Questions to cut fat after a bulk phase

[thatsright]

7/4/11

In the last two months I’ve gained about 12-15lbs. Good, as that’s what I was going for and definitely a lot more muscle. I am 5’11” and 217lb with 22% BF.

But….

1. Went from 2400 cal per day on ‘cutting’ to 4300 cals per day. Well that was the goal.
2. Didn’t maintain much discipline on the increased cal diet as compared to when I would be cutting. A) I usually didn’t eat enough cals per day. B) When I did eat enough or go a bit over, I’d have too many carbs and some days not enough protein intake.
3. Because of #2, I gained a bit of fat. I did a BF test, and my BF increased about 2-3% which is about 5-6lb of fat I added. So I added about 6-8lb of muscle which I definitely notice.
4. Sleep was/is still a battle. Many weeks of being sleep deprived and that would hurt the recovery time. I might have gotten 8+hrs of sleep 3 times in those two months.
5. I mostly did a 8x5(eight rapid reps times five sets with about 30 seconds reset in-between each set.) program of free weights with lots of compound movements.

I’m a little worn out from the ‘bulk’ routine of he last two months and starting to notice my face getting a little ‘puffy’ again. No one else would notice but me. I want to start cutting and drop a bit of the fat I put on. I plan to go down significantly on carbs. I will be shooting for about 100 or less per day.

So my REAL Questions:
1. I want to get below 200lb. So what is the most efficient way to lose 20lb and maintain as much muscle as possible? Obviously keep on lifting, but not as hard?
2. I’m not doing any aerobic now, all lifting. Do I scale back the lifting and add aerobic?
3 I feel like I should ‘cut my losses’ and start cutting as I'm no longer enjoying the ‘bulking’ phase? Would you say go another week or two? My BF is still awfully high.


Below is my post of 8 weeks ago before I started to bulk.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2161789

 

[brikis98]

1. Get in ~500 calorie deficit per day. Eat plenty of protein. Continue to lift heavy. See the fat loss sticky for more info.

2. If your only goals are to lose weight and stay strong, you don't need to do any aerobic work. If you have other goals - such as increased endurance, improved cardiovascular health, etc - you can certainly toss some in.

3. It's a personal choice. If your body fat percentage is higher than you're comfortable with, start cutting.

 

[killster1]

why not throw in some light cardio for your days off? I exercise everyday. one day cardio next day lift 7 days week. If i go out of town or something might take the day off but its rare.

 

[classy]

You were already a pretty good sized dude. You should have ate to add lean muscle. That is good bulk, but in your case basic aerobics and a fat burner. Out of that 12-15 lbs if your lucky, 5 lbs is probably all that there is muscle wise, which is pretty good. So keeping 5lbs before the bulk would put you at 205. So you want to burn 20lbs of fat. High protein, low fat, and low carbs. 100 carbs a day I think will be too high. I would shoot for 70 or under. Also going back to about 2400 cals will help as well.

 

[spamsk8r]

Here's what works for me (5'10" 207#, down from 214# 2 weeks ago, 16-17% BF): Cut the calories to about 2500, cut the carbs to less than 100g/day, mostly from veggies, avoid any and all grains, eat protein to satiety, and fill out the rest of the calories with fat from clean sources (grass-fed meats, eggs, walnuts, macadamias, pecans, almonds, avocados, olive oil, coconut oil, pastured butter). I would also cut the training volume down since you won't be able to recover as well with a reduced calorie intake. I would go with a basic 3x5 progression like Starting Strength, and you can add in accessory work if you like (hammer curls, ab work, back extensions, etc.). I personally hate cardio, but I do like riding my bike and hiking, so maybe find something active that you enjoy and do it more. Heck, even going for a 45 minute walk every day has been shown to help burn fat without affecting recovery ability.

EDIT: Just noticed classy's post, which is similar to my suggestions.

 

[thatsright]

You were already a pretty good sized dude. You should have ate to add lean muscle. That is good bulk, but in your case basic aerobics and a fat burner. Out of that 12-15 lbs if your lucky, 5 lbs is probably all that there is muscle wise, which is pretty good. So keeping 5lbs before the bulk would put you at 205. So you want to burn 20lbs of fat. High protein, low fat, and low carbs. 100 carbs a day I think will be too high. I would shoot for 70 or under. Also going back to about 2400 cals will help as well.

My OP from two weeks ago had me a little heavier than I really was. I am 213lb and would like to loose about 10lb. Pretty doable. More questions:

1. I'm looking to loose about 10-15lb of FAT. Should I lift less or more? I was doing a mostly 8x5 lifting routine in the gym (eight quick reps x 5 sets with 30 second rest in between or less).
2. I was probably in the 4k caloric range when trying to bulk. I'm thinking of going down to 3k. Or is that 'too much' as it is and I should go to 2400-2500 cals?
3. I go to gym 3x a week and do ZERO cardio in gym, just lifting. I hike twice a week and usually put in 1-2hrs on trail of heavy sweating/hard hiking. I LOVE TO HIKE to getting the aeroibc activity in isn't very hard for me to do. Should I add any cardio at the gym after I lift? Socially Challenged told me that doing aerobic if cutting should be kept to a minimum and might not even be needed after I lift at the gym. What do you think?
4. In terms of protein source, is lean pork loin just as good/better than/worse source compared to chicken? I ate chicken for a whole year 5x a week and I just can't eat it anymore.
5. I can keep myself to about 100carbs per day. Is that too much if I want to loose 10-15lb of Fat?

So going down to 2400-3000 cal per day will be a WELCOME change as its a hell of a lot harder to eat more often when bulking than sticking to 'cutting'.

 

[Pantlegz]

Here's what works for me (5'10" 207#, down from 214# 2 weeks ago, 16-17% BF): Cut the calories to about 2500, cut the carbs to less than 100g/day, mostly from veggies, avoid any and all grains, eat protein to satiety, and fill out the rest of the calories with fat from clean sources (grass-fed meats, eggs, walnuts, macadamias, pecans, almonds, avocados, olive oil, coconut oil, pastured butter). I would also cut the training volume down since you won't be able to recover as well with a reduced calorie intake. I would go with a basic 3x5 progression like Starting Strength, and you can add in accessory work if you like (hammer curls, ab work, back extensions, etc.). I personally hate cardio, but I do like riding my bike and hiking, so maybe find something active that you enjoy and do it more. Heck, even going for a 45 minute walk every day has been shown to help burn fat without affecting recovery ability.

EDIT: Just noticed classy's post, which is similar to my suggestions.

The bolded 1000 times over, I've found squash and dark leafy greens are awesome. I've also found that cutting out dairy is helpful even though it takes a good source of fat.

 

[Ventanni]

Don't let anyone tell you otherwise; cardio is critical if you're trying to add large amounts of lean, healthy muscle. At 5'11", you should be at least 15-25lbs lighter than what you currently are, and you're only limiting yourself by not incorporating cardio into your routine.

What is cardio? When people think cardio, they generally think some cardiovascular enhancing exercise like jogging, biking, or swimming, which fits the purpose of improving the health of your heart and lungs. What individuals fail to forget is that all three of those exercise routines involve utilizing over half of the body's total average muscle mass. Now, this type of large muscle utilization isn't going to create massive, bulking muscle, as it's not the anaerobic type of exercise that compares to lifting a dumb bell. But it will create a massive caloric deficit that is key to burning fat and taking that extra pudge off your cheeks.

It's also critical for building muscle from a health perspective. Regardless of whether you're adding 30lbs of muscle or 30lbs of fat, it's still 30 pounds of extra weight that your heart now needs to pump blood through. Secondly, by having a strong cardiovascular system, this means you can push yourself further with the weight routines. Remember, the nutrients that are required for a muscular contraction and repair has to be fed from somewhere. That "somewhere" is your heart. Neglecting cardio when weight lifting is like neglecting the fuel pump when modding out your motor. Either the motor becomes fuel limited, or the fuel pump burns out, and it ain't the latter you ever want to happen.

So let's recap. Incorporating cardio into your workout does the following:

1. Creates a caloric deficit that is key to burning fat.
2. Builds strong, lean muscle in the taxed areas (make no mistake, muscle built from cardio is still large, powerful, aesthetically pleasing muscle).
3. Strengthens the cardiovascular system, which is key for supplying nutrients to all muscle in the body. This part is highly key if you're into bulking.

No bodybuilder will ever tell you cardio isn't necessary.