R350 going into mass production

[PrinceXizor]

You say, ATi's trying to fill a market niche with a dated part that simply can't compete. Which cards are you referring to? Are you calling R300 dated?

If you could read (which its begninning to be apparent you can't) chiz was talking about the 8500!! not the R300...

Repackaging the 8500 as a 9100 makes little sense with the 9500 available and RV350 on the horizon. ATi's trying to fill a market niche with a dated part that simply can't compete.

 

[PrinceXizor]

Complements of www.megagames.com circa Nov.6, 2002

Even by falling behind rivals, ATI and plagued by delays in the introduction of the NV30, nVidia seem invincible when it comes to market share. A Mercury Research report, released this week, found that in the 3rd quarter of 2002 Nvidia's market share rose to 58 per cent, from 56 per cent the previous quarter. ATI lost market share, shrinking from 36 per cent in the second quarter to 33 per cent in the third, despite selling the highest-performing graphics chip. The report looked at worldwide shipments of standalone graphics controllers.

These figures will certainly boost enthusiasm about the company, especially in expectation of the official NV30 launch. Many analysts however, claim that the latest report only tells half the truth since the effects of ATI's RADEON 9700 will not be felt, in the market for at least another quarter. Add to that the low availability of the NV30, at least until the end of the 1st quarter of 2003 and you have a more realistic picture. Another issue which everyone should be aware of, is that Flagship products, like RADEON 9700 and the NV30, account for a minute percentage of graphics cards sales, they are, instead, used as a confirmation of technological supremacy and an attraction to lure customers towards lower end products.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
You're as much as an nVidia fanboy as I am an ATi fanboy. You've been defending this DOA, 6-month late card since the day it came out.

You say, ATi's trying to fill a market niche with a dated part that simply can't compete. Which cards are you referring to? Are you calling R300 dated?

No, I'm just correcting the erroneous statements you make here. Again, you spout off with your rhetoric as if it were fact. Let's just hope for ATi's sake that you are as incorrect about the FX being DOA as you were about ATI taking the market crown from nVidia (amongst other BS assertions).

Unlike most fanbois here, I actually purchase the cards that I speak of based on the best performing part available, not company loyalty (how's that 7500 treating you btw?). Instead of speaking unintelligibly about perceived benefits, I prefer to witness them firsthand.

I've never hidden my preference for nVidia based products, simply b/c their drivers are of better quality. That's not my OPINION, that's my EXPERIENCE. Instead of harping about the positives and negatives of a card I don't own, I like to base my opinion on actual experience. I guess I prefer to be a PLAYER in the GAME rather than a FANBOY or MALE CHEERLEADER on the SIDELINES.

As for my last sentence, if you re-read it carefully, it should be pretty clear which card I'm talking about.

Chiz

 

[GTaudiophile]

Oh, so you've purchased every card mentioned here, from both ATi and nVidia?

I've owned cards from S3, 3dfx, nVidia, and ATi. My last three cards have been Radeons of one sort or another, and I can testify to having no driver issues on the platforms I've had and with the games I've played. Is that not first-hand experience?

Oh, and any card that arrives 6 months late, can't destroy the competition, and costs $100 more is most certainly DOA.

 

[PrinceXizor]

A blurb from a WELL written article on CNET.....

"There's not really that much money on the bleeding edge--it's prestige and bragging rights," he said. "But the fact ATI was able to establish itself as the clear performance leader for a couple of months--I think it's going to give them a market-share push in the long run. People are going to think of them more seriously where it matters, in the market for $100 to $150 cards."

At least that's what ATI is hoping for.

Linky for the full article.

 

[RaynorWolfcastle]

Chizow, I don't see why you think that the Radeon 8500/9000/9100 is such an outdated and useless product when it is actually competing against the GF4-MX right now.

nVidia made a superb marketing coup with the GF4-MX as they are selling beefed up GF2s left, right, and center to OEMs who sell them to customers who think they get GF4 Ti-like performance. That being said, until nVidia gets their low-end NV30 part on the market (NV31?), ATI's 8500/9000/9100 will be competing in the GF4 MX price range; with this in mind, ATI is perfectly justified in keeping the "outdated" 8500/9000/9100 in their product line as it wrecks the GF4-MX, performance-wise.

Currently the GF4 Ti4200 is an excellent product in its price range, but one has to wonder how many people will want to save $30 instead of getting DX9 compatibility and a speed boost with the 9500 series.


With all this talk of NV30, people are forgetting that NV31 is a much more important product to get to market since nVidia will wait until then before shifting down their product line (that is Ti4200 takes the GF4-MX spot, Ti4600 takes Ti4200 spot, NV31 takes Ti4600 spot).

Either way, this competition is great for the customers 🙂

 

[chizow]

Raynor, I fully agree; I didn't make the comparision of the 9100/9000/8500, someone else did. I was comparing the AIB market of $100 and over, particularly the $100-$150 market, which as I said, the Ti4200 has no current competition.

Those cards you listed are exactly where I figure them to be, in the OEM/integrator sub-$100 market, which is certainly lucrative as well, but most here would not consider them as an enthusiast "upgrade" which is why I didn't mention them.

GTAudiophile here's my predictions on your predictions: DOA!!! Just like the rest of the fanmail you distribute, your musings have no bearing on the market.

Chiz

 

[apoppin]

Adversity makes Nvidia stronger

A familiar rival, ATI of Markham, Ontario, came out with a new graphics chip in September that took away the performance crown that Nvidia held for several years. Nvidia's own competing chip, which had been due in August, has only just come out.

Sales of Microsoft's Xbox game console, which features a couple of Nvidia chips, have been disappointing, and Nvidia is in a legal dispute with Microsoft over the chips' price.

Nvidia has developed chips to complement Advanced Micro Devices' coming Hammer family of microprocessors, but the Hammer keeps missing its release date.

Disappointing PC sales prompted Nvidia to report lower-than-expected earnings for the third fiscal quarter, ended Oct. 27.

And investors have pounded Nvidia's stock, sending it from about $75 a share at the start of 2002 to about $10 now. . . .

How badly Nvidia has been hurt by ATI is unclear. As of the third calendar quarter, Nvidia had 32 percent of the graphics-chip market, compared with 19 percent for ATI, according to market researcher Mercury Research in Cave Creek, Ariz. Mercury analyst Dean McCarron says preliminary fourth-quarter results show little market-share change. . . .

Yet there is evidence that ATI is gaining ground. ATI President Dave Orton said the company has picked up new customers, selling chips for Dell Computer's Dimension product line and Hewlett-Packard's Compaq Presario desktops.

And by the time Nvidia gets the GeForce FX to the market, ATI will be almost ready to launch a low-cost version of last fall's chip, a project that is code-named the R350.

Still, Orton isn't gloating. ``We respect Jen-Hsun,'' said Orton. ``We know he is not standing still, and we aren't either.''

 

[NOX]

I hope this means the price of the 9700 will drop? 🙂

 

[GTaudiophile]

Still, Orton isn't gloating. ``We respect Jen-Hsun,'' said Orton. ``We know he is not standing still, and we aren't either.''

Nice quote.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: NOX
I hope this means the price of the 9700 will drop? 🙂

Yes, next month . . . or April at the latest, when the 9900Pro takes over as the "flagship" model replacing the (then "aging") 9700Pro.

😀

Edit:

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Still, Orton isn't gloating. ``We respect Jen-Hsun,'' said Orton. ``We know he is not standing still, and we aren't either.''

Nice quote.

Of course, they are ATI - not Visiontek - and they have their fanATIcs to do the gloating for them. 😉

 

[ahsumdude]

I have squirrled away $400 for a highend video card and it isn't going to be a "vacuum" cleaner either. With that circus cooling apparatus strapped to the GFX you know it is simply an OC'd chip that couldn't be run at a more conservative clock settings. Nvidia had to OC the GFX to beat the Radeon 9700 Pro. Now comes ATI to lay down their trump card. Yee ha!

 

[XBoxLPU]

Originally posted by: chizow
Btw, latest ATi roadmap indicates RV350 will be competing with both NV31 and NV35. There's plans for both a desktop and mobile part for the RV350 core (with slight core modifications of course).

And PrinceXizor, I'm not a Dr., I'm a ninja 😉

Chiz

The dekstop will be R350 and the mobile will be RV 350!

 

[Stunt]

Ok just to set things straight for ppl...
anything RVXXX is a value card (they usually get made into mobile solutions).
anything RXXX is a proformance card.
now nvidias codes are different everytime except one thing NVX0 is the new technology and NVX5 is the proformance enhancing revision.

This is the high end picture for 2003:
R400 vs. NV35 (end of summer 2003)
R350 vs. nothing (assuming out by march, nv30 will be out in volume same time-has same speed as 9700 roughly)
R300 (9700pro) vs. NV30 (gf fx 5800 ultra)

nv30 after drivers maybe will fill a gap between r350, r300 but nvidia has to come down in price a lot (make up for minuses) and show it is better than 9700 which to be quite honest, hasnt....

Here is the Mid end picture:
RV350 vs. NV31
9700/pro vs. NV34
9500pro vs. gf4 4600
9500 vs. gf4 4200
9100/9000 vs. gf4 mx
8500 vs. gf3 ti500
8500le vs. gf3 ti200

there you have it
both companies have a full line up (well nvidia has missed the boat so far- still need 4 cards)
as of now i can see good things for ati...they have a great line up
it'll take time to catch ati...
if they think they will win soon, they'd have to launch the nv35 in april (haha can anyone say one month product cycles?)
anyways catchup for a while, of course there is always something better around the corner for you nvidia fanboys but same with ati.
time will tell who suceeds, but the winners here are us, get ready for some crazy price cuts.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: ErnieD

Originally posted by: BlvdKing
I like the looks of the R350, but I would still rather have the NVidia card. The drivers on it are immature and I think the performance will improve substantially after a few months time.

I couldn't agree more. Remember folks, the benchmarks and reviews being done now are of infant nVidia drivers vs. hardened and tweaked ATI drivers. The GFFX isn't even out yet, give them a chance to finalize and tweak out the drivers before making any judgements over which card wins. Beside that fact, the NV31 shouldn't be too far off either, and nVidia has indicated that it is the true killer, the NV30 is just a step in between that they *expect* to lose money on.

it's 6months late so they had 6 months to "perfect" the drivers

NO EXCUSE!

I still remember ATi's 9700Pro toasting the Ti4600 with ATI's first set of drivers that were crappy at best and still put a 200% beating on Nvidia

 

[SickBeast]

I still remember ATi's 9700Pro toasting the Ti4600 with ATI's first set of drivers that were crappy at best and still put a 200% beating on Nvidia.

agreed. i can count on one hand the number of times i've seen the fastest product in the industry get obliterated like that by something new. the last time i can remember this type of thing was when the voodoo2 came out. and the voodoo1 before that.

it's probably going to be a very long time before we see either ati or nvidia double one another in performance. i can't wait to see something double a 9700pro...