Questions on ATI Graphics Drivers

[BoomAM]

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian

The games that AA dont work in, also dont work on nVidia cards.

That's not correct. ATI's AA doesn't work in FarCry, apparently Nvidia's does. Also ATI's AA tends not to work in 16-bit color, so all these old games that you can't force to 32 bit don't get AA either. These aren't the only examples, for all the potential problems you get with an ATI card just browse the driver forum at rage3d.com.

Thats a bit lop sided.
Of cource theres going to be ATI problems listed on a ATI Fansite. Duh!. You`d get the same on an nVidia website.

 

[jgbishop]

Thanks to everybody for their help so far. I'm still not 100% sure which way I'll go, but I've been leaning towards a 9700 pro for some time now. I guess I'll just take the plunge and see what happens.

I may wait until February to buy all my components though. The Intel processors are supposedly coming down in price Feb. 1st.

Thanks again! 😀

 

[kylebisme]

ya don't mind Ben, he just likes to rag on ati even when he has no clue what he his talking about. like his tron2.0 comments, he made it sound as if ronnn would have issues with his 9700pro, cat 4.1s and the game when the issue only effects the old 7000 series. personaly i think the 9700pro is the best choice in that pricerange.

 

[Rogodin2]

not nVidia(feel free to look it up, you should study your tales more carefully)not nVidia(feel free to look it up, you should study your tales more carefully)




It wasn't a tale big fella, it is exactly the same as you blaming ati for game problems that are attributable to the devs not ati.

I'm so sick of your nvidia bias that I'm blocking your posts-your beyond 3d posts are just as invalid-so I'm blocking you there too.

rogo

 

[BFG10K]

In my experience both vendors' drivers work well. I've had some problems with both but overall my experiences have been very good.

If you tell me something, there is a very high chance I will remember it just so you know 🙂

I played COD from start to finish and I had absolutely zero problems with it.

(this release, Tron 2.0 is broken).

I'm fairly certain the problem is restricted to 7000 boards only. When it comes to ATi's listed driver issues, in most cases they only affect very specific boards under very specific settings. Generally they aren't anywhere near as widespread as they appear to be at first glance.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Originally posted by: BoomAM

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian

The games that AA dont work in, also dont work on nVidia cards.

That's not correct. ATI's AA doesn't work in FarCry, apparently Nvidia's does. Also ATI's AA tends not to work in 16-bit color, so all these old games that you can't force to 32 bit don't get AA either. These aren't the only examples, for all the potential problems you get with an ATI card just browse the driver forum at rage3d.com.

Thats a bit lop sided.
Of cource theres going to be ATI problems listed on a ATI Fansite. Duh!. You`d get the same on an nVidia website.

Don't see how it's lopsided, this is not a popularity contest. There is a good listing of specific problems on that board, along with a lot of people hailing ATI's drivers. A video card is a pretty big purchase, people should know what to expect from the potential products.

 

[BoomAM]

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian

Originally posted by: BoomAM

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian

The games that AA dont work in, also dont work on nVidia cards.

That's not correct. ATI's AA doesn't work in FarCry, apparently Nvidia's does. Also ATI's AA tends not to work in 16-bit color, so all these old games that you can't force to 32 bit don't get AA either. These aren't the only examples, for all the potential problems you get with an ATI card just browse the driver forum at rage3d.com.

Thats a bit lop sided.
Of cource theres going to be ATI problems listed on a ATI Fansite. Duh!. You`d get the same on an nVidia website.

Don't see how it's lopsided, this is not a popularity contest. There is a good listing of specific problems on that board, along with a lot of people hailing ATI's drivers. A video card is a pretty big purchase, people should know what to expect from the potential products.

OMG. You cant see the obvious? Let me explain it;
On an ATI bias website, theres obviously gonna be loads of ATI problems listed on it. Goto nvnews, and you`ll find an equal number of nvidia problems.
So by saying the R3D has loads of ATI problems on its website is the same as saying that nvnews has loads of nVidia problems on it.
See?

 

[Abhoth]

Quite a lively discussion... I've had cards from both camps. Last Nvidia card was a Gf3 Ti500, that was a rockin' card, nary an issue. Then, and currently, running a 9700Pro... runs pretty much everything. Had a problem with Splinter Cell which turned out to be a sound card issue. CoD of course had a few problems... about a week ago I disabled fastwrites in the bios, all better. Haven't seen any performance hit by killing fastwrites so there ya go.

 

[BoomAM]

Originally posted by: Abhoth
Quite a lively discussion...

You think this is "bad", then wait for some of the bigger threads. Many of us have had discussions/arguements running for weeks on end in them!
🙂

 

[Abhoth]

Originally posted by: BoomAM

Originally posted by: Abhoth
Quite a lively discussion...

You think this is "bad", then wait for some of the bigger threads. Many of us have had discussions/arguements running for weeks on end in them!
🙂

No worries... I've been watching! ;-) Often the best source of information those discussions!

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Originally posted by: BoomAM

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian

Originally posted by: BoomAM

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian

The games that AA dont work in, also dont work on nVidia cards.

That's not correct. ATI's AA doesn't work in FarCry, apparently Nvidia's does. Also ATI's AA tends not to work in 16-bit color, so all these old games that you can't force to 32 bit don't get AA either. These aren't the only examples, for all the potential problems you get with an ATI card just browse the driver forum at rage3d.com.

Thats a bit lop sided.
Of cource theres going to be ATI problems listed on a ATI Fansite. Duh!. You`d get the same on an nVidia website.

Don't see how it's lopsided, this is not a popularity contest. There is a good listing of specific problems on that board, along with a lot of people hailing ATI's drivers. A video card is a pretty big purchase, people should know what to expect from the potential products.

OMG. You cant see the obvious? Let me explain it;
On an ATI bias website, theres obviously gonna be loads of ATI problems listed on it. Goto nvnews, and you`ll find an equal number of nvidia problems.
So by saying the R3D has loads of ATI problems on its website is the same as saying that nvnews has loads of nVidia problems on it.
See?

Ok fanboy, like I said this isn't a popularity contest. Someone looking to buy a new video card needs to be informed of the potential problems. No better place to find info about ATI cards than at a ATI-oriented website. I mentioned it not as an attempt to bash ATI, it's an attempt to inform about the current state of ATI drivers. I don't disagree with the logic you're using:

Of cource theres going to be ATI problems listed on a ATI Fansite. Duh!. You`d get the same on an nVidia website.

I just don't understand why you're trying to attack me with it.

 

[BoomAM]

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
Ok fanboy, like I said this isn't a popularity contest. Someone looking to buy a new video card needs to be informed of the potential problems. No better place to find info about ATI cards than at a ATI-oriented website. I mentioned it not as an attempt to bash ATI, it's an attempt to inform about the current state of ATI drivers. I don't disagree with the logic you're using:

1) Your original point however was that there are loads of ATI related problems on R3D, not that for advice and potential problem solutions can be found at R3D.
2) Owning 1 ATI card and 4 nVidia hardly makes me a ATI Fanboy.

I just don't understand why you're trying to attack me with it.

You considered that an insult? OMG...you really need to learn to read things how they are and not rely on emoticons to get the true point of the post.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Originally posted by: BoomAM

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
Ok fanboy, like I said this isn't a popularity contest. Someone looking to buy a new video card needs to be informed of the potential problems. No better place to find info about ATI cards than at a ATI-oriented website. I mentioned it not as an attempt to bash ATI, it's an attempt to inform about the current state of ATI drivers. I don't disagree with the logic you're using:

1) Your original point however was that there are loads of ATI related problems on R3D, not that for advice and potential problem solutions can be found at R3D.
2) Owning 1 ATI card and 4 nVidia hardly makes me a ATI Fanboy.

I just don't understand why you're trying to attack me with it.

You considered that an insult? OMG...you really need to learn to read things how they are and not rely on emoticons to get the true point of the post.

What is your problem man? If you indeed aren't a fanboy then quit acting like it.

Actually, act however you like. Go ahead and troll for a flame war with someone else, I'm done.

 

[Rogodin2]

Nvnews.net doesn't even come within 40% of a userbase when compared to rage3d.com.

There are many many ati users that have bucked the nvidia BS and have been posting their comments and experiences on rage. Before the 8500 rage was still bigger but not by much-since then it has grown like crazy-you can attribute this, their market growth (including the overwhelming popularity of the r3xx as well as their mobile solutions) to people posting feeback regarding shoddy drivers (but this is invalid and you'd have to give me some numbers that can show the ratio between the number of happy users and pissed off users-and then you'd have to provide to same ratio from nvnews (I think nvnews would take the "shoddy" label myself-I've posted there for a long time and have seen what happens).

I'm dissapointed in BS and the rest of you nvidiots.

godspeed and may god let you into heaven for your svga preference.

rogo

 

[Jeff7181]

I'd say right now, nVidia and ATI's drivers are about equal. With all the driver switching nVidia has been doing, their drivers have gone downhill.

Most recent problems I've had...

52.16 - MAJOR issue with BF1942 mod Desert Combat... textures just disappear
52.70 - not an official release, no AA in Far Cry Demo
53.03 - Madden 2004 doesn't work

 

[BoomAM]

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian

Originally posted by: BoomAM

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
Ok fanboy, like I said this isn't a popularity contest. Someone looking to buy a new video card needs to be informed of the potential problems. No better place to find info about ATI cards than at a ATI-oriented website. I mentioned it not as an attempt to bash ATI, it's an attempt to inform about the current state of ATI drivers. I don't disagree with the logic you're using:

1) Your original point however was that there are loads of ATI related problems on R3D, not that for advice and potential problem solutions can be found at R3D.
2) Owning 1 ATI card and 4 nVidia hardly makes me a ATI Fanboy.

I just don't understand why you're trying to attack me with it.

You considered that an insult? OMG...you really need to learn to read things how they are and not rely on emoticons to get the true point of the post.

What is your problem man? If you indeed aren't a fanboy then quit acting like it.

Actually, act however you like. Go ahead and troll for a flame war with someone else, I'm done.

Great way to turn it around and make me seem like a troll. Good job there.

Im not acting like a fanboy. From my experiance with both drivers, i can comment very well on the state of them, im just fed up of ppl bad mouthing ATI drivers, even though 90% of them have never used ATI drivers before.
The fact is, atm, both driver sets are about the same.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Rogo-

It wasn't a tale big fella, it is exactly the same as you blaming ati for game problems that are attributable to the devs not ati.

Name the instances of that happening. I have an advantage on you here, I can quote ATi stating they had a problem with the game.

Mem-

Video cards: Various models of GeForce 1 standard, GeForce 2MX/GTS/Ultra, GeForce 3/T1200/Ti500, GeForce 4MX, Voodoo 5, S3 Savage 4, integrated NForce, ATI Radion 7000.

That was not a nVidia bug. VIA updated their drivers and the mass problems with the infinite loop vanished(I recall the posts on the boards quite clearly). The bug also impacted a number of non nV based boards including ATi and 3dfx. That was VIA who is another company I can gladly give a lengthy driver rant about(although ATi and VIA both pale in comparison to my loathing for Creative Labs' driver team 😉 ).

BFG-

I played COD from start to finish and I had absolutely zero problems with it.

What driver revision? I listened to you guys before I bought my R9500Pro and was utterly shocked at how bad the drivers were. What was worse, I ended up with a bunch of the ATi fans saying the problems didn't exist even when ATi came out and publicly announced they did. I can pull up quotes with people denying the HL engine hard lock bug, denied by multiple members here, even after ATi came out and publicly announced they knew about the problem and it was fixed in the next revision. There is good reason to be suspect of most of the comments from the ATi users here concerning driver issues. Some of the bugs you yourself didn't associate with ATi's drivers(the horrible gaming performance(although not framerate) with earlier Lithtech powered games) although I will say I don't recall you ever stating you were not running in to problems that I was(when I mentioned the LT bug I recall you stating that you thought it was a problem with your setup IIRC). Most of the games I ran into issues with IIRC you didn't have, but there were a lot of ATi users on this forum that tried to state everything worked flawlessly even after ATi said the drivers were broken for those titles.

 

[Mem]

That was not a nVidia bug. VIA updated their drivers and the mass problems with the infinite loop vanished(I recall the posts on the boards quite clearly).

Ben,funny you say that since when I had the famous Nvidia loop problem with a certain Nvidia driver(can`t remember which one offhand) however I do remember with the next Nvidia driver update it solved the problem on my PC 😉.

Getting back on subject, as I`ve already stated ATi drivers have improved a lot IMHO,you can argue the Pros and Cons of both ATi and Nvidia cards/drivers allday,in the end you`ll get different opinions/comments on them both.I would say it`s at least worth trying and considering ATi equal to Nvidia , see how it works for you.

I must say I`ve had no problems with my 9700NP in any of my games(it`s in a VIA board as well 😉),I`ve been really impressed with it ,and when I say that I`m comparing it to my Nvidia cards as the standard in stability.

I`ve no loyalty to any brand and call it as I see it.

🙂

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

(this release, Tron 2.0 is broken).

I'm fairly certain the problem is restricted to 7000 boards only. When it comes to ATi's listed driver issues, in most cases they only affect very specific boards under very specific settings. Generally they aren't anywhere near as widespread as they appear to be at first glance.

You are right, ATI only mentions the 7000 series. Still I did have this exact same problem with a 9700 pro (as earlier stated, fix was simple and only began happening near the end of the game). Maybe I have a driver conflict somewhere or something. Every thing else has ran great for me though, except the far cry demo which was difficult to get running properly. I expect it will be a very good game when the bugs are worked out.

 

[Rage187]

"They`re both as buggy and as stable as each other imo.
They are both good sets of drivers. From my experiance, the nVidia bugs arnt as "often" as ATIs, but nVidia bugs are very serious ones, where as ATI ones are more "often", but far less severe. "



LOL wtf are you smoking?

 

[Johnbear007]

I have a 9800 pro.

It runs everything (including Call of duty) flawlessly.

I think the driver debate is really just fan boys on BOTH sides trying to throw mud. Get the card that best suits your needs. Nvidia and ATI both make great products.

 

[BoomAM]

Originally posted by: Rage187
"They`re both as buggy and as stable as each other imo.
They are both good sets of drivers. From my experiance, the nVidia bugs arnt as "often" as ATIs, but nVidia bugs are very serious ones, where as ATI ones are more "often", but far less severe. "



LOL wtf are you smoking?

I dont smoke!. Anything.
From what ive seen, my comment holds true.
With my GF3 & GF2GTS & GF2MX, i found that most driver bugs rendered the game unplayable, just in a few games.
Where as with my 9700pro, the driver bugs only cropped up under certain settings/instances, and even then, not that often, but it happened in more titles.

Other might have had different experiances however.

 

[BFG10K]

What driver revision?

Catalyst 3.10 - not a single problem of any kind for the entire game, from start to finish. Also I tried Catalyst 4.1 quickly and it worked fine too.

The problem was only restricted to Catalyst 3.9 and ATi posted a hotfix only days after it was released. Also I know a few people that had absolutely no problems on those drivers even without the hotfix.

There is good reason to be suspect of most of the comments from the ATi users here concerning driver issues.

Perhaps some zealots will hide things but that's no different to zealots from any company. I mean nVidia doesn't have even remotely perfect drivers when certain zealots claim they do; they often have visible problems right inside game reviews.

What was worse, I ended up with a bunch of the ATi fans saying the problems didn't exist even when ATi came out and publicly announced they did.

Again, you have to be careful that the issues you read aren't restricted to a certain board at certain settings. Also some users really don't have problems even if they have the troublesome setup that ATi is listing. I think I myself have had a few of those, problems that ATi acknowledged but I wasn't affected by them at all.

Some of the bugs you yourself didn't associate with ATi's drivers(the horrible gaming performance(although not framerate) with earlier Lithtech powered games) although I will say I don't recall you ever stating you were not running in to problems that I was(when I mentioned the LT bug I recall you stating that you thought it was a problem with your setup IIRC).

I have the mouse lag bug in NOLF and I agreed with you at that time.

Incidently, I've done some more research on the matter and it appears that the game engine is at fault. It has a mouse sampling rate of around 50 Hz and if your framerate exceeds that amount then the input starts to lag. You can reduce the lag to some degree by lowering the framerate using vsync and cranking up the eye candy.

I also believe that nVidia are using app-specific detection to work around the issue (possibly by capping the framerate at 50 FPS) and if so I applaud them for it as this really is a case where a troublesome app simply won't work with standard methods.