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Quieting down my 74G Raptor

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Originally posted by: oldfart
Originally posted by: Bar81
Originally posted by: oldfart
My very quiet PC turned very noisy after I installed a WD 74G Raptor. Not spindle noise. The 10K rpm made my whole case vibrate/resonate. The PC now had a howl/hum sound that drove me crazy. I removed the drive from the 3.5' bay and put it in a 5.25" bay with some standard drive adapters. This helped quite a bit, but it was still there.

I ordered and installed a Zalman ZM-2HC2 NP(Noise Prevention)Heatpipe HDD Cooler. It is also a 3.5 -> 5.25 adapter. It adds heatpipe cooling, but more importantly, rubber isolation standoffs.

Big difference. Cant hear it at all now. I'm back to "is it on?" quiet. Ahhhh... 😀
Click to expand...

It *would* be a great solution except you just turned your drive bay into an oven. There's no active cooling and the drive needs some. Then you're introducing heat under/around your optical(s) which can overheat them and ruin them. The Zalman is a poor product because it's not really a solution but rather solves one problem (noise) and creates other heat related ones. If you want to quiet a Raptor, you *have* to put it into an active cooling situation if you intend for it not to die prematurely. Here's a couple of solutions:

http://hanisbottomline.com/pics/DSCF0016.JPG

http://hanisbottomline.com/pics/DSCF0018.JPG

http://hanisbottomline.com/pics/DSCF0019.JPG
Click to expand...
I dont see active cooling in any of those shots. Active cooling = fans = noise, so that is not for me anyway. I like the suspended method, but am skeptical of the drive placed on the bottom of the case on foam. That looks like a very hot setup. The drive has no contact to sink any heat away.

Anyway, this is not a SCSI drive, it is a Raptor which according to SR, is not a hot running drive and needs no special cooling. My goal was silence, not a cooling mod. It worked very well for that purpose.

forgot to mention. It has ELIMINATED the seek noise as well! The Raptor had a pretty noisy seek to it. It is gone now. 😀 😀
Click to expand...

You need glasses pretty badly apparently. You see those black things to the right of the drives. They're called fans; in fact they're Papst fans fanmated so your theory about fans=noise is wrong. And the Raptor is not cool running, put your hand on it next time after it's been going for a while and let me know how refreshing it feels. Silence does not mean you have to overheat and kill components. My case is silent but everything is also *properly* cooled.

btw if your Zalman has eliminated the Raptor's seek noise then you are running FAR from a silent setup.
 
If any of my drives start to heat up, I try to put them in a bay that has a case fan behind it
in my Antec case. The hottest drives would go there such as a Raptor.

I haven't bought one yet, but I was thinking of going for the 74gig one since it has fluid bearings unlike the 36gig one. I'm not sure though. It is alot of money for a drive right now when other SATA drives are going for around 70cents a gig!
 
Pics dont show the fans very well. Now that I look closer, I can see it on the 2nd and 3rd shot, not the first one. You should try to ge ta better angle. You are familiar with what is in your case, no one else is.

btw if your Zalman has eliminated the Raptor's seek noise then you are running FAR from a silent setup.
Click to expand...
Well, since I am sitting right next to the rig, and you are not, I guess I will have to the judge. And when did I say silent? I said very quiet. Silent would be no moving parts, no fans, solid state storage. Since your shots show fans and hard drives, you are not running a silent system either.

BTW, how is the noise on the X800? Are there any quiet cooling mods/products for it yet?
 
Originally posted by: oldfart
Pics dont show the fans very well. Now that I look closer, I can see it on the 2nd and 3rd shot, not the first one. You should try to ge ta better angle. You are familiar with what is in your case, no one else is.

btw if your Zalman has eliminated the Raptor's seek noise then you are running FAR from a silent setup.
Click to expand...
Well, since I am sitting right next to the rig, and you are not, I guess I will have to the judge. And when did I say silent? I said very quiet. Silent would be no moving parts, no fans, solid state storage. Since your shots show fans and hard drives, you are not running a silent system either.

BTW, how is the noise on the X800? Are there any quiet cooling mods/products for it yet?
Click to expand...

Actually with the Acoustipack Deluxe V2 it is silent (my version of silent is I can't hear it at 2AM with everything in the world dead) from a foot away where I sit. However if I want to overclock I have to crank the fans up a bit and then you can hear them. The X800 I just got rid of, but, damn, that thing was loud. Great card, far cry was gorgeous in widescreen 1280*768 with everything cranked up and medium AA/AF, but damn that noise drove me up the wall. Right now I'm just using a 9800 with a AC VGA Silencer. I probably won't be using the 6800GT I have on order with BB until AC releases their next gen silencers which should be middle of next month apparently.

If you really value quiet you should really invest in some Papst fans and Zalman fanmates. It will keep you from killing your components prematurely.
 
Originally posted by: Dman877
Most good cases come standard with rubber hard drive mounts now anyway. No need to shell out 30$.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately those rubber mounts don't do much. They quiet the drives some but they're very ineffective for anything else. Silencing a drive like a Raptor takes some extreme measures like mounting it on a foam block or in a foam bed, suspending it, or something along those lines. But then you get into the whole heat issue. I love silence but I really hate how time consuming and expensive it is to make a near silent or silent rig.
 
I run a 9800P with a AC Silencer as well. Very nice product. I think they have one coming out for the X800. I've seen a pic of it on the HIS brand X800. The Panaflo's I'm using are working well for me. I use SpeedFan to automatically vary the speed based on CPU and case temps. When the fans are in low rpm mode (like now), You cant hear them at all. When they spin up, they do get louder. For this to occur, I'm playing games, which is OK since I dont hear it over the speakers anyway, or when I'm doing a video encode. Usually, I start it going and leave to do something else.

What are the temps of your Raptors during normal desktop apps? Speedfan shows mine as 34 -35C.
 
I dislike the rubber mounts/suspension becasue they take away any cooling advantage the hard disk recieves by direct contact with the case. This was explored at SPCR and is used extensivly by them but it raises drive temps by 5-10C and then requires some active cooling, abeit a very low RPM fan which can be very quiet. This is why I was attracted to a load barrier like the $80 smart drive 2002's. The drive still maintians contact with the case (aka heat sink) but has thick metal it's surrounded by to absorb noises. There is really no silent system with moving parts, just turn it on at 4:30 am and assuming you don't live below train tracks you'll always hear something, but this is as close as it gets. I have also found notebook drives which I use in my office computer to be very quiet if suspended but they cost 2x the money and perform half as good as a regular 3.25 7200rpm drive. Quiet must be a high priority to justify thier placement.
 
OK, this is exactly why I like my Sonata case. The rubber insulates the vibration, and the 120 mm slow fan right in front of the drives, actively cools the drive. Quiet and cool......
 
Originally posted by: Zebo
I dislike the rubber mounts/suspension becasue they take away any cooling advantage the hard disk recieves by direct contact with the case. This was explored at SPCR and is used extensivly by them but it raises drive temps by 5-10C and then requires some active cooling, abeit a very low RPM fan which can be very quiet. This is why I was attracted to a load barrier like the $80 smart drive 2002's. The drive still maintians contact with the case (aka heat sink) but has thick metal it's surrounded by to absorb noises. There is really no silent system with moving parts, just turn it on at 4:30 am and assuming you don't live below train tracks you'll always hear something, but this is as close as it gets. I have also found notebook drives which I use in my office computer to be very quiet if suspended but they cost 2x the money and perform half as good as a regular 3.25 7200rpm drive. Quiet must be a high priority to justify thier placement.
Click to expand...
I use SpeedFan to control my fan RPM. It also reads HD temp. My Raptor runs THE SAME temp suspended in the Zalman Heatpipe as it did when it was in a 3.5" bay with direct metal contact. It does not run any hotter.
 
Originally posted by: oldfart
Originally posted by: Zebo
I dislike the rubber mounts/suspension becasue they take away any cooling advantage the hard disk recieves by direct contact with the case. This was explored at SPCR and is used extensivly by them but it raises drive temps by 5-10C and then requires some active cooling, abeit a very low RPM fan which can be very quiet. This is why I was attracted to a load barrier like the $80 smart drive 2002's. The drive still maintians contact with the case (aka heat sink) but has thick metal it's surrounded by to absorb noises. There is really no silent system with moving parts, just turn it on at 4:30 am and assuming you don't live below train tracks you'll always hear something, but this is as close as it gets. I have also found notebook drives which I use in my office computer to be very quiet if suspended but they cost 2x the money and perform half as good as a regular 3.25 7200rpm drive. Quiet must be a high priority to justify thier placement.
Click to expand...
I use SpeedFan to control my fan RPM. It also reads HD temp. My Raptor runs THE SAME temp suspended in the Zalman Heatpipe as it did when it was in a 3.5" bay with direct metal contact. It does not run any hotter.
Click to expand...

I rest my drives on sorbothane at the bottom of my case... I don't know how hot they get though. I'm sure they'll be fine until they aren't. Hard drives are cheap, and silence is golden.
 
I'd like to see what peoples Raptor or any other HD temps are. Speedfan will give you a HD temp reading if your drive supports it.

My Raptor at a cold boot after being off all night is 20C. It settles in @ 35C after awhile during normal desktop use. This is with very minimal case airflow. It was the same when mounted in the 3.5" bay.

Bar81
Here is the HIS X800 card. The first time I saw an AC Silencer, it was on the HIS 9800P. AC later started selling the cooler separately. Hopefully, they will do the same for the X800.
 
Originally posted by: oldfart
I'd like to see what peoples Raptor or any other HD temps are. Speedfan will give you a HD temp reading if your drive supports it.

My Raptor at a cold boot after being off all night is 20C. It settles in @ 35C after awhile during normal desktop use. This is with very minimal case airflow. It was the same when mounted in the 3.5" bay.

Bar81
Here is the HIS X800 card. The first time I saw an AC Silencer, it was on the HIS 9800P. AC later started selling the cooler separately. Hopefully, they will do the same for the X800.
Click to expand...


That's what I was talking about. I've already seen both the ATI and nVidia coolers which will be standalone products.
 
ey guys, so I'm getting the general idea that acitve cooling alone will be ok for a 74g raptor (even if it will be a bit noisy)? I've just got myself two of them and was thinking about zalman's cooler, but I have a lian li, which mounts the hdd's on the bottom 3.25 bays right behind two 80mm fans. think the fans are enough, or should I go for another cooler?
 
well, are u worried about noise? or just temp? the zalman cooler is keeps the drive cool and quiet, whereas the fans just provide circulation. their not really made for cooling a specific drive or anything, so i think you should go for another cooler.
 
Originally posted by: LaadyEmerald
ey guys, so I'm getting the general idea that acitve cooling alone will be ok for a 74g raptor (even if it will be a bit noisy)? I've just got myself two of them and was thinking about zalman's cooler, but I have a lian li, which mounts the hdd's on the bottom 3.25 bays right behind two 80mm fans. think the fans are enough, or should I go for another cooler?
Click to expand...

You'll be fine.
 
hey thanks for the input guys

I was just worried about temp milk3y.. but who knows, maybe the vibration will get so annoying that I'll try zalman's cooler, lol

hmm I think I'll see how it is with just the fans, then get something else if there's a problem
 
Originally posted by: Mik3y
well, are u worried about noise? or just temp? the zalman cooler is keeps the drive cool and quiet, whereas the fans just provide circulation. their not really made for cooling a specific drive or anything, so i think you should go for another cooler.
Click to expand...

When will your advice approach something other than nonsense?

Two 80mm fans in front of the drives will be absolutely fine. I have a single 80mm fan @ 1400rpm in front of my two 7200rpm drives, and they're at 29C.
 
Thanks for the temp readings on the 7200 rpm drives

My Raptor is 35C with no fans. (measured with SpeedFan)

I'd like to see some other Raptor temp readings for comparison including mounting and cooling method.
 
Originally posted by: oldfart
Originally posted by: Zebo
I dislike the rubber mounts/suspension becasue they take away any cooling advantage the hard disk recieves by direct contact with the case. This was explored at SPCR and is used extensivly by them but it raises drive temps by 5-10C and then requires some active cooling, abeit a very low RPM fan which can be very quiet. This is why I was attracted to a load barrier like the $80 smart drive 2002's. The drive still maintians contact with the case (aka heat sink) but has thick metal it's surrounded by to absorb noises. There is really no silent system with moving parts, just turn it on at 4:30 am and assuming you don't live below train tracks you'll always hear something, but this is as close as it gets. I have also found notebook drives which I use in my office computer to be very quiet if suspended but they cost 2x the money and perform half as good as a regular 3.25 7200rpm drive. Quiet must be a high priority to justify thier placement.
Click to expand...
I use SpeedFan to control my fan RPM. It also reads HD temp. My Raptor runs THE SAME temp suspended in the Zalman Heatpipe as it did when it was in a 3.5" bay with direct metal contact. It does not run any hotter.
Click to expand...


The zalman heat pipes are effective because they do draw heat from the sides of the harddrive like a case does.

If you isolate the harddrive from the case your going to have to have a active fan on it because the metal to metal contact of the case is a significant way that the harddrive removes heat. HD's are designes specificly that way. If you have the harddrive free floating then you lose that because metal to air heat transfer is very poor. So you need those extra fans because the exposed metal of the drive has a very small surface area for the air to come into contact with, and the thin metal covers on top don't move much heat to speak of.

(for example turn on the burners on a electric stove. Put your hand above it in the air. Feel the heat? Seems hot? Now take a iron skillet and put it on the burner, then let it heat up, then put your hand on the metal skillet. Your going to melt part of your skin to the iron. Big difference metal to metal transfer of heat is 1000's time more effective then metal to air. That's why a tiny patch of contact from a AMD core to a copper heatsink moves as much heat as the rest of heatsink with the huge fins and blowing fans can handle.)

With that zalman heat pipe stuff your adding to the surface area with the big copper heatsinks on either side + the metal tubes have lots more surface area. The metal tubes get plenty of the heat so from the liquid moving inside them. So it works. It's enough to absorb the heat from the drive and still work fine. Enough surface area to move the heat into the air.

What would be best (I am guessing.) is to use the zalman heatsink and put it on the bottom of the case and secure it someway with the rubber isolators or foam or whatnot. ATX cases are designed to draw air in thru the vents in the lower part of the case, draw it up past the cpu heatsink and then out thru the fans in the power supply. Plus it's generally cooler at the bottom of the case by a few degrees. This will place the pipes in the path of the moving air (hopefully) and thus you will be able to keep a cool harddrive wilst using as few fans as effeciently as possible.

Of course this would require a case mod a bit, and maybe more effort then you want.

Of couse ideally it would be a good idea to monitor the drive tempurature in these fast and cheap IDE drives. Some drives have a built in tempurature system and these readings can be accessed thru the SMART harddrive health monitoring tools.

It would be best if Zalman stuck some fins on the pipes, but that would probably make it significantly more expensive.
 
Drag, thanks for the comments. My reason for using the Zalman was not so much to do with cooling. It was for quietness. There have been comments one way or another about the effect on cooling using this setup. No one has posted a temp of their Raptor besides myself, so it is difficult to say how each method affects temp.

Since silence is my primary concern, I dont use any more fans than I have to. Many people over do it with fans and cooling. If my drive is working fine @ 35C with no fans, thats is great.

I agreer about the heatpipe. It keeps it as cool as directly mounted to the case, and that is good enough for me.
 
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