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Quick question: Do you feel that democracy is good for all cultures?
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very interesting discussion going on here for the most part 🙂
The big question also is who is right. If you take one culture who lives under a religous dictator shop and their values say that what they are doing is the best form of government. Then we have another culture who lives under a western style democracy who also belive that their values say that they have the best form of government.
Each culture have different values, even when you compare culture in the US to the ones in Europe, its all different. Who is to say who is right that their idea for the best form is the right one?
Sorry for going into religion but it applies to this. Regarding religouns most of them say that their religion is the only true right one, but the same question, how can one be right when all the others say exactly the same thing?
The big question also is who is right. If you take one culture who lives under a religous dictator shop and their values say that what they are doing is the best form of government. Then we have another culture who lives under a western style democracy who also belive that their values say that they have the best form of government.
Each culture have different values, even when you compare culture in the US to the ones in Europe, its all different. Who is to say who is right that their idea for the best form is the right one?
Sorry for going into religion but it applies to this. Regarding religouns most of them say that their religion is the only true right one, but the same question, how can one be right when all the others say exactly the same thing?
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Eh, you are European and you hate us! 😛
phillyTIM
Golden Member
This is EXACTLY the reason Bush is hated and will fail. SPOT ON. After all these years, each country has settled into its own people-bred culture; and those outsiders who think their brand of government/religion is the "right one for others" are the ones who need their asses shot and forced to stay in their own country.
You telling this guy don't be silly and you say something like this?? You say that as if the people of Afghanistan (sp?) had a choice in the matter!! They wanted the Taliban probably about as much as you want a bunch of armed thugs to come into your home, tie you up at gunpoint, and rob you of everything! Which is pretty much what the Taliban rule in Afghanistan amounted to!
The culture has to have a basis for public participation in government at a low level (juries, town councils, and so forth) before democracy can work. Historically, if you don't have that, overthrowing one non-democratic government will in short order lead to another. Compare the English and American civil wars (first American civil war, not the second) with the French, Russian, or German (1918) revolutions.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
What I told him is that a government which supports or protects those who attack another by that fact alone forfeits the right to security. Perhaps it is the use of "they" which confused you. "They" are the Taliban.
This is the fundimental difference I see between Iraq and Afghanistan. The Taliban was given a chance to surrender those who in fact attacked the US. They decided to fight rather than comply. The US (or any other country) at that point was well within their rights to eliminate a proven danger. Since the threat from Al Queda was real, there was not much choice than to try to get them. This was not the case in Iraq.
More clear now?
yllus
Elite Member & Lifer
What it boils down to is some semblance of moral absolutism.
Westerners (well, most of us) believe that every person has the right to life, liberty and security of person, to not be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile, to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal.
It seems many of you believe that Middle Easterners (well, most of them) has chosen non-democratic forms of government to rule them. By not fostering rebellion against those governments they implicitly convey that they prefer an authoritarian form of control. In that case, who are we to interfere? Let them wage their own battles and spill their own blood.
Of course, the vast majority of the time that is absolute nonsense. Iraq was once a democratic country, and it will become one again. Glorious notions of internal rebellion and overthrow are just that...notions. Was anyone paying attention to Tiananmen Square at all, or have we not learned that the young and idealistic are hardly a match for automatic weaponry and armor? Media control by said authoritarians has also become a lot more savvy. Many of you often cite the lack of an accredited Iraqi voice of the people asking the United States to intervene. You think maybe that if the majority could group together to pull that off, they wouldn't need outside help? :roll: Ask one, just one, expatriate Iraqi what he thinks of Saddam Hussein and if he or his family 'chose' him. No doubt you'll quickly learn that there is such a thing as a stupid question.
Westerners (well, most of us) believe that every person has the right to life, liberty and security of person, to not be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile, to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal.
It seems many of you believe that Middle Easterners (well, most of them) has chosen non-democratic forms of government to rule them. By not fostering rebellion against those governments they implicitly convey that they prefer an authoritarian form of control. In that case, who are we to interfere? Let them wage their own battles and spill their own blood.
Of course, the vast majority of the time that is absolute nonsense. Iraq was once a democratic country, and it will become one again. Glorious notions of internal rebellion and overthrow are just that...notions. Was anyone paying attention to Tiananmen Square at all, or have we not learned that the young and idealistic are hardly a match for automatic weaponry and armor? Media control by said authoritarians has also become a lot more savvy. Many of you often cite the lack of an accredited Iraqi voice of the people asking the United States to intervene. You think maybe that if the majority could group together to pull that off, they wouldn't need outside help? :roll: Ask one, just one, expatriate Iraqi what he thinks of Saddam Hussein and if he or his family 'chose' him. No doubt you'll quickly learn that there is such a thing as a stupid question.
If you can threaten enough people and keep enough people down and brainwash as many people as you can, then you can make people like their system of tyrany and facism.
The main problem with a strong central government where all the power is concentrated in only a few and they rule the country is that from time to time a person will come into power that will make bad decisions and the country will be forced to follow their leader or to be killed or put in prison.
The rule is that Absolute power corrupts absolutely. There is no avoiding this.
The problem is that you can have an extremist religious leader leading a country and people can be taught or brainwashed to do violence due to their beliefs. The Romans found out in Isreal that the most dangerous thing is a group of people that are willing to die for their beliefs.
Europe still does not know what it is like to be free. They have so much greed that they can not afford to spend what it takes to defend themselves. So they are not truely free.
The United States is not exactly a democracy. Democracy and a Democratic Republic are related but not the same. However, we can vote out the culprits if we dislike their decisions enough.
The main problem with a strong central government where all the power is concentrated in only a few and they rule the country is that from time to time a person will come into power that will make bad decisions and the country will be forced to follow their leader or to be killed or put in prison.
The rule is that Absolute power corrupts absolutely. There is no avoiding this.
The problem is that you can have an extremist religious leader leading a country and people can be taught or brainwashed to do violence due to their beliefs. The Romans found out in Isreal that the most dangerous thing is a group of people that are willing to die for their beliefs.
Europe still does not know what it is like to be free. They have so much greed that they can not afford to spend what it takes to defend themselves. So they are not truely free.
The United States is not exactly a democracy. Democracy and a Democratic Republic are related but not the same. However, we can vote out the culprits if we dislike their decisions enough.
miketheidiot
Lifer
:thumbsup:
miketheidiot
Lifer
It seems to me that most/many americans don't believe those.
DragonMasterAlex
Banned
It's not about CULTURES, it's about HUMAN NATURE. The NATURE of a human being REQUIRES freedom to think, to act, to LIVE one's own life for one's own sake. This is a fact of man's nature that is INDEPENDENT of his culture. Observe that people come to America from every country, every culture in the WORLD, and many who do so find themselves rising to great heights of success and happiness that their own "culture" would never have allowed them to achieve thanks to Social and often Governmental obstacles.
Democracy is merely the mechanism by which a free people express their choices for their leadership; it is not, in and of itself, a culture or a complete philsophical discipline.
FREEDOM is right for anyone who is capable of acting with their REASON as their guide and RESPECT for the rights of others to do the same.
Jason
Democracy is merely the mechanism by which a free people express their choices for their leadership; it is not, in and of itself, a culture or a complete philsophical discipline.
FREEDOM is right for anyone who is capable of acting with their REASON as their guide and RESPECT for the rights of others to do the same.
Jason
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Democracy is a mechanism. Freedom is another thing.
One problem is that freedom is an ill defined and relative thing. My reasoning may differ from yours. I may be more concerned with my religion, or my family or my home than who I vote for if I vote at all. As a human I can consider myself free in many settings. I don't want to be abused, but if I am free to provide for my family and be content, who is anyone to tell me I am not free if I consider myself to be so?
I agree here.
"democracy" is being used in popular parlance, especially by the Bush administration and Bushco. cheerleaders as if it were a religion.
The game is this: Make "democracy" a sacred cow--that cannot be critisized under penalty of being branded a heretic.
Then, since "democracy" is holy, now we (the U.S.) have a God-given right to foist our quaint and bizzar flavor of "democracy" on whomever we choose.
To answer the orig. question, the one thing that comes to my mind is, peace. Peace is good for all cultures.
DragonMasterAlex
Banned
I also agree that peace is good for all cultures; I don't, however, believe that Peace is possible until ALL countries respect the right of EVERY individual to their own lives and their own beliefs.
Jason
slurmsmackenzie
Golden Member
democracy, or american democracy? (apples and oranges unfortunately)
Darkhawk28
Diamond Member
Democracy done on a people's own terms = good.
Democracy thrust upon them with bombs and guns from an invading country = not good.
Democracy thrust upon them with bombs and guns from an invading country = not good.
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