r420 & nv40 tidbits from anandtech

[Keysplayr]

Now I know ATI crapped its collective shorts after peeping NV40 performance. Why else would they go all out like this. Usually a graphics company would want to milk a product (EG. a 16 pipeline card with 4 disabled for 12 functional pipelines) and get all the cash they can for it. Then rerelease the "refresh" which is exactly the same card with the extra 4 pipelines enabled so they can cash in on it all over again. They are not kidding when they say that ATI had to change its marketing strategy. I gotta say, all this just makes the NV40 look better and a more potent adversary than ATI could have imagined. Well, the time is almost upon us to see. If Xbit is correct, then we should have one helluva shootout on our hands. The suspense is killing me already. It feels like I have been waiting for years!!

 

[BenSkywalker]

Pete-

BS? As far as I can see, the DX9 Radeons clearly outperform DX9 GeForces with DX9 games. They may not play them fast enough to allow for 12x10+AA+AF, but they're playable.

The BS is the hype around the flood of DX9 PS 2.0 games. We now have three. We are averaging just one per six months of availability of Ps 2.0 parts.

Most ppl bought 9700 Pros because it allowed them to play all their games with HRAA at 60+fps, a new feat.

That isn't what we listened to from most of the fans of ATi about. There are certain ones where that was the case, and for them I see no issue with their discounting of PS 3.0 effects.

The fact that early benches indicated that the 9700P would significantly outperform the 5800U with next-gen effects was icing on the cake, but not totally irrelevant. If you're upgrading once every two years, surely it's a smarter move to buy the card with the most longevity, as best can be determined at the time?

Then by that same standard if everything goes as current information strongly indicates there shouldn't be much support at all for the R420 when it launches. I'm not saying it will all play out how we are hearing, but if it does then this forum should swap to rabid nV40 support pretty quickly.

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Now I know ATI crapped its collective shorts after peeping NV40 performance. Why else would they go all out like this. Usually a graphics company would want to milk a product (EG. a 16 pipeline card with 4 disabled for 12 functional pipelines) and get all the cash they can for it. Then rerelease the "refresh" which is exactly the same card with the extra 4 pipelines enabled so they can cash in on it all over again. They are not kidding when they say that ATI had to change its marketing strategy. I gotta say, all this just makes the NV40 look better and a more potent adversary than ATI could have imagined. Well, the time is almost upon us to see. If Xbit is correct, then we should have one helluva shootout on our hands. The suspense is killing me already. It feels like I have been waiting for years!!

Or ATI always had a 16 pipeline solution and the rumours of 8 or 12 were always wrong. AFter all they were rumours and not facts, just like Nvidia's 16 pipelines came out a month ago with rumours that it had 8 and ATi had 12 which is of course falls for both of them. LiKe i said before to not underestimate ATI and here is the proof of it.

Perhaps you are right about the theory of them stepping up and just selling their highest yeild 16 pipeline chips, but maybe they intended to do so all along and covered it up pretty effectively don't you think? Otherwise, if the 16 pipeline was supposed to be a mid-life refresh, then what will they have from its introduction and until R500 if they were saving it for later, forcing them to use it earlier now? It might not be this simple.

 

[g3pro]

or how about ATi was designing a 12x1 card until they realized that nVidia was designing a 16x2 card. the only thing they could do to compete would be to release a 16x1 card.



(wasn't ATi's card supposed to be out first?)

 

[nRollo]

The BS is the hype around the flood of DX9 PS 2.0 games. We now have three. We are averaging just one per six months of availability of Ps 2.0 parts.

You've been smoking those hallucinogenic toads again, haven't you Ben? If you're going to do that crap, at least limit your dose by licking them like everyone else does.

For well over nine months ATI owners have been reaping the DX9 PS2 reward in this god-awful piece of shitt game, TRAOD.
A review of what you nVidiot chumps have been missing!

The result is a mess that 36-plus months of development time couldn't flesh out.

It feels more like an unpolished beta than a finished game; lousy controls.

A real letdown is that, except for the darker plotline, Angel of Darkness plays pretty much the same as any other Tomb Raider game

I'm not sure how (or possibly why), but the controls are slower here. Far slower. To put it lightly, Angel of Darkness controls like a derailed, speeding freight train. With no brakes. On an ice rink. And the ice is cracking. Mouse control is particularly atrocious -- it's either a full 180-degree spin or a few seconds of a degree with little in-between.

Skywalker, if you can't see why ATI folk have been pimping their PS2 for the last 18 months after reading that, you are the world's biggest nVidiot!

Look where you are, man! On Anandtech?!?!? Why don't you read what he has to say, so you too will be an in-the- know, elite ATI gamer?!?!
Read up Blind nVidia Bats!

Can you not see that the ATI card is only losing 65% of it's framerate at that gem of a game TRAOD, while the INFERIOR nVidiot card loses 75%
Which would you rather ride to work?! A goat or a cow?!?!? The cow is 10% faster, so logic dictates you ride a cow!!!!

Yeeeeeeaaaaaarrrrrrrggggggggggggg!

 

[Pete]

All this talk about ATi "crapping its pants" is bull. All we've heard so far is nth-hand gossip mongering. The retail cards will show who had the best-executed card.

Ben, I'm not sure how NV40 speculation factors into 9700P vs. 5800U decision. When both were available, they were pretty evenly matched in speed, but ATi had better AA and better DX9 benches, and reviews said ATi's drivers were finally solid--what's the big mystery why ppl went with ATi? I'm all for speculating, but no one will give a rat's behind about NV40's SM3.0 support if it turns out to be as weak as NV30's SM2.0+ support.

 

[nRollo]

All this talk about ATi "crapping its pants" is bull.

Oh, they're crapping Pete. I've seen videos of their workers leaving the factory at night, they're walking kind of bowlegged and it looks like they have a small cantaloupe in the seat of their pants.
Sales of Dockers and Fruit of the Looms have gone up 33.9% in Canada since the nV40 rumours started. I've read the wives of ATI employees have been banned from laundromats, for obvious reasons.
The rashes and chafing may be the worst of all.......

 

[Pete]

Your janitor friend is paying off in spades. What a scoop! Somebody IM Fuad!

 

[chsh1ca]

Originally posted by: Rollo
Oh, they're crapping Pete. I've seen videos of their workers leaving the factory at night, they're walking kind of bowlegged and it looks like they have a small cantaloupe in the seat of their pants.

Could be hemhorroids.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: chsh1ca

Originally posted by: Rollo
Oh, they're crapping Pete. I've seen videos of their workers leaving the factory at night, they're walking kind of bowlegged and it looks like they have a small cantaloupe in the seat of their pants.

Could be hemhorroids.

LOL more like assterhoids..

Pete, when I say "crapping its collective pants" its only in good fun. A more appropriate phrase might have been "slightly alarmed and in dire need of fiber".
All in good fun. Nvidia fans are praying that all these rumors are true and ATI fans are clutching their ATI totems and chanting "say it isn't so!!"
Whatever the outcome, whoevers on top is fine with me.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: RussianSensation

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Now I know ATI crapped its collective shorts after peeping NV40 performance. Why else would they go all out like this. Usually a graphics company would want to milk a product (EG. a 16 pipeline card with 4 disabled for 12 functional pipelines) and get all the cash they can for it. Then rerelease the "refresh" which is exactly the same card with the extra 4 pipelines enabled so they can cash in on it all over again. They are not kidding when they say that ATI had to change its marketing strategy. I gotta say, all this just makes the NV40 look better and a more potent adversary than ATI could have imagined. Well, the time is almost upon us to see. If Xbit is correct, then we should have one helluva shootout on our hands. The suspense is killing me already. It feels like I have been waiting for years!!

Or ATI always had a 16 pipeline solution and the rumours of 8 or 12 were always wrong. AFter all they were rumours and not facts, just like Nvidia's 16 pipelines came out a month ago with rumours that it had 8 and ATi had 12 which is of course falls for both of them. LiKe i said before to not underestimate ATI and here is the proof of it.

Perhaps you are right about the theory of them stepping up and just selling their highest yeild 16 pipeline chips, but maybe they intended to do so all along and covered it up pretty effectively don't you think? Otherwise, if the 16 pipeline was supposed to be a mid-life refresh, then what will they have from its introduction and until R500 if they were saving it for later, forcing them to use it earlier now? It might not be this simple.

You may be right about them planning to enable 16 pipes all along. Though I think that they didnt plan on doing it so soon.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Rollo-

You have opened my eyes! All this time I thought I was doing the right thing not running TRAOD on my rig but low and behold, playing a lousy game should always be the reason to spend a few hundred dollars on a graphics card! I've seen the light brutha, praise Orton!

Pete-

Ben, I'm not sure how NV40 speculation factors into 9700P vs. 5800U decision. When both were available, they were pretty evenly matched in speed, but ATi had better AA and better DX9 benches

So I can hold you to that statement? The reason why ATi was so clearly superior last gen was due to superior AA and PS 2.0 benches? You are willing to take that statement as the baseline for supremacy this generation(AA+3.0) or admit to being a hypocrite?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Pete
All this talk about ATi "crapping its pants" is bull. All we've heard so far is nth-hand gossip mongering. The retail cards will show who had the best-executed card.

Ben, I'm not sure how NV40 speculation factors into 9700P vs. 5800U decision. When both were available, they were pretty evenly matched in speed, but ATi had better AA and better DX9 benches, and reviews said ATi's drivers were finally solid--what's the big mystery why ppl went with ATi? I'm all for speculating, but no one will give a rat's behind about NV40's SM3.0 support if it turns out to be as weak as NV30's SM2.0+ support.

This is actually the only "untrue" (IMO) thing I've ever seen you post Pete. I would guess that $100 higher price, very limited availability, released 6 months later so many had already bought 9700Ps, and the noisey FlowFX had far more to do with the 5800Us low sales than quibbles with it's AA and DX9 games that didn't exist yet.

I know I was not thinking in March 2003, "Oh yeah, the DX9 games will be here any minute now!". I was thinking thinking "God dam*. I just paid close to $400 for this 9700Pro, the price on them has already dropped a $100, now I'm going to lose my ass twice if I sell it and pay $400 again for a 5800U." I actually did get a 5800nu for $300, then lost my ass on that when nVidia went on it's "anti-nV30" campaign.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Pete
All this talk about ATi "crapping its pants" is bull. All we've heard so far is nth-hand gossip mongering. The retail cards will show who had the best-executed card.

Ben, I'm not sure how NV40 speculation factors into 9700P vs. 5800U decision. When both were available, they were pretty evenly matched in speed, but ATi had better AA and better DX9 benches, and reviews said ATi's drivers were finally solid--what's the big mystery why ppl went with ATi? I'm all for speculating, but no one will give a rat's behind about NV40's SM3.0 support if it turns out to be as weak as NV30's SM2.0+ support.

This is actually the only "untrue" (IMO) thing I've ever seen you post Pete. I would guess that $100 higher price, very limited availability, released 6 months later so many had already bought 9700Ps, and the noisey FlowFX had far more to do with the 5800Us low sales than quibbles with it's AA and DX9 games that didn't exist yet.

I know I was not thinking in March 2003, "Oh yeah, the DX9 games will be here any minute now!". I was thinking thinking "God dam*. I just paid close to $400 for this 9700Pro, the price on them has already dropped a $100, now I'm going to lose my ass twice if I sell it and pay $400 again for a 5800U." I actually did get a 5800nu for $300, then lost my ass on that when nVidia went on it's "anti-nV30" campaign.

What about all those people who held of a 9700Pro because of the hype surrounding the NV30?
They would have waited for NV30 benchmarks, looked at the 9700 better perf and cheaper price, then bought at the time they knew what the NV30 was going to be like.

 

[Ferocious]

Who cares about these cards?

In the fall PCI-express systems and cards will make the N40 and R420 such bad purchases in retrospect.

If you got a good setup now....just wait till the fall and the death of AGP.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Ferocious
Who cares about these cards?

In the fall PCI-express systems and cards will make the N40 and R420 such bad purchases in retrospect.

If you got a good setup now....just wait till the fall and the death of AGP.

AGP will be around well past the fall. Analysts are saying it will take about 2 to 3 years for AGP to phase out.

 

[chsh1ca]

Indeed, there were a load of PCI/ISA combo boards out for the longest time because the industry knows you can't phase out an idustry standard interface that had been in existence for almost a decade in a single day.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: Ferocious
Who cares about these cards?

In the fall PCI-express systems and cards will make the N40 and R420 such bad purchases in retrospect.

If you got a good setup now....just wait till the fall and the death of AGP.

it'll be some time before pci-e will be a factor. hell, pci hasn't exaclty died yet... tho it's close. how long has agp been out?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Ferocious
Who cares about these cards?

In the fall PCI-express systems and cards will make the N40 and R420 such bad purchases in retrospect.

If you got a good setup now....just wait till the fall and the death of AGP.

I think you are WAAAAAAYYYYYYY off base if you think that everyone will have shifted to PCI Express and it will be making a big difference in games by fall. Is the AGP bus bandwidth even close to being used yet? I didn't think so as their seems to be no performance differences in AGP4X and AGP8X?

Doesn't the bus speed and bandwidth become a moot point if it exceeds the cards and cpus ability to use the data?

 

[rbV5]

Doesn't the bus speed and bandwidth become a moot point if it exceeds the cards and cpus ability to use the data?

Its a moot point UNTIL it exceeds the cards and cpus ability to use the data.

LOL, cancel that. Your statement is correct.

 

[Rudee]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Looks like ATI may be back in the game.

16 pipes after all?

Unconfirmed rumor at this point.

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: Rudee

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Looks like ATI may be back in the game.

16 pipes after all?

Unconfirmed rumor at this point.

Kris says its Confirmed, good enough for me. We'll soon see.