R300 & RV250 up at Anandtech!!!

[Therapist928]

Originally posted by: gf4200isdabest
"Last, but certainly not least, a benchmark we don?t use as it is made by NVIDIA, tweaked by NVIDIA, and configured for NVIDIA hardware, the Chameleon demo. At 1600x1200 the Radeon 9700 doubled the Ti4600 scores. "

-From Kyle Bennet's review at HardOCP

And to think of all the flaming when 2 weeks ago "antondorokhin" said that r300 will destroy the gf4 4600. looks like we have our answer and minority wins.

Hahaha I knew someone was going to bring up the whole antondorokhin thing.
For the record I don't believe there were many people on here arguing with him about whether or not the R300 would be faster than the 4600. I think people were mostly arguing his crazy claims that ATI has always been the market leader since, in his words, EVER. And then when confronted about it he changed his crazy claim to something like, "nVidia sucks because they don't make their own cards, ATI does", which didn't make any sense at all. And let's not forget the way he berated everyone who argued with him on these points.

Though there were probably some crazies in that thread that argued that the R300 wouldn't beat the 4600, most of the people were sensible to not pass judgement because, of course, no benchmarks were out at that time; everything was speculation.

Anyway, i'm very impressed with the R300. Almost makes me regret buying my 4200 - but eh, for $139 it's still a fantastic deal and a gigantic step up from my TNT2 ultra. I don't expect the R300 performance to affect Ti4200 prices anytime soon in a way that will matter.

 

[Akaz1976]

Now...... any bets on how many months it will take for the first Directx9 game to come out?

I would say it would take atleast 2 years to put most DX9 features to use. AFAIK Morrowind is the only game thats out and uses the bumpmapping (water effect) of 8.1. So that special 8.1 feature is used in just One game (and that too in just one object in the game). I believe DAoC expansion and SWG are gonna have more extensive use of 8.1 Features and both those are prolly gonna be released by XMas this year or spring next year.

So for DX9.0 parts i would say we are talking at the earliest late 2004 or early 2005

Akaz

 

[DainB]

Bah, normalized benchmarks. Bah. I want BIG numbers! But it makes sense since Anand doesn't have a production board yet, so I can wait, maybe.

I'm not so sure about the 9000 series. It looks budget, it acts budget, but it's just not quite budget enough. It looks like it very well could wipe the floor with the MX series of graphics in terms of performance, but it's still a little too expensive to be attractive to OEMs. OEMs being where the big money is. Most if not all mid to lower end HPs and Compaqs come with a GF4MX 420, TNT2(gasp!), Intel integrated graphicsQ), or nForce integrated graphics. There are ATI offerings but they must be customized in. Comparing the prices Anand quoted to prices for the MX series of cards, MX is still cheaper and thats all that counts.

If I were in the market for a graphics card I'd definitely be going for an R300 when it comes out, but I'm not. I bought a Ti4400 3 months ago and OCed it to faster than 4600 speeds. I'd wager alot of other people are in the same boat or went with the ultimate budget gamer card, the 4200. I put a 4200 in my parents machine(2 month old Sony P4), upgraded it from the stock TNT2(gasp!) that came with it. I would have considered the Radeon 9000 for their machine if it were out but the result would have been the same. The Ti4200 isn't that much more expensive, offers better performance, therefore has much better longevity when it comes to newer games.

Lastly, it's still a Radeon. It's a completly new core yes. It destroys the Ti4600 in benchmarks yes. But it's still a Radeon. GeForce and Radeon are both old names, so to the un-enlightened masses the Radeon 9700 may just come across as a rehash of the same old business. Much like the GeForce line which was refreshed so many times. I'm guessing a majority of average computer users have been fed enough Best Buy/Comp USA BS and Nvidia marketing to impulsively pick up the latest GeForce off their shelves instead of the Radeon. If I'm not mistaken the NV30 won't be branded just a 'GeForce' when it gets kicked out. ATI should have chosen a new name.

Can't wait to see benches of the R300 in a P4 2.53 running with a 533Mhz FSB. Must... resist... temptations to upgrade... /drool

 

[Zugzwang152]

What average Joe is gonna wanna drop 400 bucks on a vid card though? Sure GeForce is a big name, but right now at this price, Radeon is gonna sell only to the enthusiast crowd.

 

[manko]

Well, this is great news for us consumers. This competition will give us great choices and cheaper prices. I guess ATI was sick of all those "Nvidia is the next Intel" and "Nvidia out to rule the world" articles. Now I have two choices when I want to upgrade my $99 ti 200 that I got last year (thx Hot Deals).

Slightly OT question: When is a mobile version of these things coming out? It seem like the upcoming move to .13 micron would make it ideal for a mobile chip. I haven't heard a peep about the mobile roadmap for these chips.

Anyone have any idea when we can expect notebooks with cousins of these new chips? Before Christmas?

 

[manko]

The Radeon 9000 Pro manages to offer performance very close to the Matrox Parhelia but at a $129 price tag, not too shabby at all.

Now that's just sad. (And I have been a Matrox User - for video editing features.)

 

[manko]

Okay, I'm answering my own question. (Next time, I'll read the articles first.)

MOBILE CHIP HINTS:

An even more appealing venture for the RV250 will be in the mobile market, as the core will be the basis of ATI's next-generation Radeon Mobility chip that's due out soon. Considering how it performs against the desktop GeForce4 MX, ATI can be fairly confident that they won't lose traction in the mobile market anytime soon.

How soon is soon?

 

[GrumpyMan]

Anyone know how the 2-D compares to the Parhelia on this 9700? The reviews never seem to cover this subject at first. I know that the Matrox is always better but to what extent?

 

[mchammer187]

Originally posted by: Zugzwang152
What average Joe is gonna wanna drop 400 bucks on a vid card though? Sure GeForce is a big name, but right now at this price, Radeon is gonna sell only to the enthusiast crowd.

thats exactly what they are aiming for the TI4600's market obviously

i am sure it will be $350 from somewhere a few weeks after launch heck a GF4 is still selling for $399 at best buy and down to about $310 and i dont hear anyone complaining

all i know is if i bought a GF4 Ti4600 within the last 30 days i would return it for this bad boy

if i can find a deal like i did on the 8500 from dell i will definitely jump

aiming for $250 not likely buy possible or else i'm just gonna wait for NV30 vs ATI's .13 part

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Zugzwang152
What average Joe is gonna wanna drop 400 bucks on a vid card though? Sure GeForce is a big name, but right now at this price, Radeon is gonna sell only to the enthusiast crowd.

Anyone that wants the undisputed "latest and greatest" will buy it. As Anand said, "It's worth it". Best of all - when the new Nvidia GPU is released - the price of the Radeon 9700 will drop very quickly.

 

[Haircut]

WOW!

Finally something to make me excited about hardware again. I was giggling like a school girl while reading through that review.

I can't wait for Doom 3 now!

 

[Zugzwang152]

i'm thinking Ti 4600 is just too new for Radeon 9700 to make a big dent. I mean, who has 800 bucks to drop within the span of a few months to upgrade? Even though 90% of the enthusiast crowd will WANT to, not many will be ABLE to. so many bought into gf4 that it may be economically unfeasable for them to grab another card so fast.

 

[Wolfsraider]

Originally posted by: Haircut
WOW!

Finally something to make me excited about hardware again. I was giggling like a school girl while reading through that review.

I can't wait for Doom 3 now!

rotflmao lol

true it's great ati pushed the bar it's been long overdue i hope they discover that there is a need in the market to constantly push the limits higher and maybe we will see more and more advancements in the graphics side of computing(i especially like the color enhancements and the well just drool........

now i can't wait to see how nvidia counterstrikes

yes sireee it just got interesting

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Zugzwang152
i'm thinking Ti 4600 is just too new for Radeon 9700 to make a big dent. I mean, who has 800 bucks to drop within the span of a few months to upgrade? Even though 90% of the enthusiast crowd will WANT to, not many will be ABLE to. so many bought into gf4 that it may be economically unfeasable for them to grab another card so fast.

Where there is a will, there is a way. Look for a lot of GeForce4s and Radeon 8500s going cheap on FS?T and ebay.

And a LOT of us (hint: me too) waited to upgrade knowing the R300 was just around the corner.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Zugzwang152
i'm thinking Ti 4600 is just too new for Radeon 9700 to make a big dent. I mean, who has 800 bucks to drop within the span of a few months to upgrade? Even though 90% of the enthusiast crowd will WANT to, not many will be ABLE to. so many bought into gf4 that it may be economically unfeasable for them to grab another card so fast.

then theres those of us with GF3s that haven't gotten a vid card since... november... and think that the radeon might be a tasty upgrade, since the GF4 wasn't as much an upgrade.

 

[vash]

Here is the formula for ATI to keep the crowds coming to their cards. Just keep reading and you'll see a pattern:

1. Release the fastest card on the market.
2. In about 6 months, release a card faster than the card that just beat your card that was released 6 months ago.
Rinse, repeat.

If ATI adopts the Nvidia method of releasing cards, then we're in for a good fight. By ATI putting their release cycles in between Nvidia's cycles, they are in a good position for taking cards. People don't always buy cards based on one manufacturer's cycles (there are a few here, but lets not mention names of the various flamers, trolls and fan boys), they buy when they want to buy. ATI releasing, in the middle of the summer is so f'ing smart. Lots of people with jobs looking to upgrade their comps with the latest $300 card and now they have the killer card on the market.

Everyone should see two sets of cards from Nvidia coming at the end of the year. I wouldn't be surprised to see a combo of:
1. GF4 Ti rehash of uber upgrade speeds ($299 mark).
2. GF5 part, that is at the $399 mark when released.

Its all good for the consumers. If there are more than one player in the market, we'll be good shape to choose from fast cards and low prices. I'm going to be holding off on video until at LEAST Doom ]I[ arrives. After Doom3, then we'll all know what killer card is out there. If I can hold off longer, I'll get the next-gen card AFTER Doom ]I[ arrives. Until then, CPU upgrades to SMP is a coming.

vash

 

[BD2003]

Great performance. Still, I have to admit I'm a little disappointed that theres no $199 and $299 version to match, as with the GF4.

 

[Jeff7]

OoOOoOOooooo....niiiiice....where can we get it!

 

[microAmp]

Originally posted by: BDawg

Originally posted by: Zugzwang152
yes, but unlike parhelia, radeon is going to drop in price I dont think parhelias gonna get significantly cheaper. Plus, theres no low end for matrox, theres just parhelia.

Don't you mean there's no high end for Matrox, there's just Parhelia?

LOL!

I just hope ATi can keep the 325 MHz clock speed on their card, I'll be waiting for the NV30 to roll out to see which one will I be spending my money on. Very good job by ATi, plus they'll have a few months to improve on the drivers before NV30 comes out.

 

[Aquaman]

Originally posted by: Adul
hardware you suck!

Cheers,
Aquaman <<<<<<<<<< just jumping on the bandwagon

 

[Aquaman]

Originally posted by: benchiu
Cmon now! People are complaining about the art on the heatsink/fan! Are you kidding me! They could have put a picture of Jerboy on that thing and I'd still buy one!

Of course NV30 will outperform R300, but the question is by how much, and for what premium. You know that the 9700 is going to have a price cut when NV30 hits the shelves. I wanna see how the .13 micron R300 performs against the NV30, then you'll really be comparing apples to apples.

--Ben

Word......... when the 0.13's come out is when the real comparisons should be made.

Cheers,
Aquaman

 

[TonyB]

so when will we start seeing price cuts on the GF4 Ti4600? and by how much?

 

[Vinny N]

Originally posted by: Booster
These scores are surely impressive. But what impressed me the most was the fact that the P4 2.4 was holding the card back! The Rad9700 is way ahead of its time, IMO. The card will become truly useful only when it will be paired with a powerful CPU, as the Hammer, for example.

Makes me wonder how much faster NV30 could be; wouldn't it be held back by the CPU as well? I hope we won't have to start benchmarking at 1920x1440 or 2048x1526 4x AA to see if a card is twice as fast as another, when twice as fast might not be playable

 

[NOX]

Originally posted by: Adul
:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q

I know what you mean!

I was hoping for the same from Matrox. But ATI is all fine with me.

What I like the most is that this card seems to have more to offer for the future!

 

[gregor7777]

Originally posted by: NOX

Originally posted by: Adul
:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q

I know what you mean!

I was hoping for the same stuff from Matrox. But, ATI is all fine with me.

What I like the most is that this card seems to have more to offer for the future!

Got that straight. As long as someone steps up to the plate to move things along I'm happy.