Quitting my career and getting a PhD - Thoughts?

[JamesV]

Go for it.

No wife, no kids, no 'you have to keep your job even if you hate it'... Go for it.

Maybe it is because I'm reading Walden right now, but your interests lie outside your job and you should follow your interests and not what you think what might set you up in your old age, or what society would agree should be your best path.

 

[tcsenter]

Instead of PhD, go back for MBA and utilize your knowledge/expertise to develop something that will show GIS industry where you think it should go, rather than bail because you don't like where it is going. Take a risk.

 

[SP33Demon]

Instead of PhD, go back for MBA and utilize your knowledge/expertise to develop something that will show GIS industry where you think it should go, rather than bail because you don't like where it is going. Take a risk.

This. And I have some knowledge of this diverse industry; it's continuing to expand with a bright forecast. Surprised you can't find something in the industry that is related that you may like (remote sensing/photogrammetry, geomatics, terrain analysis, geostatistics), especially with math playing an even bigger role in the industry.

 

[gorcorps]

Have you even tried getting the job you want without getting a phd? Sounds like a gigantic waste of time unless it's a 100% requirement for a job, with a guaranteed payoff. If you haven't tried to find a better position with the experience you already have, I think you're making a huge mistake.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Get the education you want on part time basis WHILE you work your current job to make a living.

I will warn you that once you get your PhD, time will come when you will feel exactly the same about the new job/career as your current one.

Job is a JOB, nobody loves their job....and even when they do, in time they don't (at some point).......that's why it's called a JOB.

Dream job or "job you love" is a myth.....fairytale type of thing.

:\

 

[njdevilsfan87]

If you have a background in mathematics and coding, you're pretty much qualified to be any sort computational engineer. That is, trying to reconstruct small portions of reality in your code via partial differential equations with various discretization and iterative techniques. It's cool stuff - the beginnings of what will eventually become the matrix.

But, you need at least a M.S. to get a "developer" position like that. A PhD is not required, though still beneficial.

Also, for this kind of work, "meshing" though directly related to this work, is also really an entire field of its own. I'm sure topology would apply there greatly. Figuring out how to take random shapes and be able to mesh those shapes with crazy yet efficient shapes/regions, so guys like I me can use that mesh as the underlying "space time continuum" for our codes is no easy task. Again, probably no PhD requirement, but likely M.S. minimum.

 

[Chaotic42]

I've been doing very light GIS and CAD work the past few years. Most of it consists of preparing presentation maps with little analysis, so I don't know exactly what you do. However, I am sick of GIS and surveying and absolutely detest my career path.

Something similar. It's definitely a good job, I don't want to make it sound like it isn't. It's just not interesting to me and I absolutely have to be interested in what I do. It's just the kind of person I am.

There will be people your age in the graduate program. Not the majority, but you won't be out of place.

I made $20k a year plus tuition and health insurance as a teaching assistant while I was in graduate school. Combine that with a $10-15k internship in the summer and you're making $30k a year. It's very different than making $100k a year, but you can live decent off it. You don't have to eat ramen every day and live in a shitty apartment with 5 people if you're careful with your money.

You probably won't be living in the dorms as most school reserve those for people 18-25.

Graduate school is a great time to network with creative, ambitious people (a rare breed in industry). I've seen a lot of people graduate (or drop out) and start their own company.

When I was at my last job, we all remarked on occasion that we were somewhere special. We were very close to, if not the best at our specific subset of GIS. We worked brutal hours sometimes and a lot of people couldn't hack it. It was enjoyable, intense, and rewarding. The people were awesome. Unfortunately we were bought out and our office closed. It was hard to deal with. I left right before it closed, the first one of us to get a new job. GIS jobs are really hard to get around here.

My current job (again, an excellent job) doesn't excite me like this. The fire isn't there. Maybe it's me, maybe it's the job, maybe a little of both. I need something into which I can pour myself. I haven't had a vacation in seven years. I have very little social life (outside of my old coworkers, people I'd give a kidney to if they needed).

I had a certain PHD that was an effiency expert that a corporation hired about 5 years ago to do an evaluation for proof to shut down a high end tool room over the objections of the Senior Engineers working on site.

He didn't even know the machines he was viewing, he actually at one point even asked what Harding Precision Lathe was, he was walking around making a review of the shop at the time internally and had no idea what equipment he was looking at and went and looked it up later I imagine.

Corporate HQ just wanted him to file a report so they could bust out what little Union (IAM) where left there.

I was the shop steward at the time, we had just gotten the Corporation STAR Certification bith OSHA, one of the other guys there at the time had actually mentioned they were up to somthing like that at the time.

This is why the high end trades are dying.

Most High Schools do not even support them these days just for insurance reasons.

I went through a GM one when I did it, and I wasn't even working for GM. The company I was working for did did GM work and my dad was a Foreman at the plant at the time, we were basically allowed to participate in their Apprenticeship program without being paid to take the classes in the evenings like the GM guys were. All those GM plants in that area have been torn down, I went back there for my fathers funeral a few years ago, and there were basically almost a quarter of a million peoples jobs by my estimate that had been completely eradicated in the area from 1984 to 2010.

Good luck with that Post Hole Digger thing, I'd still to this day like to shove that over-educated assholes head straight up his ass for ruining the career I had.

Similar situation with us, but change PhD to MBA. Cartography, especially what we did, was an art form. It took time, knowledge, and care. There's a reason we had titles like apprentice, journeyman, and senior cartographer. The current way that cartography seems to be heading is towards low-quality automation and IT. Everyone wants a dynamic map on their cell phone and it's okay if it's not high quality. It just needs to be useable. It's this that I dislike.

Instead of PhD, go back for MBA and utilize your knowledge/expertise to develop something that will show GIS industry where you think it should go, rather than bail because you don't like where it is going. Take a risk.

Unfortunately it isn't a battle I can win. I'm like an old man longing for days past. The PhD is a much larger risk. Very much larger.

And I have some knowledge of this diverse industry; it's continuing to expand with a bright forecast. Surprised you can't find something in the industry that is related that you may like (remote sensing/photogrammetry, geomatics, terrain analysis, geostatistics), especially with math playing an even bigger role in the industry.

Yes, it's bright, but where is it headed ultimately? Most of the jobs I see are for doing a lot of different GIS-related things, none of which are explored too deeply. I understand that it's hard for you all to see why I'm unhappy, especially you being someone in GIS. I just don't enjoy the facets of GIS which seem to be hot right now. I'm like an old man. I'd be happy with a bunch of stoned-out old hippies in their 60s working with FORTRAN and trying to make the perfect program... or in the case of GIS, map.

I could move and get a job doing something close to what I used to, but why not try for something bigger? More difficult? More meaningful? I'm too young to be having a midlife crisis....

Have you even tried getting the job you want without getting a phd? Sounds like a gigantic waste of time unless it's a 100% requirement for a job, with a guaranteed payoff. If you haven't tried to find a better position with the experience you already have, I think you're making a huge mistake.

Researcher/Professor? Definitely need the PhD.

Besides, it something I want to do. This thread has worked out much better than I could have hoped. It's becoming more and more clear that I should pursue what I want. I doubt I'll make it much past 50 or 60. If I don't go for what I want now, I never will. The concept of toiling away at a job I don't love just doesn't appeal to me. What's the point in life if you're bored with what you do?

 

[Ns1]

IMO if you got money you should go for it. no wife no kids = no restrictions.

 

[Farmer]

Can you make money with a PhD in topology? I don't know anything about it, but it sounds like an esoteric discipline. In any case, I suppose you really have nothing to lose except money, and that's not worth much. If you think that would help you enjoy life more, I'd go for it.

One of the biggest mistakes is to do a Ph.D. for possible income. Especially in math, you will never finish, and you'll definitely make more if you just stay the course. In the sciences (MUCH less so in engineering, engineering Ph.D.s are like high pressure shitty jobs that pay nothing, but I digress), you really have to absolutely love doing it.

Oh, and I would not have any concerns regarding math Ph.D.s finding jobs, especially if you've demonstrated your abilities (i.e., social/leadership) outside of academia by having a prior career. What you studied exactly does not really matter at all, as most theoretical math Ph.D.s are high IQ.

To the OP: Aren't most math Ph.D.s funded by TA-ship? I think that's the standard route. You'll get tuition and a (meager) stipend.

 

[mnewsham]

My dad did it at 44. Went from making ~$80k a year in IT. To ~$40k a year as an Astrophysicist. He enjoys what he does now though, so there is that.

 

[Imp]

My current job (again, an excellent job) doesn't excite me like this. The fire isn't there. Maybe it's me, maybe it's the job, maybe a little of both. I need something into which I can pour myself. I haven't had a vacation in seven years. I have very little social life (outside of my old coworkers, people I'd give a kidney to if they needed).

Yes, it's bright, but where is it headed ultimately? Most of the jobs I see are for doing a lot of different GIS-related things, none of which are explored too deeply. I understand that it's hard for you all to see why I'm unhappy, especially you being someone in GIS. I just don't enjoy the facets of GIS which seem to be hot right now. I'm like an old man. I'd be happy with a bunch of stoned-out old hippies in their 60s working with FORTRAN and trying to make the perfect program... or in the case of GIS, map.

What kind of hours are you working to not have a vacation in 7 years?

I'm in a similar place: engineer, and there are jobs, I just don't want any of them anymore. Finished my graduate degree, got sent right back into doing the bitch work, and something woke up in me. I've been holding out for 2 years now and I have to drag myself to work everyday just for the paycheck.

Oh, and I'm not sure where GIS is headed, but we had a LIDAR presentation at my company a while ago: drive car with camera/laser system, it records thousands of very accurate georeferenced points per second, can map an entire area in 3D driving through at 100 km/h.

 

[Mide]

Good thing is that you don't have a bunch of expenses like a wife/GF. Have you been saving up money for this adventure of yours?

Of all PhDs I've met throughout the years, most of them said the same thing. You gotta love the subject, love research, and are good at writing. You'll be under some Professor and will be their bitch for 5-7 years. You'll have a TA/GA position so tuition will be reduced but you'll be teaching classes and researching and doing anything else your Prof wants done.

When you get out don't expect a job or money though...but you can hang out in a Uni environment for a long time.

Main thing is that it sounds like you really want to do this, so yeah go for it. Hopefully your expectations are all about completing this goal and not about money or a fancy career.

 

[TridenT]

Well... I'm not sure what you're going for. You could make $165k+/yr as a math professor at a quite a few universities but that's not teaching. It's almost all research and about reaching bullshit metrics. So, if you're down for life draining work (and you do work a lot...) then math professor sounds great.


You'll start out at less though. Only once they want to keep you rather than have you leave and go off to industry will they bump your pay significantly.

Have you talked to many people who do the job you want? Do you know what it's really like? A lot of people I know don't feel like they get their worth out of a phd. You do highly skilled work and get a very minimal ride. At least, that's what I've been told. I don't have a phd.

 

[_Rick_]

Make sure to vet the PhD program/advisors well before committing.
Check how much PhD students of these advisors got published, get their opinions on what they would have done differently with regard to their advisors, look whether your subject truly interests your advisor. see what kind of work the other PhD students did/are doing on projects, what kind of projects are being applied for, and whether those match your interests.

If you want to go into research, the PhD is a formality, being published, and finding your place in the scientific community you want to work in, are what really counts. For your PhD to have any actual value, you need to make sure you have the best chances to make those contacts. This is usually why a PhD might take up to 5 or 6 years to get, because people want to make sure you make those contacts that allow you to be successful, before sending you out into the world.
And, you will start to hate what you're doing. Both what you're doing as part of your own dissertation, and as part of project work for your professor. At best it'll be a love-hate relationship

The best way is to write directly to people who you think are doing exactly what you want to do, and quiz them. Especially people who have been doing their PhD for 4-5 years, and are starting to look for work.

 

[alkemyst]

It's a big life event and only you can know for sure.

I sold off all my shit and went back to college at 30 for my Computer Science degree and it was worth it to me now. At the time though, the market tanked right after I graduated and I was working for only $17.68/yr (a little under 37k) for about a year until a real job came up.

 

[njdevilsfan87]

And, you will start to hate what you're doing. Both what you're doing as part of your own dissertation, and as part of project work for your professor. At best it'll be a love-hate relationship

The best way is to write directly to people who you think are doing exactly what you want to do, and quiz them. Especially people who have been doing their PhD for 4-5 years, and are starting to look for work.

Here I am ready to fail this quiz!

I am entering my 5th year this fall, and am still at the tail end of graduate student depression where I'm wondering if I really need the degree. I've by now realized I can do the work I want to without the PhD. But the PhD is beneficial. For example, I may become the lead of some of a project within a year or two as opposed to a (successful) career of working under others.

Now I know there isn't a single person out there who doesn't question if what they are doing is a complete waste of time. But in grad school, be prepared for this to start happening every single day, actually, every single waking moment at some point. Combine that with a potentially poor relationship with the advisor, a very low pay compared to the real world, and just feeling like you would be happier anywhere else, it can become a very depressing situation. And simply just walking away is very tough. Because you'll know that walking away results in odds being 100 to 1 that you will never go back and finish.

And as a final note, my experience does not speak for all. Half seem to go through what I went through, while the other half end up loving grad school all the way through.

I believe I "survived" though. I feel like I am "over the hill" in grad school with the finish line in sight now. But, I had to remove myself (physically) from grad school itself. I needed a total change of scenery and I'm now working elsewhere slowly working myself into the career position, while still working on my degree. I am a lot happier now commuting for 3 hours of the day (via carpool) in total right now than I was a few months ago commuting maybe half an hour total to the university. I am not sure if my current position will work out long term yet, but I can say for certain there is absolutely no chance I show up to work at the university again. I sort of have that luxury with my classes being finished and my remainder work being all custom computational (can do it from anywhere).