Quick questions on 120hz LCD TVs.

[Crow550]

If you own a 120hz TV and turn off the Smooth Motion stuff.

Does it still use the 120hz for help with fast action scenes and such. Or like when watching Blu-Ray in true 24FPS.

Does it help with streaming that is in 24FPS like Netflix movies are encoded in?

Someone was saying the Vizio E470VL doesn't have true 120hz or only with select devices? Here: http://reviews.walmart.com/1336a/388674018c8562f75c369f3af76ee63d/profile.htm

I read elsewhere that the 120hz TVs always use the 120hz even with the motion effects off which makes sense.

Just trying to clear this up. Thanks.

 

[IcePickFreak]

120hz is 120hz, and unless they made some break-thru recently that I haven't heard about, lcds/plasma cannot change are fixed refresh rates. And if they did somehow come up with a variable refresh rate lcd the computer monitor market would eat that up (think old CRT monitors.) For 24FPS viewing it'll use a 5:5 pulldown (which is what you want) as long as the output device (bluray player and whatever box you use to stream netflix) supports it. Pretty much all bluray players do for obvious reasons, Netflix I'm not sure how that's setup but I would think their various streaming boxes would if they decided to stream everything at 24FPS.

The linked review sounds like A) Tech support doesn't know what their talking about (unheard of, I know) B) The guy doesn't know what he's doing and something isn't setup right C) The 120hz is a marketing scam and is really 120hz** and there's a ton of fine print that = **. I'm going to go with both A & B.

That said, sets will still say they're 1080p/24hz for instance. My 60hz plasma does that even, but all that means is it's using the proper 2:3 pulldown (not as ideal as 5:5 pulldown.) Being that he was trying to run it from his computer that opens all sorts of things that he could of not configured correctly. If you try to stream a 24fps movie from your computer to you're TV like it's a big computer monitor there's a bit of configuring involved to get it to do it correctly - using the right input, general computer display settings, media player being used on the computer, etc.

 

[0roo0roo]

why would it help with 24fps content anyways, think about it. no matter what it is generating bullsh*t frames.
a faster tv might have a faster panel in the first place, but that is hardly a big deal when it comes to picture quality these days. contrast and color accuracy matter far more. pixel speed matters for 3d mostly.

 

[Crow550]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-ur9IF5OmU & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUjugzbY1II

 

[IcePickFreak]

why would it help with 24fps content anyways, think about it. no matter what it is generating bullsh*t frames.
a faster tv might have a faster panel in the first place, but that is hardly a big deal when it comes to picture quality these days. contrast and color accuracy matter far more. pixel speed matters for 3d mostly.

Not in the same way a 60hz does. 60/24 /= a whole number, so the frames have to be shown unevenly - aka the 2:3 pulldown. 120/24 = 5 so the frames all get refreshed 5 times (aka 5:5 pulldown), thus having no jitter and it pretty much eliminates any ghosting.

That said, the methods used for 2:3 pulldown now are pretty good where you don't really notice the telecine jitter either.

 

[0roo0roo]

Not in the same way a 60hz does. 60/24 /= a whole number, so the frames have to be shown unevenly - aka the 2:3 pulldown. 120/24 = 5 so the frames all get refreshed 5 times (aka 5:5 pulldown), thus having no jitter and it pretty much eliminates any ghosting.

That said, the methods used for 2:3 pulldown now are pretty good where you don't really notice the telecine jitter either.

i didn't mean that, he was talking about increased frame rate for motion scenes.

 

[IcePickFreak]

i didn't mean that, he was talking about increased frame rate for motion scenes.

Not sure I follow.

He was asking if the TV will run at a different refresh rate. The advantage of a 120hz is for 24fps material that it does generate the same frame 5 times (and every frame 5 times) as the ghosting - which is part of what can mess up action scenes - dissipates so quickly because of the amount of refreshes for a single frame. Watching normal NTSC content at 30 fps (ok technically 29.97fps) each frame is refreshed 4 times.

I'm not familiar with Vizio's, but after a bit of reading the Smooth Motion sounds like it's just their version of the processing for doing the pull-down optimally. You'd want it on if possible, but the TV is still 120hz with it off.

On a 60hz set not only do you get less refreshes per frame, you also get the uneven 2:3 pulldown. Like the Smooth Motion on the Vizio though, the manufacturers came up with new processing methods for the 2:3 pulldown to trick the eye into not seeing the jitter.

I can definitely tell a 120hz TV from a 60hz TV at a quick glance even. Not that I think it's bad or anything, but it would definitely take a little bit for me to get accustomed to it.

EDIT: Now that I re-read your initial post, if you're saying ghosting isn't too common an issue on modern lcds/plasma, I would agree with that.

 

[Crow550]

When turning on Smooth Motion it has Low, Medium & High.

Then you can select either Smooth or Precision.

I find it makes things look like video or a Soap Opera when on.

However I might have to go Plasma. As the dreaded viewing angles are bugging me. The TV is on a shelf. It's a perfect spot....However blacks are light colored. If I sit on the side couch, everything is milky looking. Just bugs me.

Plus my Living Room has crappy lighting and the Windows are on the side where the TV is. Perfect for a Plasma.

 

[IcePickFreak]

Ahh yeah some of those options aren't all they're cracked up to be. My Sammy plasma has skin tone enhancement, edge enhancement etc and I find it looks better with all that off. It seemed to be the general concensus when asked on AVS as well.

Is jitter or ghosting more apparent with it off?

 

[Crow550]

I haven't noticed any. Maybe a little jitter. From watching this TV & my Sisters 60hz LCD about the same size. Even with Smooth Motion off. It does seem to look better.

If it wasn't for the light colored blacks and washed out look when sitting on my side couch.

It would be perfect. All because of the TV being higher up. So unless I get another Entertainment Center. However it looks great where it is. Which again I guess I have to go Plasma.

That and sometimes my Living Room gets packed with guests and I want everyone to have a good spot.

 

[IcePickFreak]

I haven't noticed any. Maybe a little jitter. From watching this TV & my Sisters 60hz LCD about the same size. Even with Smooth Motion off. It does seem to look better.

If it wasn't for the light colored blacks and washed out look when sitting on my side couch.

It would be perfect. All because of the TV being higher up. So unless I get another Entertainment Center. However it looks great where it is. Which again I guess I have to go Plasma.

That and sometimes my Living Room gets packed with guests and I want everyone to have a good spot.

LCD vs plasma is a subjective thing so I say if you like the PQ of plasmas go for it. Some get them and are let down because the color isn't all blown out like the LCD's in torch mode at the store. Personally I prefer plasmas and would go out of my way to make it work (lighting wise) over an LCD. Viewing angle is definitely one of their strong points.