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R350 going into mass production

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AFAIK, the 9700 culd utilize DDRII as well, could it not?

I have it on one somewhat shady source, and two very decent sources that have nothing to do with each other that it is certainly shipping with DDRI rated at 400/800. Supposedly, one can expect 25% increases covering most bench's and a little less in a few others.

Take it for what it's worth, we shall see shortly.
 
Originally posted by: gregor7777
AFAIK, the 9700 culd utilize DDRII as well, could it not?

I have it on one somewhat shady source, and two very decent sources that have nothing to do with each other that it is certainly shipping with DDRI rated at 400/800. Supposedly, one can expect 25% increases covering most bench's and a little less in a few others.

Take it for what it's worth, we shall see shortly.
Click to expand...

a 25% increase over the Radeon 9700 pro is damn impressive 🙂
 
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: gregor7777
AFAIK, the 9700 culd utilize DDRII as well, could it not?

I have it on one somewhat shady source, and two very decent sources that have nothing to do with each other that it is certainly shipping with DDRI rated at 400/800. Supposedly, one can expect 25% increases covering most bench's and a little less in a few others.

Take it for what it's worth, we shall see shortly.
Click to expand...

a 25% increase over the Radeon 9700 pro is damn impressive 🙂
Click to expand...

Yah, its called a Tyan Tachyon 😉 Should be an interesting part though, it will definitely make the 9700/9500 pro and non-pros accessible to the masses. Considering a 9700 nonpro is going for ~$235 now, It should fall to the sub-$200 bin; the 9700pro might fall to current Ti4600 levels.

Chiz
 
Interesting point chizow...I didn't even think about the realigning of comparably priced cards versus nvidias. Nvidia is already having a hard time competing with the price/performance of the 9500 Pro, and if the price on this card lowers some more, and you start throwing in 9700 and 9700 Pro's...it could get ugly in the highly lucartive mid-range mareket real quick...
 
Originally posted by: PrinceXizor
Interesting point chizow...I didn't even think about the realigning of comparably priced cards versus nvidias. Nvidia is already having a hard time competing with the price/performance of the 9500 Pro, and if the price on this card lowers some more, and you start throwing in 9700 and 9700 Pro's...it could get ugly in the highly lucartive mid-range mareket real quick...
Click to expand...
I doubt we will see ATI lowering prices because of nVidia:
We heard that ATI is full of optimism after the first "reviews" for Geforce FX since it expected that Nvidia would deliver more than they have
Click to expand...
More likely, the price of the 9700Pro and 9700 will quickly drop after the 9900 is released. And it looks like ATI doesn't feel it "needs" to offer DDRII (yet) because of the "disappointing" (per "expectations") FX Dustbuster performance (although they were "ready" to "meet" or exceed a higher-performing FX card with DDR-II).
 
Yah, the $100-$200 range is where the AIB market makes its living; I'm not sure how much the $100-$150 will be affected, as the Ti4200 currently reigns supreme in that area. I'm expecting the 64MB parts to fall in the $100-$120 (e-tail of course) range, with the 128MB parts ranging from $120-$150 (turbo and 8x parts). I'm not sure the 9500 nonpro will pose much of a threat to the Ti4200's position, as many here shy away from it unless planning to hack it. The Ti4600 will probably need to fill the $150-$200 bucket, where it will have a much tougher time competing with 9500pros and 9700non-pros. Expect the FX non-ultra and 9700pro to jockey for position in the $200-$300 range, and of course the newest parts FX Ultra and R350 competing at the top of the food chain in the $300+ market.

Chiz
 
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: PrinceXizor
Interesting point chizow...I didn't even think about the realigning of comparably priced cards versus nvidias. Nvidia is already having a hard time competing with the price/performance of the 9500 Pro, and if the price on this card lowers some more, and you start throwing in 9700 and 9700 Pro's...it could get ugly in the highly lucartive mid-range mareket real quick...
Click to expand...
I doubt we will see ATI lowering prices because of nVidia:
We heard that ATI is full of optimism after the first "reviews" for Geforce FX since it expected that Nvidia would deliver more than they have
Click to expand...
More likely, the price of the 9700Pro and 9700 will quickly drop after the 9900 is released. And it looks like ATI doesn't feel it "needs" to offer DDRII (yet) because of the "disappointing" (per "expectations") FX Dustbuster performance (although they were "ready" to "meet" or exceed a higher-performing FX card with DDR-II).
Click to expand...

Actually ATI's cards have already dropped because of the FX (else there would be no reason to).
Secondly, when the 9900 comes out, prices will shift accordingly. This will RESULT in what chiz mentioned and I bascially mused about, i.e. better cards at better pricing.

 
Originally posted by: PrinceXizor
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: PrinceXizor
Interesting point chizow...I didn't even think about the realigning of comparably priced cards versus nvidias. Nvidia is already having a hard time competing with the price/performance of the 9500 Pro, and if the price on this card lowers some more, and you start throwing in 9700 and 9700 Pro's...it could get ugly in the highly lucartive mid-range mareket real quick...
Click to expand...
I doubt we will see ATI lowering prices because of nVidia:
We heard that ATI is full of optimism after the first "reviews" for Geforce FX since it expected that Nvidia would deliver more than they have
Click to expand...
More likely, the price of the 9700Pro and 9700 will quickly drop after the 9900 is released. And it looks like ATI doesn't feel it "needs" to offer DDRII (yet) because of the "disappointing" (per "expectations") FX Dustbuster performance (although they were "ready" to "meet" or exceed a higher-performing FX card with DDR-II).
Click to expand...

Actually ATI's cards have already dropped because of the FX (else there would be no reason to).
Secondly, when the 9900 comes out, prices will shift accordingly. This will RESULT in what chiz mentioned and I bascially mused about, i.e. better cards at better pricing.
Click to expand...
First of all, I said "quickly" drop. The 9700 and its variants have been "incrementally" dropping in price ever since it was released. The MSRP hasn't changed and won't need to because of the FX('s "disappointing" performance).

Rather we will see ATI drop the 9700's MSRP when the 9900 is released (@ $400) - a "significant" price drop.

And the Ti4200 is OLD news and a soon to be "discontinued" card (much like the Radeon 8500). Neither ATI nor nVidia makes much money from their "old" stuff. 😉

rolleye.gif

 
Originally posted by: apoppin
And the Ti4200 is OLD news and a soon to be "discontinued" card (much like the Radeon 8500). Neither ATI nor nVidia makes much money from their "old" stuff. 😉

rolleye.gif
Click to expand...

LoL...so blinded by bias.

I guess the Ti4200 is so "OLD" and unprofitable that it sustained nVidia's market dominance the last 6 months despite ATi's triumphant release of the 9700pro? Comparing the Ti4200 to the 8500 is ridiculous, in fact, ATi still doesn't have a competing part in the $100-$150 range on par with the Ti4200. The 9500 nonpro is creeping down to that price range, but its still not there yet, and has only been released for a few months. The Ti4200 will continue to bring in substantial revenue until the NV31 and NV34 replace it, and even then it will still be a viable value solution.

Chiz

 
I agree with chiz...that's why I said it was going to get messy....your going to have the Ti4200 (defacto standard) getting pushed by decreasing prices of 9500 and 9500 Pros....counterd by the NV31 and NV34 cards....its gonna be "messy" because we'll have to see where all the cards and pricepoints end up hitting one another....if ATI can steal some significant market share from the Ti4200 and/or its successor they will have succeeded in just about every way with their product strategy over the last year.
 
Originally posted by: GnomeCop
so has there been any word if there will be an AIW version of the R350?
any guesses?
Click to expand...

I would venture yes as just about every flagship card from ATi has had a AIW version.

 
The real reason ATi didn't make more of a market splash is b/c it took them so long to bring out a part < their $400 premium card. As we've all seen lately, its pretty clear why. They simply couldn't get the yields/mass production of their R300 cores to sustain essentially 3 more product lines (9700, 9500 pro/non-pro). Seeing as all these cards are essentially the same, ATi kind of missed the boat in taking so long to bring these lower priced parts to market.

What did this effectively do for ATi? It gave them the speed crown, but left them with only a crippled 7500, 8500 and 9000 (lol!) to compete with the GF4 line which nicely fit into the $150-$400 range. We've all seen who won that battle.

Chiz
 
So besides the jacked up core clock of the R350 and DDR-II, dose it have anything else over the R300? Not to clear on the tech side of things.
 
Originally posted by: chizow
What did this effectively do for ATi? It gave them the speed crown, but left them with only a crippled 7500, 8500 and 9000 (lol!) to compete with the GF4 line which nicely fit into the $150-$400 range. We've all seen who won that battle. Chiz
Click to expand...

Two points I'd like to make here. First, the Radeon 8500 ownership grew by leaps and bounds, mostly by being almost HALF the price of a TI4200 and being almost as fast.
Second, the Radeon 9000. Sure it's slower than a full 8500. But there's been a LOT of 8500LE's being sold lower than the full version's 275/275. We've seen 250/250, 230/230 and even as low as 200/200. The Radeon 9000 pro and non are pretty much the 8500 equal but runs in a more compact, cooler solution. One of few modern cards that can run quite well with just a heatsink and NO fan (though higher clocked models usually have one... It's not REALLY necessary.) Several chips being integrated into one smaller GPU also meant cheaper production costs and the ability to make it mobile (it's currently the best solution for laptops right now.)

I'd say the battle for mid-end is still being fought, with nVidia only having a slight lead because it gets its MX-420 (and you laugh at the 9000??) put into all those Hewlett-Packard machines...



 
Originally posted by: LbJustinTime
Radeon > Geforce

ATI > Nvidia

The End. 🙂
Click to expand...

Hmm....90's phrase flashback...whatever...

Chiz has a point...culled from AnandTEch reviews and recent price guide...in list of performance leader(not counting O/C'ing)

GeForceFX Ultra (probably with driver update): $499.00
9700 Pro: $299.000
9700: $226.00
Ti4600: $254.00
9500 Pro: $172.00
Ti4200: $122.00
9000 Pro: $85.75

At first glance you might think...hmm...ATI isn't doning so bad, u can get a 9700 for less than a Ti4600 and the 9500Pro does perform better than Ti4200...BUT these are ALREADY ATI's next-gen cards, while nvidia's NV31 and NV34 are slated for arrival shortly. So whle ATI has a small performance delta now...that will probably vanish soon, and they took a LONG time to get these cards out...the jury is still out as to if ATI has/can successfully gain some marketshare in the moneymaking $150-$200 range...we shall see. For now, kudos to ATI for readying the R350 to counter the FX, but as the start of this whole conversation was...nvidia is far from dead...FAR from dead...
 
Originally posted by: chizow
The real reason ATi didn't make more of a market splash is b/c it took them so long to bring out a part < their $400 premium card. As we've all seen lately, its pretty clear why. They simply couldn't get the yields/mass production of their R300 cores to sustain essentially 3 more product lines (9700, 9500 pro/non-pro). Seeing as all these cards are essentially the same, ATi kind of missed the boat in taking so long to bring these lower priced parts to market.

What did this effectively do for ATi? It gave them the speed crown, but left them with only a crippled 7500, 8500 and 9000 (lol!) to compete with the GF4 line which nicely fit into the $150-$400 range. We've all seen who won that battle.

Chiz
Click to expand...

Yep, and nVidia took 6 months longer than it should have just to introduce NV30. Or will you not bash nVidia when it takes 2-3 months longer for them to get NV31/NV34 out the door?
 
Originally posted by: PrinceXizor
Originally posted by: LbJustinTime
Radeon > Geforce

ATI > Nvidia

The End. 🙂
Click to expand...

Hmm....90's phrase flashback...whatever...

Chiz has a point...culled from AnandTEch reviews and recent price guide...in list of performance leader(not counting O/C'ing)

GeForceFX Ultra (probably with driver update): $499.00
9700 Pro: $299.000
9700: $226.00
Ti4600: $254.00
9500 Pro: $172.00
Ti4200: $122.00
9000 Pro: $85.75

At first glance you might think...hmm...ATI isn't doning so bad, u can get a 9700 for less than a Ti4600 and the 9500Pro does perform better than Ti4200...BUT these are ALREADY ATI's next-gen cards, while nvidia's NV31 and NV34 are slated for arrival shortly. So whle ATI has a small performance delta now...that will probably vanish soon, and they took a LONG time to get these cards out...the jury is still out as to if ATI has/can successfully gain some marketshare in the moneymaking $150-$200 range...we shall see. For now, kudos to ATI for readying the R350 to counter the FX, but as the start of this whole conversation was...nvidia is far from dead...FAR from dead...
Click to expand...

Wrong, fanboy! NV31 and NV34 will compete against RV350, and that (plus R350, R400) are ATi's current next-gen products, not R300.

 
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Originally posted by: PrinceXizor
Originally posted by: LbJustinTime
Radeon > Geforce

ATI > Nvidia

The End. 🙂
Click to expand...

Hmm....90's phrase flashback...whatever...

Chiz has a point...culled from AnandTEch reviews and recent price guide...in list of performance leader(not counting O/C'ing)

GeForceFX Ultra (probably with driver update): $499.00
9700 Pro: $299.000
9700: $226.00
Ti4600: $254.00
9500 Pro: $172.00
Ti4200: $122.00
9000 Pro: $85.75

At first glance you might think...hmm...ATI isn't doning so bad, u can get a 9700 for less than a Ti4600 and the 9500Pro does perform better than Ti4200...BUT these are ALREADY ATI's next-gen cards, while nvidia's NV31 and NV34 are slated for arrival shortly. So whle ATI has a small performance delta now...that will probably vanish soon, and they took a LONG time to get these cards out...the jury is still out as to if ATI has/can successfully gain some marketshare in the moneymaking $150-$200 range...we shall see. For now, kudos to ATI for readying the R350 to counter the FX, but as the start of this whole conversation was...nvidia is far from dead...FAR from dead...
Click to expand...

Wrong, fanboy! NV31 and NV34 will compete against RV350, and that (plus R350, R400) are ATi's current next-gen products, not R300.
Click to expand...

Are you SURE?? i thought that the NV31 and NV34 were value and mobile components of the NV30?? are they value and mobile components of NV35??
 
*sniff, sniff* ah....fan boy.....

If you'll kindly scroll up, you'll see chiz said that the Ti4600 would have a hard time competing with 9500Pro's and 9700 non-pro's.....doesn't sound like biased anti-ATI bashing to me, just rational thought. Of course, Dr. Chiz doesn't need me to stick up for him 😛

 
Originally posted by: LeeTJ
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Originally posted by: PrinceXizor
Originally posted by: LbJustinTime
Radeon > Geforce

ATI > Nvidia

The End. 🙂
Click to expand...

Hmm....90's phrase flashback...whatever...

Chiz has a point...culled from AnandTEch reviews and recent price guide...in list of performance leader(not counting O/C'ing)

GeForceFX Ultra (probably with driver update): $499.00
9700 Pro: $299.000
9700: $226.00
Ti4600: $254.00
9500 Pro: $172.00
Ti4200: $122.00
9000 Pro: $85.75

At first glance you might think...hmm...ATI isn't doning so bad, u can get a 9700 for less than a Ti4600 and the 9500Pro does perform better than Ti4200...BUT these are ALREADY ATI's next-gen cards, while nvidia's NV31 and NV34 are slated for arrival shortly. So whle ATI has a small performance delta now...that will probably vanish soon, and they took a LONG time to get these cards out...the jury is still out as to if ATI has/can successfully gain some marketshare in the moneymaking $150-$200 range...we shall see. For now, kudos to ATI for readying the R350 to counter the FX, but as the start of this whole conversation was...nvidia is far from dead...FAR from dead...
Click to expand...

Wrong, fanboy! NV31 and NV34 will compete against RV350, and that (plus R350, R400) are ATi's current next-gen products, not R300.
Click to expand...

Are you SURE?? i thought that the NV31 and NV34 were value and mobile components of the NV30?? are they value and mobile components of NV35??
Click to expand...

Careful....careful....you wouldn't want to go clouding reality with the facts now would you??
 
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