questions regarding rippetoe

[BlahBlahYouToo]

1. i'm not exactly a beginner. but my routine has become pretty stagnant (i'm not gaining any more strength or muscle). overall i would like to gain mass, but at this moment because of unhealthy bulking, i'm trying to work off some flab in the midsection.
a. should i follow this program given my current situation (not a novice, but not putting on any muscle)?
b. is this program good for me when i'm trying to cut?

2. why is deadlifts only 1x5?

3. no mention of cardio. can/should i throw in cardio on the off days?

 

[KoolDrew]

The Starting Strength program would work great for maintaining LBM while on a cut.

2. why is deadlifts only 1x5?

More than that would be too much considering the squatting frequency and volume. You could do a light squat day and do more sets on deadlifts if you wished though.

3. no mention of cardio. can/should i throw in cardio on the off days?

Sure.

 

[BeauJangles]

1 a. Follow the program.
b. No idea

2. Because you're squatting so much, your legs get pretty tired throughout the week. I can say from personal experience that I find the deadlifts the most fun and challenging lift every week because my legs are already tired from squats.

 

[Chunkee]

could be overtraining...easily done and more prolific than not....get rest and eat well...take a week off with mild cardio good rest, stretching and good eats.. you will come back stronger...

 

[brikis98]

the first thing to mention is that if you're cutting, you (should be) at a calorie deficit, so you don't stand much of a chance of gaining strength or muscle. it doesn't matter what workout program you do, gaining strength/size during a (proper) cut is almost impossible. having said that, once you go back into a bulk, the rippetoe starting strength program is fantastic.

unless you're a very seasoned lifter (>3 years) who is really plateauing, rippetoe is likely to work well. give it a shot for 8 weeks - at the very least, it's likely to be a nice change of pace from what you're doing now, which should stun your body and get you unstuck. this writeup covers just about everything you need to know. it even includes a "what to do after rippetoe" section in the case you aren't seeing any results from it. you can also find variations of rippetoe-like routines here (intermediate) and here (advanced). however, i would still say that you should try the basic rippetoe program initially and only try the more advanced ones as necessary.

the program should be just fine while you are trying to cut. not sure why it's only 1x5 of deadlifts, but as BlinderBomber stated, it's probably because you get enough leg & back workout already. and you can certainly add in cardio, but that means more calorie burning, which along with your reduced calorie intake while you cut will make it even harder to increase strength/size (regardless of workout program).

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

awesome, thx guys.

i wouldn't say taht i'm a seasoned pro at lifting but i'd say i've been lifting for 1+ years, and recently have stopped making gains.

i'm going to start with this program, but change the 1x5 dl to a 3x5 like the rest of the exercises.

 

[KoolDrew]

i'm going to start with this program, but change the 1x5 dl to a 3x5 like the rest of the exercises.

I would highly recommend against it. 3x5 for deadlifts plus heavy squatting 3x a week is even too much for a beginner, and definitely too much for somebody who has been lifting for a while. The fact that you plan on cutting makes it even more of a bad idea. If you want to up the volume on deadlift, at the very least lower the volume on squats. Doing Front Squats or lighter back squats and deadlifts on Wednesday may not be a bad idea. Or you could just follow the Rippetoe routine as it's laid out and don't fuck with it.

I recommend the latter.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: KoolDrew

i'm going to start with this program, but change the 1x5 dl to a 3x5 like the rest of the exercises.

I would highly recommend against it. 3x5 for deadlifts plus heavy squatting 3x a week is even too much for a beginner, and definitely too much for somebody who has been lifting for a while. The fact that you plan on cutting makes it even more of a bad idea. If you want to up the volume on deadlift, at the very least lower the volume on squats. Doing Front Squats or lighter back squats and deadlifts on Wednesday may not be a bad idea. Or you could just follow the Rippetoe routine as it's laid out and don't fuck with it.

I recommend the latter.

well, the thing is i'm not really a beginner.
i know the program says not to mess with it, but i really don't see how adding 2 more sets is going to negatively affect it.

anyway, today was my first day... program A.

3x5x135 squats
3x5x135 bench
3x5x135 deadlifts
3x10 dips

yeah, i deviated from the program...
i dropped the weight a lot from what i normally do just to get a feel for it. normally those 135's are in the 175-200 range.
going to up the weight by 10# on each next workout.

 

[KoolDrew]

well, the thing is i'm not really a beginner.

As you become more experienced you need less volume in order to recover, not more. This is why the beginner routine has three heavy squatting days and Bill Starrs 5x5 routine, which is considered an intermediate program, has only 2 heavy squatting days (1 is light). As you become more experienced recovery becomes more of an issue.

Starting Strength is a beginner routine and if anything, as an intermediate lifter you should be lowering volume/intensity/frequency, not increasing it. Especially since you are on a cut where energy levels are going to be lower and recovering will be even harder anyway.

So follow the program as it's laid out and don't fuck with it unless you need to. And when I say need to, the only thing I could imagine you'd need to do less heavy squatting. Perhaps keeping the program the way it is, but go lighter on Wednesday's, similar to Bill Starrs 5x5 routine. That's if you find you can't recover from the three heavy squatting days.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

i'm finding that this program isn't really taxing my body much. i'm not tired at all at the end of each exercise and at the end of the workout.
my legs were sore after the first week because i haven't done them for almost half a year but after 3 weeks and incrementing the weight 5% each day as suggested, i find that i don't really feel i'm being challenged.


should i change it up to stronglifts 5x5?

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
i'm finding that this program isn't really taxing my body much. i'm not tired at all at the end of each exercise and at the end of the workout.
my legs were sore after the first week because i haven't done them for almost half a year but after 3 weeks and incrementing the weight 5% each day as suggested, i find that i don't really feel i'm being challenged.


should i change it up to stronglifts 5x5?

No, you should up the weight. That will solve your problem no doubt. It's not the program that's not doing its job That program will work no matter what, if you just do it right. 5% might not be challenging enough. Up it more, but be conscious of how your joints feel. I started at 5x195 for 3 sets and ended up raising it 10 pounds a week for a couple of weeks, then slowed back down to 5, then back to 10 again, taking a week off for a hip injury. I hit a max of ~5x265 at 155 pounds. This was all doing a similar program to what you're doing. If it's not challenging, make it so Just make sure your warmups are good and your joints don't get wrecked.

 

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: KoolDrew

i'm going to start with this program, but change the 1x5 dl to a 3x5 like the rest of the exercises.

I would highly recommend against it. 3x5 for deadlifts plus heavy squatting 3x a week is even too much for a beginner, and definitely too much for somebody who has been lifting for a while. The fact that you plan on cutting makes it even more of a bad idea. If you want to up the volume on deadlift, at the very least lower the volume on squats. Doing Front Squats or lighter back squats and deadlifts on Wednesday may not be a bad idea. Or you could just follow the Rippetoe routine as it's laid out and don't fuck with it.

I recommend the latter.

For me, heavy deadlifts means a tired lower back, which means horrific squat form. Squats are more important than deadlifts.

 

[KoolDrew]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
i'm finding that this program isn't really taxing my body much. i'm not tired at all at the end of each exercise and at the end of the workout.
my legs were sore after the first week because i haven't done them for almost half a year but after 3 weeks and incrementing the weight 5% each day as suggested, i find that i don't really feel i'm being challenged.


should i change it up to stronglifts 5x5?

Up the weight.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: KoolDrew

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
i'm finding that this program isn't really taxing my body much. i'm not tired at all at the end of each exercise and at the end of the workout.
my legs were sore after the first week because i haven't done them for almost half a year but after 3 weeks and incrementing the weight 5% each day as suggested, i find that i don't really feel i'm being challenged.


should i change it up to stronglifts 5x5?

Up the weight.

so what's teh difference between rippetoe and stronglifts? the programs are basically the same other than the number of sets.

is one for a true beginner, and the other for advanced beginner?
what will stronglifts offer over rippetoe?

 

[MegaVovaN]

not exactly same.

Rippetoe looks like this:

Day A
Squats
Bench Press
Deadlift

Day B
Squats
Overhead press
Power Clean



Stronglifts is

Workout A
Squat 5x5
Bench Press 5x5
Barbell Row 5x5
Dips 3xF


Workout B
Squat 5x5
Overhead Press 5x5
Deadlift 1x5
Pull-ups/Chin-ups 3xF


BTW, I disagree doing dips to complete fail. Extremely hard on body.




If you're not tired with Rippetoe, either weight is not heavy enough or your technique is incorrect. Are you doing warm up sets also? You should be.

After my rippetoe workouts I am so drained I hammer out some pull ups and almost ready to fall on the floor when going home.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: MegaVovaN
not exactly same.

BTW, I disagree doing dips to complete fail. Extremely hard on body.




If you're not tired with Rippetoe, either weight is not heavy enough or your technique is incorrect. Are you doing warm up sets also? You should be.

After my rippetoe workouts I am so drained I hammer out some pull ups and almost ready to fall on the floor when going home.

basically the same thing. both consists of the same exact exercises, differ in sets and routine.

my form is good. i'm one of those people that rolls his eyes at the other guys in the gym with improper form.
also, i'm not a beginner but i've been looking to get a strict routine in because my old workout was getting stagnant and not progressing.
other than that, i've been lifting on and off for at least 4 years.

i will say i think the weight is not enough because i'm motoring through these exercises with ease.
i did drop the weight down a lot to get a good baseline and because i don't normally do DL's, rows and presses so i don't know what my limit is.
i didn't want to start too high and then get discouraged by not making progress.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: KoolDrew

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
i'm finding that this program isn't really taxing my body much. i'm not tired at all at the end of each exercise and at the end of the workout.
my legs were sore after the first week because i haven't done them for almost half a year but after 3 weeks and incrementing the weight 5% each day as suggested, i find that i don't really feel i'm being challenged.


should i change it up to stronglifts 5x5?

Up the weight.

so what's teh difference between rippetoe and stronglifts? the programs are basically the same other than the number of sets.

is one for a true beginner, and the other for advanced beginner?
what will stronglifts offer over rippetoe?

One has greater volume, which is typically seen in beginner programs. I dunno, it seems to me like you're banking on something while you can 'cause there's no way you can continue doing 5x5 forever. You will progress greatly on both. The 3x5 is quicker and will probably take less mental game (since it's shorter).

 

[scootermaster]

I don't want to be the dick here, but I'd bet a testicle that this is just a mental thing, not a physical thing.

The OP has a fundamental problem -- despite any protests -- with the idea of being a "beginner". Whether he actually is or not is wholly irrelevant. He just doesn't want to be one. And even if you told him that Workout Routine X would get him all kinds of gains, but that it was "for beginners" he'd probably have an issue with it.

Stick to SS. It's good. It will work. We all get you're advanced. That doesn't mean it won't work. And the reality is, what makes you actually an advanced lifter is the realization that you shouldn't give a shit one way or the other. Your will is in a competition with your body to see who can get the best results, and that's all that matters. If you got the will, you'll get the results.

This probably deserves its own post (sticky!) but listening to you guys -- and other friends -- deal with workout routines. How many times have you had a friend on a diet, and they said something entirely nonsensical, that pretty much amounts to "Well, I know decades of medical research says X, but I think I should probably just do X AND Y, since I think that...blah blah blah" and you've had to shake your head and tell them no? Like, ever tell a girl who's trying to lose weight to lift heavy? They'll tell you stuff like, "I don't want to look like a guy!" (like it's that easy to get buff!) or "well, shouldn't I do cardio to slim down, and then lift to tone up?" And you want to strangle them and be like, "Look! THIS is how it works. Not just for 'everyone else' but for YOU TOO! Modern biophysics apply to you as well...SHOCKER!" Well, the reason people are like that is human nature. If people weren't like that, weight loss wouldn't be a multi-billion dollar industry (since weight loss is conceptually about the easiest concept in the world). Or economics...it's simple. You want to not be poor? Spend less money than you make! EASY! But do people get it? No. They argue with you ("well, see, I mean, what's one dinner out? And it's not like I'm doing to notice $100 more debt, I'll pay it off blah blah blah").

People are always making excuses for why something that works, or why a proven concept is somehow not applicable to them. Why? Because a). people don't want to have to face reality, and most "proven" concepts are hard work, and b). because people want to feel special. Plain and simple. They want to think that somehow, the rules don't apply to them because they're smarter than the rule-makers and have figured something out that no one else has.

Stick to SS, just as it's listed.

Or don't, you know? Up to you.

 

[spamsk8r]

Originally posted by: scootermaster
I don't want to be the dick here, but I'd bet a testicle that this is just a mental thing, not a physical thing.

The OP has a fundamental problem -- despite any protests -- with the idea of being a "beginner". Whether he actually is or not is wholly irrelevant. He just doesn't want to be one. And even if you told him that Workout Routine X would get him all kinds of gains, but that it was "for beginners" he'd probably have an issue with it.

Stick to SS. It's good. It will work. We all get you're advanced. That doesn't mean it won't work. And the reality is, what makes you actually an advanced lifter is the realization that you shouldn't give a shit one way or the other. Your will is in a competition with your body to see who can get the best results, and that's all that matters. If you got the will, you'll get the results.

This probably deserves its own post (sticky!) but listening to you guys -- and other friends -- deal with workout routines. How many times have you had a friend on a diet, and they said something entirely nonsensical, that pretty much amounts to "Well, I know decades of medical research says X, but I think I should probably just do X AND Y, since I think that...blah blah blah" and you've had to shake your head and tell them no? Like, ever tell a girl who's trying to lose weight to lift heavy? They'll tell you stuff like, "I don't want to look like a guy!" (like it's that easy to get buff!) or "well, shouldn't I do cardio to slim down, and then lift to tone up?" And you want to strangle them and be like, "Look! THIS is how it works. Not just for 'everyone else' but for YOU TOO! Modern biophysics apply to you as well...SHOCKER!" Well, the reason people are like that is human nature. If people weren't like that, weight loss wouldn't be a multi-billion dollar industry (since weight loss is conceptually about the easiest concept in the world). Or economics...it's simple. You want to not be poor? Spend less money than you make! EASY! But do people get it? No. They argue with you ("well, see, I mean, what's one dinner out? And it's not like I'm doing to notice $100 more debt, I'll pay it off blah blah blah").

People are always making excuses for why something that works, or why a proven concept is somehow not applicable to them. Why? Because a). people don't want to have to face reality, and most "proven" concepts are hard work, and b). because people want to feel special. Plain and simple. They want to think that somehow, the rules don't apply to them because they're smarter than the rule-makers and have figured something out that no one else has.

Stick to SS, just as it's listed.

Or don't, you know? Up to you.

This post is win.

 

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: scootermaster
Stick to SS, just as it's listed.

Or don't, you know? Up to you.

I bet it's the latter. Anyone take me up on it?

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: scootermaster
I don't want to be the dick here, but I'd bet a testicle that this is just a mental thing, not a physical thing.

The OP has a fundamental problem -- despite any protests -- with the idea of being a "beginner". Whether he actually is or not is wholly irrelevant. He just doesn't want to be one. And even if you told him that Workout Routine X would get him all kinds of gains, but that it was "for beginners" he'd probably have an issue with it.

Stick to SS. It's good. It will work. We all get you're advanced. That doesn't mean it won't work. And the reality is, what makes you actually an advanced lifter is the realization that you shouldn't give a shit one way or the other. Your will is in a competition with your body to see who can get the best results, and that's all that matters. If you got the will, you'll get the results.

This probably deserves its own post (sticky!) but listening to you guys -- and other friends -- deal with workout routines. How many times have you had a friend on a diet, and they said something entirely nonsensical, that pretty much amounts to "Well, I know decades of medical research says X, but I think I should probably just do X AND Y, since I think that...blah blah blah" and you've had to shake your head and tell them no? Like, ever tell a girl who's trying to lose weight to lift heavy? They'll tell you stuff like, "I don't want to look like a guy!" (like it's that easy to get buff!) or "well, shouldn't I do cardio to slim down, and then lift to tone up?" And you want to strangle them and be like, "Look! THIS is how it works. Not just for 'everyone else' but for YOU TOO! Modern biophysics apply to you as well...SHOCKER!" Well, the reason people are like that is human nature. If people weren't like that, weight loss wouldn't be a multi-billion dollar industry (since weight loss is conceptually about the easiest concept in the world). Or economics...it's simple. You want to not be poor? Spend less money than you make! EASY! But do people get it? No. They argue with you ("well, see, I mean, what's one dinner out? And it's not like I'm doing to notice $100 more debt, I'll pay it off blah blah blah").

People are always making excuses for why something that works, or why a proven concept is somehow not applicable to them. Why? Because a). people don't want to have to face reality, and most "proven" concepts are hard work, and b). because people want to feel special. Plain and simple. They want to think that somehow, the rules don't apply to them because they're smarter than the rule-makers and have figured something out that no one else has.

Stick to SS, just as it's listed.

Or don't, you know? Up to you.

:thumbsup:

 

[MegaVovaN]

scooter is WIN
if you would like me to remove your quote from my sig, PM me

 

[gramboh]

Starting Strength/Stronglifts 5x5 is base around the squat. I don't see how you can't feel tired from squatting 5x5 near your limit, just up the weight if your form is tight, make sure you are going low. I feel beat to hell after the last set (sweaty and out of breath) and I am only just over my bodyweight (going for 5x5 235 tomorrow, I weigh 200).

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: scootermaster
I don't want to be the dick here, but I'd bet a testicle that this is just a mental thing, not a physical thing.

The OP has a fundamental problem -- despite any protests -- with the idea of being a "beginner". Whether he actually is or not is wholly irrelevant. He just doesn't want to be one. And even if you told him that Workout Routine X would get him all kinds of gains, but that it was "for beginners" he'd probably have an issue with it.

Stick to SS. It's good. It will work. We all get you're advanced. That doesn't mean it won't work. And the reality is, what makes you actually an advanced lifter is the realization that you shouldn't give a shit one way or the other. Your will is in a competition with your body to see who can get the best results, and that's all that matters. If you got the will, you'll get the results.

this has nothing to do with whether i am a beginner or advanced. those terms really mean nothing to me.
that's why i even considered the 'starting strength' program, which is self-admittedly geared towards beginners.

i know what the problem is. i dropped the weight a bunch to get started and used to the program, but apparently it's too low to challenge myself.
however i am trying to stick with the program and up the weight steadily as prescribed and wanted to see if it were a detriment to switch over to stronglifts in the interim to make it more challenging.

i have no issues with the label 'beginner'. heck, in the overall scheme of things, i probably am one if you compare me to pros or even advanced lifters, but that's not the point.
the point is given the current load, it is not challenging me so i merely asked if it were ok to up each exercise by 2 sets, while maintaining the same increment each workout.

 

[jiggahertz]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: scootermaster
I don't want to be the dick here, but I'd bet a testicle that this is just a mental thing, not a physical thing.

The OP has a fundamental problem -- despite any protests -- with the idea of being a "beginner". Whether he actually is or not is wholly irrelevant. He just doesn't want to be one. And even if you told him that Workout Routine X would get him all kinds of gains, but that it was "for beginners" he'd probably have an issue with it.

Stick to SS. It's good. It will work. We all get you're advanced. That doesn't mean it won't work. And the reality is, what makes you actually an advanced lifter is the realization that you shouldn't give a shit one way or the other. Your will is in a competition with your body to see who can get the best results, and that's all that matters. If you got the will, you'll get the results.

this has nothing to do with whether i am a beginner or advanced. those terms really mean nothing to me.
that's why i even considered the 'starting strength' program, which is self-admittedly geared towards beginners.

i know what the problem is. i dropped the weight a bunch to get started and used to the program, but apparently it's too low to challenge myself.
however i am trying to stick with the program and up the weight steadily as prescribed and wanted to see if it were a detriment to switch over to stronglifts in the interim to make it more challenging.

i have no issues with the label 'beginner'. heck, in the overall scheme of things, i probably am one if you compare me to pros or even advanced lifters, but that's not the point.
the point is given the current load, it is not challenging me so i merely asked if it were ok to up each exercise by 2 sets, while maintaining the same increment each workout.

Yeah, go ahead and ignore most of what's in this thread with the exception of upping the weight over increasing the volume of what is recommended. There is no one program/diet/etc that is the best for everyone at any phase of their development. The more people learn, they will realize the less they know. That being said I would give the program a chance, and it's fine while on a cut. If you've been doing the lifts in the program previously, I wouldn't expect any strength gains and your lifts may go down.

It sounds like you may have not been doing the lifts in the program before you started? And that's why the weight you're starting at is too low? Were you coming off a higher volume routine previously? In any case, increase your weight more than 5% if need be. Also, you may not be sore/exhausted at the end of your workouts, that's fine. You're on a cut, your goal is to decrease bodyfat while minimizing muscle and strength loss. If you are accomplishing those goals I wouldn't deviate from what you're doing.