they actually mean.
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Ati seem very positive about their upcoming midrange cards and yields. May be interesting times where Nvidia owns the upper end and Ati owns the midrange. :beer:
 
Originally posted by: ZobarStyl
I'm thinking their definition of 'midrange' is the 24-pipe cards, so that while the real monster 32-pipers are still no where to be found, they can at least compete against the 7800GTX with something. Still, they're really pushing the too-little, too-late stuff...a month from now anyone who was going for a high end card will have already splurged on their GTX, rather than wait for an unknown counterattack from ATi.
Click to expand...

No, that's the now slightly warped tech persons view of mid-range.
The X800Pro and 6800 are not mid range, and 6600 and X700 cards are.
The X800/6800 are all high end.
24 pipes will NOT be here for a mid range card for a while, you're looking at 12~16 tops I would say from EITHER company as a mid range card.
 
Originally posted by: Lonyo
Originally posted by: ZobarStyl
I'm thinking their definition of 'midrange' is the 24-pipe cards, so that while the real monster 32-pipers are still no where to be found, they can at least compete against the 7800GTX with something. Still, they're really pushing the too-little, too-late stuff...a month from now anyone who was going for a high end card will have already splurged on their GTX, rather than wait for an unknown counterattack from ATi.
Click to expand...

No, that's the now slightly warped tech persons view of mid-range.
The X800Pro and 6800 are not mid range, and 6600 and X700 cards are.
The X800/6800 are all high end.
24 pipes will NOT be here for a mid range card for a while, you're looking at 12~16 tops I would say from EITHER company as a mid range card.
Click to expand...

That depends if the high end r520 is 32 or 24 pies. If it is 32, it might be possible that the next gen ati midrange is 24, but that's just speculation. Anyway, by g70/r520 standards, 16 pipes is midrange, just like 8 pipes was midrange last year, but was high end 2 years ago.
 
Originally posted by: ronnn
Ati seem very positive about their upcoming midrange cards and yields. May be interesting times where Nvidia owns the upper end and Ati owns the midrange. :beer:
Click to expand...
They wouldn't own it for long, as I'm sure nVidia would have a counter. The important thing would be to surprise nVidia by releasing sooner than expected, so they get a one or two month lead in the midrange the way nVidia's enjoying now at the high end.
 
So R530 and RV515 are going to be launched early, what does that really mean? Were these supposed to origionally be launched after R520 or before? We still don't have a date for either of these products or specs.

Ati has a habit of releasing poor performing replacements for it's mid-range lineup. Remember the 9500 Pro being replaced by the 9600? They did a step back-wards performancew wise. The X700pro which is barely able to keep up with a 9800pro should not be too hard for them to improve on...I hope.
 
I don't care who ownz who, just get the more Budget/Midrange out, have it be better than the 6600/x700 and let us get some upgrades.
 
ATi can't release the low end without setting the bar first. The performance increase over the current generation will be so low that people won't see any reason to go with the new ones. The purpose of releasing the high-end first is to set the bar and let the other cards cascade.

Unless ATi's midrange beats the 6800GT, the launch will not be effective.
 
Originally posted by: PerfeK
ATi can't release the low end without setting the bar first. The performance increase over the current generation will be so low that people won't see any reason to go with the new ones. The purpose of releasing the high-end first is to set the bar and let the other cards cascade.

Unless ATi's midrange beats the 6800GT, the launch will not be effective.
Click to expand...

I bet by the time ATI releases their R5xx line, the 6800GT will have already become mid-low range, and the card range will be based off of the GF7 line (7600/7200 low end, 7800GT midrange, 7800U high end).

This actually kinda reminds me of ATI's attempt at SLI, released way too late and ended up chewing on nVidia's dust.
 
They're disabling pipes on the poor-yield R520 parts that are defective and trying to recoup some of the costs on them.

Don't blame them in the least. A very smart move from an economic standpoint.
 
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