R12 Freon substitute tip for car buffs - Save yourself $$$

[Monel Funkawitz]

I was talking to a friend of mine, and with him being a car buff, was supprised he didn't know this tip. In my attempt to save the world money, here it is.

R12 freon is VERY expensive, and hard to get without the EPA licence. Propane on the other hand, is not. Propane is VERY VERY closely related to R12 freon. It has a hair lower boiling point, which means it gets a tad bit colder, but it is compatable with all types of refeigerant oils. For a R12 system on a car, I pull a vacuum, and fill it right from a propane torch adapter I made. There is no air inside the system, so it cannot explode. I've been using propane in a old truck for over 10 years. Works like a champ.

NOTE - Use your own head on this. There is a increase chance of fire, (No worse than a fuel leak) but the amount is so small it is usually of no concern, and with the additives in the propane, you can smell quite small leaks. 4oz of propane ain't much. It is ONLY compatable in R12 systems, not in R22 or R134A.

 

[rudeguy]

dont tempt these guys to handle anything flamable!

 

[FrustratedUser]

Propane?

 

[BillGates]

Interesting... I never heard of that.

 

[notfred]

Ijsut had my car converted to R134A. R134A is cheap, and it wont explode.

 

[Confused]

I saw the best number plate EVAR on a Lotus Elise a couple years back here in the UK


R12 GAS


Confused

 

[Colt45]

i got one of those little cans of R12 in the garage.. been there for years

 

[Monel Funkawitz]

Yeah, but you have to have it converted to run R134a. Orifice needs changed, oil needs changed, yadda yadda.

Propane does work though. Quite well.

 

[atom]

Pure propane isn't a substitute for R12 though. I thought you need butane in it as well?

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: Monel Funkawitz
I was talking to a friend of mine, and with him being a car buff, was supprised he didn't know this tip. In my attempt to save the world money, here it is.

R12 freon is VERY expensive, and hard to get without the EPA licence. Propane on the other hand, is not. Propane is VERY VERY closely related to R12 freon. It has a hair lower boiling point, which means it gets a tad bit colder, but it is compatable with all types of refeigerant oils. For a R12 system on a car, I pull a vacuum, and fill it right from a propane torch adapter I made. There is no air inside the system, so it cannot explode. I've been using propane in a old truck for over 10 years. Works like a champ.

NOTE - Use your own head on this. There is a increase chance of fire, (No worse than a fuel leak) but the amount is so small it is usually of no concern, and with the additives in the propane, you can smell quite small leaks. 4oz of propane ain't much. It is ONLY compatable in R12 systems, not in R22 or R134A.

Please Identify your vehicle so I can stay the hell away from you.
Propane is highly explosive and under pressure in an engine compartment doesn't seem like a very good idea, especially for shade tree mechanics. The air will come when it leaks, the sparks will come from who knows where. Like maybe inside the passenger compartment??? Smoking, Lighting a "J"..... you name it....
Take your car to a LICENSED mechanic and have it done right.
That way the R-12 is disposed of properly, you have something you don't need a DOT placard for and you're not a rolling HE shell.

Geez what some people will do to avoid paying a few bucks.....

 

[geno]

Originally posted by: notfred
Ijsut had my car converted to R134A. R134A is cheap, and it wont explode.

Doesn't cool as well as R12 from what I've read though...

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: geno

Originally posted by: notfred
Ijsut had my car converted to R134A. R134A is cheap, and it wont explode.

Doesn't cool as well as R12 from what I've read though...

Sure it does, My new FOCUS gets damn cold, quick.

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: geno

Originally posted by: notfred
Ijsut had my car converted to R134A. R134A is cheap, and it wont explode.

Doesn't cool as well as R12 from what I've read though...

Cools just fine for me. I was comfortable all last summer in 100+ degree heat.

 

[geno]

Sure it does, My new FOCUS gets damn cold, quick.

I'm not saying R134 can't get cold, but from what I've seen (people who've changed over to R134 and say it didn't cool as well as their tired R12) but directly compared, I've seen R12 as a better coolant than R134...

 

[chiwawa626]

Public Service Anouncement: Don't belive Everything you read on internet forums.

 

[Lithium381]

you guys with your AC....stop whinning, i don't have AC....:\ not that it bothers me, i just roll the window down and suck it up.....how much does it cost to get more freon?

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: geno

Sure it does, My new FOCUS gets damn cold, quick.

I'm not saying R134 can't get cold, but from what I've seen (people who've changed over to R134 and say it didn't cool as well as their tired R12) but directly compared, I've seen R12 as a better coolant than R134...

Yes it is a "better" coolant while enclosed, but released it's a toxin and environmental hazard.
How many times have we seen some dork vent it to the atmosphere? TOO MANY.
Thus, it loses some of it's advantage by being a detriment overall.
< I say some people just don't like "Change".

 

[atom]

Originally posted by: chiwawa626
Public Service Anouncement: Don't belive Everything you read on internet forums.

Whats your point? Did you even bother doing anything research before posting?

Propane in your AC system isn't some new idea.

 

[morkinva]

This strikes me as an incredibly stupid idea

 

[PsychoAndy]

Originally posted by: atom

Originally posted by: chiwawa626
Public Service Anouncement: Don't belive Everything you read on internet forums.

Whats your point? Did you even bother doing anything research before posting?

Propane in your AC system isn't some new idea.

I heard about propane years ago from my dad.

 

[thebestMAX]

BOOM!

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: morkinva
This strikes me as an incredibly stupid idea

I don't doubt that it works, but man.. it sounds like an accident waiting to happen.

As if carrying 12+ gallons of gasoline around on your vehicle isn't enough.

Although, it's only 4oz .. The fireball wouldn't be that big..

 

[Mark R]

Propane has been used as a refrigerant for years (it's called R290). It is less enviromentally damaging than the CFC or HFC based refrigerants (e.g. R12). However, pure propane is not a direct replacement for R12 - potentially you could damage the compressor. Conceivably there is an additional flammability risk, however as the refrigeration system is a sealed pressurised system, the only place iginition could occur is at a leak. Probably no more dangerous than the gasoline already carried.

I'd be more concerned about the legality of servicing your own AC. In the UK it is illegal to release any refrigerant into the atmosphere (punishable by up to 5 years in jail), similarly it is illegal to recharge a leaking refrigeration system (leaks must be identified, repaired and tested before a system can legally be recharged).

 

Nice tip Monel, but let me say something, several pounds of Propane under pressure during an accident will create a large fireball increasing your chances of serious injury and death, that said, yes this works, and works quite well.

I see many misconceptions in this thread ;

Yeah, but you have to have it converted to run R134a. Orifice needs changed, oil needs changed, yadda yadda.

Orifices do not need to be changed

I'm not saying R134 can't get cold, but from what I've seen (people who've changed over to R134 and say it didn't cool as well as their tired R12) but directly compared, I've seen R12 as a better coolant than R134...

R 134a will cool just as well if properly converted, you must drain all th old R 12 oil from the system, when charging with R 134a, fill the system to 80% capacity of the R 12 charge or reduced cooling will occur.

Yes it is a "better" coolant while enclosed, but released it's a toxin and environmental hazard.
How many times have we seen some dork vent it to the atmosphere? TOO MANY.
Thus, it loses some of it's advantage by being a detriment overall.
< I say some people just don't like "Change".

R 12 is not toic to humans or animals unless it comes into contact with flame, when eposed to flame, R 12 will release cyanide gasses which is deadly.

Eli

4 oz ?

Several pounds of refrigant buddy

16 oz per pound

 

[JC]

On the R134a conversion subject.....

I know the oil used with R12 isn't compatible with the R134a.....how do you get all of it out of the system?

Also, I know an R134a system typically runs at around twice the pressure of an R12 system, what do you do about this with a changeover?


JC