Quite possibly the most bizarre screed on Firefly I've ever seen

[Queasy]

Link

This is a really long rant about Joss Whedon's Firefly. Why? Because I'm angry and I think it is really important that feminists don't leave popular culture out of the equation. Especially considering that popular culture is increasingly being influenced by pornography.

***

I have become increasingly interested in examining Joss Whedon?s work from a feminist perspective since I had a conversation with another lesbian feminist sister at the International Feminist Summit about whether Joss was a feminist. I am really quite shocked by how readily Joss is accepted as a feminist, and that his works are widely considered to be feminist. I decided to start re-watching Buffy: The Vampire Slayer and also to watch Firefly and the movie Serenity.

I have to say that now that I have subjected myself to the horror that is Firefly, I really am beyond worried about how much men hate us, given that this was written by a man who calls himself a feminist.

It gets much weirder....click through for the rest.

 

[jonks]

"The first scene opens in a war with Mal and Zoe. Zoe runs around calling Mal ?sir? and taking orders off him. I roll my eyes. Not a good start."

Yeah, calling your military commander sir is just crazywhackfunky. I've read enough.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: sirjonk
"The first scene opens in a war with Mal and Zoe. Zoe runs around calling Mal ?sir? and taking orders off him. I roll my eyes. Not a good start."

Yeah, calling your military commander sir is just crazywhackfunky. I've read enough.

Never mind that Wash is pretty bloody whipped.

I can only assume the whole thing is written as satire.

 

[amoeba]

well I disagree with her assertion that prostitution is rape so obviously I'm going to disagree with the rest of it.

 

[amoeba]

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Originally posted by: sirjonk
"The first scene opens in a war with Mal and Zoe. Zoe runs around calling Mal ?sir? and taking orders off him. I roll my eyes. Not a good start."

Yeah, calling your military commander sir is just crazywhackfunky. I've read enough.

Never mind that Wash is pretty bloody whipped.

I can only assume the whole thing is written as satire.

I don't think its satire. Just read the comments.

 

[Lonyo]

they ignore that he *tries* to set a mysoginistic scene in which to frame strong women against

Probably the best way to sum up the problems with it.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Originally posted by: Queasy
Link

This is a really long rant about Joss Whedon's Firefly. Why? Because I'm angry and I think it is really important that feminists don't leave popular culture out of the equation. Especially considering that popular culture is increasingly being influenced by pornography.

***

I have become increasingly interested in examining Joss Whedon?s work from a feminist perspective since I had a conversation with another lesbian feminist sister at the International Feminist Summit about whether Joss was a feminist. I am really quite shocked by how readily Joss is accepted as a feminist, and that his works are widely considered to be feminist. I decided to start re-watching Buffy: The Vampire Slayer and also to watch Firefly and the movie Serenity.

I have to say that now that I have subjected myself to the horror that is Firefly, I really am beyond worried about how much men hate us, given that this was written by a man who calls himself a feminist.

It gets much weirder....click through for the rest.

I see your problem. You're linking to LiveJournal. That pretty much ruins any credibility that the source might have had. 😉

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

"So tell me KayLee, you ever been raped?"

The character that black dude plays in that one episode is one of my favorite performance anywhere 😀

 

[boatillo]

Wow, just wow.

I generally dislike people as a whole, but I find it hard to believe someone could be this grossly warped. By someone, I mean the author of that diatribe.

Here is my rant against the non-feminist, feminist Joss Whedon: who cares? I like sci-fi, I liked Firefly, Serenity, and I hope they make a sequel. Watching a movie that...why even bother, I would post on that site but I am afraid they would find my house and burn me to death with flaming bras. Psychos.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

???

 

[thraashman]

I decided to comment. I doubt she'll post it, so I'll post here what I wrote.

It seems to me that you have alot of hatred and anger that blinds certain views to you. For example, you indicate you think of Inara's comforting of Book as prostitution. Most people would recognize that it has nothing to do with her profession. In that situation she was just being a friendly human being. She lives in fairly close quarters with these people, it's only natural that she would form a bond of friendship. Just because she rents the pod doesn't mean she's going to be cold and emotionless to the other people aboard. Simon's reluctance to do that at first is the reason for his outcast nature through most of the show. Also it seems fairly obvious that Inara's profession of a companion being legal and regulated is Whedon's allegory at a morally ambiguous future. This is also shown by the fact that criminals are often heroes and the central government is evil and corrupt. In a future like this, a profession such as prostitution would fit in. But it appears quite clear that Whedon does not think that a good thing.

Mal however is actually very feminist in most of the show. You do nothing but complain about Inara's chosen profession, but when Mal is repulsed by it enough to refer to her as a whore, you villify Mal. I think it's obvious from reading your essay that you are in fact quite sexist. Because you villify men for their bad parts, yet dismiss that Inara being a companion is her choice and instead call it rape.

I should also note that you obviously fail to see the big brother relationship that Mal has towards Kaylee. Throughout the show Mal has different protective relationships with each crew memeber. With Zoe as a commanding officer, Kaylee as a big brother, Wash as a best friend, Inara as a love interest, Jayne as a holster (since Jayne is basically a hired gun), Simon as a protector, and even Book who has an almost father/son or shepherd/lost sheep relationship with Mal. My point there being that the duct tape comment was meant in a loving fashion joking on Kaylee's indominatble spirit vs Mal's often pessimistic view.

I'm sorry, but from readin your essay here I have to say you're not a feminist. You just hate men. There's a difference.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

I couldn't make it through that. I'm a feminist; I'm was one class away from a gender studies minor in college. This person is completely full of shit. Feminism is about equality; the author thinks that feminism is about dominance. If a man takes orders from a man, that's fine, but as soon as a female has to take orders from a man, it's anti-feminist. That's pure horse shit! Let's ignore the pro-feminist message about women serving in the infantry in the future and focus on the fact that the commanding officer happens to have a Y chromosome... God, I hate stupid people so much. This actually made me cry. I'm not joking; I had to rub my eyes in disbelief after reading the opening lines. Well, turns out I had some sort of lotion on my hands, and apparently my eyes don't want to be moisturized cause it burns like hell.

If I go blind, I'm suing this person.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
"So tell me KayLee, you ever been raped?"

The character that black dude plays in that one episode is one of my favorite performance anywhere 😀

In the original script for Serenity, I guess he was actually supposed to be the bad guy instead of the person that they got to play "the Operative." Universal wanted someone with "star power" for the role, though.

What star power? I never saw that Operative guy in anything other than Serenity.

 

[Shawn]

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Originally posted by: sirjonk
"The first scene opens in a war with Mal and Zoe. Zoe runs around calling Mal ?sir? and taking orders off him. I roll my eyes. Not a good start."

Yeah, calling your military commander sir is just crazywhackfunky. I've read enough.

Never mind that Wash is pretty bloody whipped.

I can only assume the whole thing is written as satire.

It's not satire. This chick is wacked.

 

[PKPunk]

Her husband, Wash, talking about how he likes to watch her bathe. Let me just say now that I have never personally known of a healthy relationship between a white man and a woman of colour. I have known a black woman whose white husband would strangle and bash her while her young children watched. My white grandfather liked black women because they were ?exotic?, and he did not, could not treat women, especially women of colour, like human beings. I grew up watching my great aunts, my aunty and my mother all treated like shit by their white husbands, the men they loved. So you will forgive me for believing that the character, Wash, is a rapist and an abuser, particularly considering that he treats Zoe like an object and possession.

I'm blown away by this comment on interracial couples. I'll have to let some of my friends know that their husbands are perverts who only married them "they were ?exotic?".

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Originally posted by: thraashman
I decided to comment. I doubt she'll post it, so I'll post here what I wrote.

It seems to me that you have alot of hatred and anger that blinds certain views to you. For example, you indicate you think of Inara's comforting of Book as prostitution. Most people would recognize that it has nothing to do with her profession. In that situation she was just being a friendly human being. She lives in fairly close quarters with these people, it's only natural that she would form a bond of friendship. Just because she rents the pod doesn't mean she's going to be cold and emotionless to the other people aboard. Simon's reluctance to do that at first is the reason for his outcast nature through most of the show. Also it seems fairly obvious that Inara's profession of a companion being legal and regulated is Whedon's allegory at a morally ambiguous future. This is also shown by the fact that criminals are often heroes and the central government is evil and corrupt. In a future like this, a profession such as prostitution would fit in. But it appears quite clear that Whedon does not think that a good thing.

Mal however is actually very feminist in most of the show. You do nothing but complain about Inara's chosen profession, but when Mal is repulsed by it enough to refer to her as a whore, you villify Mal. I think it's obvious from reading your essay that you are in fact quite sexist. Because you villify men for their bad parts, yet dismiss that Inara being a companion is her choice and instead call it rape.

I should also note that you obviously fail to see the big brother relationship that Mal has towards Kaylee. Throughout the show Mal has different protective relationships with each crew memeber. With Zoe as a commanding officer, Kaylee as a big brother, Wash as a best friend, Inara as a love interest, Jayne as a holster (since Jayne is basically a hired gun), Simon as a protector, and even Book who has an almost father/son or shepherd/lost sheep relationship with Mal. My point there being that the duct tape comment was meant in a loving fashion joking on Kaylee's indominatble spirit vs Mal's often pessimistic view.

I'm sorry, but from readin your essay here I have to say you're not a feminist. You just hate men. There's a difference.

:thumbsup:

Well said. She won't post it, though, because your name is thraashman and that makes you part of the male-centered cockocracy that is keeping womyn down. Should have posted as thraashmyn to show your solidarity with the "death to men happy fun time" gynocracy.

 

[thraashman]

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy

Originally posted by: thraashman
I decided to comment. I doubt she'll post it, so I'll post here what I wrote.

It seems to me that you have alot of hatred and anger that blinds certain views to you. For example, you indicate you think of Inara's comforting of Book as prostitution. Most people would recognize that it has nothing to do with her profession. In that situation she was just being a friendly human being. She lives in fairly close quarters with these people, it's only natural that she would form a bond of friendship. Just because she rents the pod doesn't mean she's going to be cold and emotionless to the other people aboard. Simon's reluctance to do that at first is the reason for his outcast nature through most of the show. Also it seems fairly obvious that Inara's profession of a companion being legal and regulated is Whedon's allegory at a morally ambiguous future. This is also shown by the fact that criminals are often heroes and the central government is evil and corrupt. In a future like this, a profession such as prostitution would fit in. But it appears quite clear that Whedon does not think that a good thing.

Mal however is actually very feminist in most of the show. You do nothing but complain about Inara's chosen profession, but when Mal is repulsed by it enough to refer to her as a whore, you villify Mal. I think it's obvious from reading your essay that you are in fact quite sexist. Because you villify men for their bad parts, yet dismiss that Inara being a companion is her choice and instead call it rape.

I should also note that you obviously fail to see the big brother relationship that Mal has towards Kaylee. Throughout the show Mal has different protective relationships with each crew memeber. With Zoe as a commanding officer, Kaylee as a big brother, Wash as a best friend, Inara as a love interest, Jayne as a holster (since Jayne is basically a hired gun), Simon as a protector, and even Book who has an almost father/son or shepherd/lost sheep relationship with Mal. My point there being that the duct tape comment was meant in a loving fashion joking on Kaylee's indominatble spirit vs Mal's often pessimistic view.

I'm sorry, but from readin your essay here I have to say you're not a feminist. You just hate men. There's a difference.

:thumbsup:

Well said. She won't post it, though, because your name is thraashman and that makes you part of the male-centered cockocracy that is keeping womyn down. Should have posted as thraashmyn to show your solidarity with the "death to men happy fun time" gynocracy.

I don't have Livejournal. I posted it as anonymous.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Wow....what a jaded feminazi loontard. She may have spent weeks watching the series and reading the script, but it doesn't mean shit if the prevailing style of sarcastic humor ("duct tape") and artistic direction (violent sci-fi universe) are lost on her.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2
Wow....what a jaded feminazi loontard. She may have spent weeks watching the series and reading the script, but it doesn't mean shit if the prevailing style of sarcastic humor ("duct tape") and artistic direction (violent sci-fi universe) are lost on her.

Yup, the main problem is that she claims Whedon is mysogynistic because of a hundred things which stem from one: He set the show in the wild west.
What the hell would you expect from a wild west show? The writer seems to have missed that one main and massive aspect of the show and then gone on a rant from then.
Considering the setting, you could argue that it's anything BUT mysogynistic.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Did she say anything in her rant about Mal's treatment of Saffron in the episode, "Our Mrs. Reynolds?"

 

[BigJ]

I believe in the radical feminist definition of rape. That is that men who pressure women into sex are rapists. That women who are pressured are not freely consenting and are therefore being raped. There have been a few discussions recently in the rad fem blogosphere debating whether all male initiated sex is rape, given that women are politically, socially and economically subordinate to men. So, in my understanding of Joss Whedon as a rapist is hinges on my definition of rape. I would argue that most 'sex' between men and women, in the contemporary 'sex-positive', pornographic, male-supremacist culture, is rape.

So, I think Joss Whedon is a rapist because it is impossible for me to believe that a man who produces a show like Firefly, a man who openly objectifies women in his interviews, a man who based the character of Xander Harris (a pro-porn, sex-obsessed teenage male in Buffy) it is imposible for me to believe that this man does not pressure his wife for sex. If he has pressured his wife for sex even if she eventually consented he is still a rapist. I know far too many women who have been, and are being, forced, coerced, manipulated, pressured into sex that they do not want with their male partners. I'd bet anything that Joss is one of these men. And if he is then he is a rapist in my books.

You hear that? We're all rapists!

 

[datalink7]

I believe in the radical feminist definition of rape. That is that men who pressure women into sex are rapists. That women who are pressured are not freely consenting and are therefore being raped. There have been a few discussions recently in the rad fem blogosphere debating whether all male initiated sex is rape, given that women are politically, socially and economically subordinate to men. So, in my understanding of Joss Whedon as a rapist is hinges on my definition of rape. I would argue that most 'sex' between men and women, in the contemporary 'sex-positive', pornographic, male-supremacist culture, is rape.

oooookkkkkkk.....:roll:

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: PKPunk

Her husband, Wash, talking about how he likes to watch her bathe. Let me just say now that I have never personally known of a healthy relationship between a white man and a woman of colour. I have known a black woman whose white husband would strangle and bash her while her young children watched. My white grandfather liked black women because they were ?exotic?, and he did not, could not treat women, especially women of colour, like human beings. I grew up watching my great aunts, my aunty and my mother all treated like shit by their white husbands, the men they loved. So you will forgive me for believing that the character, Wash, is a rapist and an abuser, particularly considering that he treats Zoe like an object and possession.

I'm blown away by this comment on interracial couples. I'll have to let some of my friends know that their husbands are perverts who only married them "they were ?exotic?".

Yeah, this was what probably...I don't know if offended is the word but I'll go with...offended me the most with her screed. I'm a white man married to a black woman. We've been together since 1997. Married since 2001. Two kids. We have our arguments and issues just like normal married couples. At no time have I ever raised my hand in anger at her though. I've never been abusive toward her. We know other interracial couples that have similar experiences. We know all white couples that are in abusive relationships. We know all black couples that are in abusive relationships.

For her to suggest that white men are incapable of treating black women properly based on her very narrow view of experience is just as offensive as what she accuses Joss Whedon of.

Honestly, it sounds more like the women in her family have a history of getting in relationships with abusive men not all that different from other strings of related women who get into abusive relationships or parents who abuse children who grow up to abuse their children, etc.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven

Originally posted by: Queasy
Link

This is a really long rant about Joss Whedon's Firefly. Why? Because I'm angry and I think it is really important that feminists don't leave popular culture out of the equation. Especially considering that popular culture is increasingly being influenced by pornography.

***

I have become increasingly interested in examining Joss Whedon?s work from a feminist perspective since I had a conversation with another lesbian feminist sister at the International Feminist Summit about whether Joss was a feminist. I am really quite shocked by how readily Joss is accepted as a feminist, and that his works are widely considered to be feminist. I decided to start re-watching Buffy: The Vampire Slayer and also to watch Firefly and the movie Serenity.

I have to say that now that I have subjected myself to the horror that is Firefly, I really am beyond worried about how much men hate us, given that this was written by a man who calls himself a feminist.

It gets much weirder....click through for the rest.

I see your problem. You're linking to LiveJournal. That pretty much ruins any credibility that the source might have had. 😉

Heh. I'm not familiar with LiveJournal so I'll take your word for it. 🙂

 

[ShockwaveVT]

Originally posted by: thraashman
I decided to comment. I doubt she'll post it, so I'll post here what I wrote.

I doubt she'll post it either, basically she states in her userinfo that she only allows comments that agree with her point of view.