Questions...questions...questions...

[Atty]

First of all, I need a good set of glove and a belt. My hands have been getting eaten when using the dumbbells at my gym and I think I need a belt, everyone is saying that I shouldn't be going this heavy (275+lbs) without a belt unless I want to hurt myself. Need to know what to look for, what brands, and where to buy them at. Thinking BB.com would be the best but I'm not sure which would be the best.

Then I'm wondering, is behind the head OH press really as bad as it's said to be? I hear from some people that behind the head is a good way and other say it's the best way to hurt myself.

Then the myth, according to some at my gym, doing Deadlifts builds your waist out, and that if I want a narrow waist I shouldn't deadlift, any truth to that? I've finally gotten deadlifts worked properly into my routine and am making big gains, I'd hate to know that they are doing some injustince to my body, in terms of how I want to look.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: iAtticus
My hands have been getting eaten when using the dumbbells at my gym

Don't use gloves as they really don't help and only serve to essentially make the bar thicker. Just take some time and let the calluses develop. Also, take good care of them as in this tutorial. Doing lots of pull-ups and deadlifts will toughen your hands pretty quick.

Originally posted by: iAtticus
and I think I need a belt, everyone is saying that I shouldn't be going this heavy (275+lbs) without a belt unless I want to hurt myself.

Do you have a back issue or problem that's urging you to seek a belt? If not, don't bother, as you'd only be slowing down the development of your core. 275lbs, as far as squatting/deadlifting is concerned isn't that heavy - plenty of people put up over 500lbs without a belt.

If you do have some kind of back issues you're worrying about, Inzer makes really good belts. Here is a decent choice.

Originally posted by: iAtticus
Then I'm wondering, is behind the head OH press really as bad as it's said to be? I hear from some people that behind the head is a good way and other say it's the best way to hurt myself.

Doing OH press, pull-downs or pull-ups behind your head is typically considered a quick way to injure your rotator cuffs. There's no need to risk it.

Originally posted by: iAtticus
Then the myth, according to some at my gym, doing Deadlifts builds your waist out, and that if I want a narrow waist I shouldn't deadlift, any truth to that? I've finally gotten deadlifts worked properly into my routine and am making big gains, I'd hate to know that they are doing some injustince to my body, in terms of how I want to look.

It's a bunch of BS.

 

[Atty]

My lower back has been giving me a lot of trouble since yesterday's deadlift, highest I did was 275 for a set of 6, then two sets of 225 for 12. I think I might of just lost form and that's what is causing it but I'm not sure. A lot of people I know swear by belts though, curious, how does it slow down core development?

 

[KoolDrew]

Originally posted by: iAtticus
Then the myth, according to some at my gym, doing Deadlifts builds your waist out, and that if I want a narrow waist I shouldn't deadlift, any truth to that? I've finally gotten deadlifts worked properly into my routine and am making big gains, I'd hate to know that they are doing some injustince to my body, in terms of how I want to look.

It's a bunch of BS.

Of course deadlifting would make your waist thicker. However, I don't see how that's a bad thing.

My lower back has been giving me a lot of trouble since yesterday's deadlift, highest I did was 275 for a set of 6, then two sets of 225 for 12.

Why in the world are you deadlifting for sets of 12? They are supposed to be done heavy. Stick to 1RM, 3RM, or 5x5. I've never advocated doing higher reps for deadlifts. One fatigue sets in form goes to shit making you susceptible to injury.

As for the whole belt issue, if you want to use one stick to using it until weights are around 85-90% of your 1RM. They can be great for cues to keep your back in a good position and your belly out. Just make sure not to rely on it too heavily, and make sure to work your core hard. As for recommendations - I suggest Inzer.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: iAtticus
My lower back has been giving me a lot of trouble since yesterday's deadlift, highest I did was 275 for a set of 6, then two sets of 225 for 12. I think I might of just lost form and that's what is causing it but I'm not sure. A lot of people I know swear by belts though, curious, how does it slow down core development?

Rather than spending money on a weight belt, it would be better if you worked on your form. If you are deadlifting right, you should have no PAIN whatsoever in your back. A weight belt will not remedy this problem - it will only set you up for continued weakness. Also, screw the gloves. Gloves are a hindrance in lifting. If you have problem with callouses, soak them in hot water and remove them. Seriously, using these things is only gonna set you up in ways that will promote injury in the future. Just tackle it now, take it a bit slower, and be all the healthier because of it.

 

[Atty]

Originally posted by: KoolDrew

Originally posted by: iAtticus
Then the myth, according to some at my gym, doing Deadlifts builds your waist out, and that if I want a narrow waist I shouldn't deadlift, any truth to that? I've finally gotten deadlifts worked properly into my routine and am making big gains, I'd hate to know that they are doing some injustince to my body, in terms of how I want to look.

It's a bunch of BS.

Of course deadlifting would make your waist thicker. However, I don't see how that's a bad thing.

My lower back has been giving me a lot of trouble since yesterday's deadlift, highest I did was 275 for a set of 6, then two sets of 225 for 12.

Why in the world are you deadlifting for sets of 12? They are supposed to be done heavy. Stick to 1RM, 3RM, or 5x5. I've never advocated doing higher reps for deadlifts. One fatigue sets in form goes to shit making you susceptible to injury.

I always thought they were able to be done in high rep sets. So a good set would be 5x5 then? 5 reps, if I make all 5, go up, for 5 sets?

 

[KoolDrew]

I always thought they were able to be done in high rep sets.

I don't suggest it. Form breaks down very quickly once fatigue sets in.

So a good set would be 5x5 then? 5 reps, if I make all 5, go up, for 5 sets?

Yes, that's one way to do it and probably the way I would do it.

 

[presidentender]

Gloves are not your friends. If your hands get torn up, take a break and let them heal.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: presidentender
Gloves are not your friends. If your hands get torn up, take a break and let them heal.

Unless he's doing CF-like workouts with hundreds and hundreds of pullups, I don't think this will be necessary. Some semi-regular maintenance on callouses will help that from happening 🙂

 

[gramboh]

Re: behind the neck presses, I've always read of the danger to rotator cuffs, but I see olympic weightlifters doing them (snatch grip often). Obviously these guys are at an elite level, so I assume they just have increased strength/flexibility in that position?

The only time I use them is to get the bar up for an overhead squat in a snatch grip, and I do a push jerk/push press so I'm not using the shoulders as much as hip drive/dipping under (also using light weight since I suck at overhead work).

Edit: to the OP, you are not DL'ing properly if you are using your back and having back pain. You should be using your quads to extend knee (pull the bar from floor to knee level) then hamstrings/glutes to squeeze yourself 'forward' (lift the bar from knee to lock-out). Back should be tight and straight. And yeah, high rep DL with heavy weight is a bad idea. Check out stronglifts.com they have good articles on DL technique and their beginner program (5x5) is great. DL's will build core strength. Unless you are a beast you aren't going to get huge and bulky from them, that is a gross exageration.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

A snatch is not a behind the neck shoulder press. That's almost all leg/hip drive. It is extremely dangerous to do a simple military press behind your neck since your shoulder is not built for weight bearing behind your body. Sorry I forgot to mention this.

 

[Net]

i used gloves a long time ago. i didn't like them. plus they smell like crap. you can clean them but doing that and bring them with you etc... it was just a pain. i stopped using them after a while.

after about a month my hands got use to everything and i don't have any problems. btw, i use lotion every now and then before bed.

 

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Originally posted by: presidentender
Gloves are not your friends. If your hands get torn up, take a break and let them heal.

Unless he's doing CF-like workouts with hundreds and hundreds of pullups, I don't think this will be necessary. Some semi-regular maintenance on callouses will help that from happening 🙂

Reading your posts, we most definitely mean different things talking about "hands torn up." I meant actual tearing, with bleeding on heavy lifts (which happened to me once: guys, don't wash dishes for overtime and try to lift heavy) rather than calluses.

 

[TheVrolok]

I'll just stop in to say pretty much everything everyone above said is great advice.

Gloves? No, just don't do it.

Belt? Sure, use one for safety's sake - but you shouldn't need one until you're doing at least 80% of your 1RM.

Deadlifting? Makes you appear fat? No. Deadlifting is great. Period. Regarding reps, like it was said, no need to do 5+ reps. Form breaks down quickly, and then you hurt yourself. Do no more than 5/set.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: KoolDrew
Of course deadlifting would make your waist thicker. However, I don't see how that's a bad thing.

The only muscles relevant to the deadlift in your "waist" are really your abs, obliques and erectors. Deadlifting will certainly make all of these muscles stronger (especially the erectors), but that by itself won't make your waist look any "thicker". In other words, it sounds like iAtticus wants to have the classical V-shape body (broad shoulders, narrow waist) and IMO, the deadlift will *NOT* negatively impact that at all. A narrow waist, just like a visible 6 pack, has far more to do with lower body fat percentage than anything else, so as long as his diet is in check, he has nothing to worry about. And if his diet isn't in check, his waist will look thicker whether he deadlifts or not 🙂

Originally posted by: iAtticus
My lower back has been giving me a lot of trouble since yesterday's deadlift, highest I did was 275 for a set of 6, then two sets of 225 for 12. I think I might of just lost form and that's what is causing it but I'm not sure.

The deadlift is an exercise that punishes bad form very quickly and painfully. Your first priority should be to correct your form before you hurt yourself any further. If you don't deadlift correctly, no weight lifting belt is going to help. Pick up a copy of starting strength, read the chapter on deadlifting, record some videos of yourself doing it and post them for comments.

Originally posted by: iAtticus
A lot of people I know swear by belts though, curious, how does it slow down core development?

There is nothing wrong with using a belt so long as you understand what it's for and do it properly. Using it because your form is bad or because "someone" told you to use it once you reach weight XYZ is NOT the proper usage. Again, correcting your form so you can deadlift pain free without a belt is far more important.

If you do get a belt, I recommend reading through this article. Here is the most important part:

Constantly wearing a belt can also cause decreased strength development in abdominal muscles. Electromyographic research has found that there are lower levels of muscle activity in abdominal muscles when a belt is worn while lifting. The muscles that would normally keep the abdomen stabilized are inhibited when a belt is used, which could result in weaker abdominal muscles in the long run.

Strong abdominal muscles are important in maintaining trunk stability in the absence of a support belt. Studies have shown that substantial IAP can be achieved by simply holding oneUs breath while lifting. It is also important not to be too dependent on belts while training as they may not be admissible during competition.

Weightlifting belts can help support the back by increasing intra-abdominal pressure and preventing back hyperextension. They are most effective when used for maximal or submaximal lifts in which the spinal erector muscles work against heavy resistance. However, many ill effects, such as high blood pressure and abdominal muscle weakness, may result from improper use of weightlifting belts. They should be used sparingly in training.

 

[M0oG0oGaiPan]

i wear gloves only because i hated the calices i had on my hands. you can sand/cut them off but that's a pain in the butt. not to mention girls like it more when your caressing their asses with soft hands. if it wasn't for the calices i'd prefer no gloves also. you can definitely get a better grip. if you do go no glove and you ever plateau you can try going to gloves or wrapping a skinny towel around the bar to make it thicker. you'll work different muscle fibers supposedly. i'd think after doing this for a week or two you'd be able to lift more going back to gloveless.

 

[Kev]

I only wear gloves for benching because the ones I have secure my wrist. I had a bad wrist injury awhile ago and I can't bend it back even slightly without shooting pain.

 

[spamsk8r]

Originally posted by: KoolDrew

I always thought they were able to be done in high rep sets.

I don't suggest it. Form breaks down very quickly once fatigue sets in.

So a good set would be 5x5 then? 5 reps, if I make all 5, go up, for 5 sets?

Yes, that's one way to do it and probably the way I would do it.

You want to be careful with doing 5x5 deadlifts if you are doing any other exercises that involve the back (such as squats) as fatigue will ruin your form. In Starting Strength it's recommended to only do 1 set of 5 reps (after warming up with lighter weight) if you are doing squats in the same day, as the squats hit your back plenty and you'll just end up ruining your form. If deads are your only back exercise for that day, go ahead and do more sets, but always make sure that form is dead on.

 

[gramboh]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
A snatch is not a behind the neck shoulder press. That's almost all leg/hip drive. It is extremely dangerous to do a simple military press behind your neck since your shoulder is not built for weight bearing behind your body. Sorry I forgot to mention this.

Sorry, to clarify I was talking specifically about:

Overhead squat - getting the bar into position, the only way I've seen it done is walk out in a back squat position, adjust hands to OHS/snatch grip position and press/push press/push jerk the bar straight up.

Snatch balance - same as above, pressing snatch balance, heaving (push press) and the third progression (jerking it up and dropping into the bottom - can't remember the name)

Those exercises are done widely by OL'ers and anyone trying to learn/progress the snatch or overhead squat, but I've never heard about them being dangerous for your shoulder.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: gramboh

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
A snatch is not a behind the neck shoulder press. That's almost all leg/hip drive. It is extremely dangerous to do a simple military press behind your neck since your shoulder is not built for weight bearing behind your body. Sorry I forgot to mention this.

Sorry, to clarify I was talking specifically about:

Overhead squat - getting the bar into position, the only way I've seen it done is walk out in a back squat position, adjust hands to OHS/snatch grip position and press/push press/push jerk the bar straight up.

Snatch balance - same as above, pressing snatch balance, heaving (push press) and the third progression (jerking it up and dropping into the bottom - can't remember the name)

Those exercises are done widely by OL'ers and anyone trying to learn/progress the snatch or overhead squat, but I've never heard about them being dangerous for your shoulder.

Oh no no, I understood exactly what you meant. I just wanted to make sure that it was reiterated 🙂

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: gramboh

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
A snatch is not a behind the neck shoulder press. That's almost all leg/hip drive. It is extremely dangerous to do a simple military press behind your neck since your shoulder is not built for weight bearing behind your body. Sorry I forgot to mention this.

Sorry, to clarify I was talking specifically about:

Overhead squat - getting the bar into position, the only way I've seen it done is walk out in a back squat position, adjust hands to OHS/snatch grip position and press/push press/push jerk the bar straight up.

You can clean the bar off the floor, then push-press it overhead then lower it behind your neck into a squat. Adjust grip. Push-whatever it back up.

 

[gramboh]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: gramboh

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
A snatch is not a behind the neck shoulder press. That's almost all leg/hip drive. It is extremely dangerous to do a simple military press behind your neck since your shoulder is not built for weight bearing behind your body. Sorry I forgot to mention this.

Sorry, to clarify I was talking specifically about:

Overhead squat - getting the bar into position, the only way I've seen it done is walk out in a back squat position, adjust hands to OHS/snatch grip position and press/push press/push jerk the bar straight up.

You can clean the bar off the floor, then push-press it overhead then lower it behind your neck into a squat. Adjust grip. Push-whatever it back up.

Yeah, exactly, so the accepted way to do an over-head squat is to press/push-press/jerk in a snatch grip from behind the neck to overhead then squat. Given that people seem to agree that any type of behind the neck press can be dangerous, doesn't this make doing an over-head squat dangerous because of how you get the bar in position?