Questions about speakers

[ManBearPig]

So i bought a home theater in a box (Onkyo HT-S6200) and i am quite happy with it. However, i still kind of wish i would've taken your guys' advice and built it up piece by piece. Anyway, i know matching speakers is a big deal so with that in mind i want to ask this (and some more general questions):

1)What if i just bought a really nice, huge center speaker and paired it with the others? I find that for movies, and even some games, the center speaker seems to be the most important one, and as of right now, this one seems kind of small and the range is too narrow.

2)Same goes for the front L + R. Could i just buy new ones of those (and i guess the center) and have the current L + R and rear L + R be support surround speakers?

3)Would the current receiver handle really nice speakers?

4)How much of a difference would i notice if i purchase a sweet sub vs. this current one? Keep in mind, im not the kind of person to really enjoy huge booms and stuff (and its annoying to my family who live in the house lol).

5)Will it really make a difference having nice vs. just ok speakers in a really small room?

Thanks!

...more to come

 

[SithSolo1]

How big is the room? Rough guess is fine.

Yes you can swap out the speakers however you like. If you do intend to get different speakers make sure they are 8 or 6 ohm to work with that receiver. Also the higher the db rating of the new speakers(88db, 90db, 94db, etc) the more efficient they are and the less strain they will put on the receiver for a given output. Your current speakers are rated around 81db so they are pretty inefficient.

Which speakers you choose to upgrade is up to you but when watching movies ideally you want to have the front three(center, left, and right) be not only the same brand but also the same series. The surrounds don't matter as much. You can add a new sub easily as long as your receiver has a Sub/LFE-Out port. If you currently use a single cable(like an RCA cable) to connect it to the receiver instead of speaker wire then it probably does. Without seeing the back of it I can't be sure.

As far as the difference you'll notice that's almost impossible to say because it varies from person to person however I think you would not be disappointed. Dialog and front sound stage would more than likely be vastly improved depending on your new speaker choice. The sub can be improved but could become cost and/or annoyance prohibitive.


Budget speakers that would probably be a good step up:
Center($100) - http://www.amazon.com/BIC-America-DV.../ref=pd_cp_e_2

Main Floorstanding($133 Each) - http://www.amazon.com/BIC-America-Ve...d_bxgy_e_img_c

Main Bookshelf/Surrounds($110 Pair) - http://www.amazon.com/BIC-America-DV...d_bxgy_e_img_b

Subwoofer($186) - http://www.amazon.com/BIC-America-F1...ref=pd_sim_e_3

Shipping is free on all except the Floorstanding speakers.

Those are just something I quickly found on Amazon. Newegg also runs deals pretty often on Polk's Monitor line of speakers, also a good option. There are many other choices and I'm sure other members will have other suggestions.

 

[fralexandr]

1+2) if you're buying a center speaker, your front left and right speakers should be timbre matched. To do this, you could buy 3 of the same speaker, and use them as front: left, center, and right.
the surround speakers can be different than the front speakers, but the front speakers should optimally be the same series (i.e. my home theater setup had polk monitor 60 L & R with a cs2 center & blue sky 2.1 (used as sub + 2 surrounds); the cs2 isn't in use atm because it's too big D: and i don't feel like wall mounting it, and the living room was rearranged so that there wasn't really any place to put the surrounds)

3) the onkyo HTIBs come with full featured receivers, making them perfect for upgrading when you feel like it. the 6200 comes with a receiver similar to the onkyo 606 (but with newer features and 6 ohm speaker support)

4) i've never heard the sub on the onkyo 6200 (i wanted to get the 6100 but the price was never right ), but a "real" subwoofer is definitely noticeable. It will put out awesome explodey rumbley effects (my sister bought some nice blue sky 2.1 speakers for her computer and we decided to try it out in the home theater, I think we were watching the bluray Battle in Seattle, but had to turn down the sub because the bus driving off (while the people are in jail or something) was super loud and rumbly and awesome but way too loud)

5) i'm pretty sure good speakers make a difference no matter the size of the room. As sithsolo1 says, whether the difference is noticeable/appreciated depends on the person

yep newegg often has the polk monitor 60 on sale for ~$110 each. The bic f12 sub is often recommended, and the subwoofer doesn't have to match the other speakers, so you could get 2x polk monitor 60 + bic f12 if you wanted, or just buy what sithsolo suggested. You probably don't even need to replace the surrounds if your room is small enough (many people say the surrounds don't matter that much, although i'm sure that's also relative)

 

[ManBearPig]

Alright, thats what i was thinking was gonna happen (have to match the front three speakers at least). I was thinking i would get a center speaker like this (or this, its on sale often, but i know nothing about it. i've seen a similar one and holy fuck its big!): Polk CS2. The room is ~15x17, but i suck with measurements.

1)What front speakers would i match with that?

2)Do people actually buy full sized speakers for their surround and (if 7.1) rear surround speakers?

3)So i definitely will NOT buy a sub now, mostly because i dont feel the need for one, but also because i dont have money, but lets say i wanted a 7.2 system (it does have pre-out/LFE port)...could i just get a random sub and pair them, or would they have to be both of the same sub?

 

[fralexandr]

1) i don't see any links other than the CS2. You could buy 3x CS2 if you want. The CS2 is timbre matched with the polk Monitor 50 or the Monitor 60 for a more conventional setup

2) yep people do, but it's not necessary, most people stick with the smaller bookshelves as surrounds (it's a lot more compact and there are always options for speaker location, whereas floor standing almost always have to take up floor space)

3) yep any random sub will work

 

[ManBearPig]

Oh sorry, i guess that doesnt make sense lol.

1)If i bought that center, what towers would you recommend (please note i am poor haha)?

2)Would you recommend another speaker over this with a similar price?

P.S. I had no idea that audio shit was so expensive. I wish i was rich so i could drop retarded amounts of money on this stuff. I didn't believe you guys when you told me i would constantly be upgrading and it would get expensive.

 

[fralexandr]

if buying the CS2 i would recommend the polk monitor 60 (110x2 = $220), as it has better bass response and isn't much more expensive than the monitor 50.

the only other speakers i know enough about to suggest would be the infinity p362 (~$100-$130 each when on sale at frys) & pc350 center.
They rarely go on sale though :\, but if you want to wait a while you might get lucky. (also imo they don't look quite as pretty)

 

[ManBearPig]

I could definitely do that. Would you say that the Monitor70s are way better than the 60s though? (i need to find stuff to sell lol. i already have asked for donations from my family)

 

[fralexandr]

the monitor 70s are better if you don't plan on getting a subwoofer ever, but are muddier than the monitor 60s

 

[ManBearPig]

the monitor 70s are better if you don't plan on getting a subwoofer ever, but are muddier than the monitor 60s

ah, i have a sub (and i will upgrade later), so ill go with the 60s. nice that i save a few bucks too.

 

[jtvang125]

With your existing speakers make sure the center is at ear level when you're sitting down. Before I wall mounted the tv my center sat on the middle shelf of my stand and was way too low. The sound sounded low down by my feet and made it hard to hear. With the tv mounted I now have the space on top of the stand for the center and sits at ear level. Made a pretty big difference.

 

[SithSolo1]

If you don't want to spend a lot you could just get the Polk CS1 center and the Polk Monitor 40 bookshelf speakers. Then you would have the front 3 for under $200 shipped. Later on you could get Monitor 60s to replace the 40s and move the 40s to surround duty. Toss in another pair 30s or even a second set of 40s down the line to round out the 7 speakers. In the end if you buy them on sale it shouldn't run you more than $550 shipped for all 7 depending on color choice.

As for adding a 2nd sub for 7.2 you can mix and match but I'd personally want two of the same sub. I think you can just use a RCA spliter to send the signal to each.

 

[ManBearPig]

Good ideas sith, but since im gonna be forced to spend money anyway i might as well just get it over with. :awe: This way i (hopefully) wont get the itch to upgrade later. And i can always switch out the surrounds when i feel like it, as they arent as important. Im definitely not even going to think about subs, as i too would like two of the same, and id wanna get something decent, and that would add up fast.

jtvang, do you think it would be ok to just angle the speak up a little? i think thats my problem with this center right now. honestly it would be narrow and kind of underwhelming either way, but i think it would still help a lot. i do NOT have enough money to get a mount (nor do i feel like doing it lol).

 

[velillen]

If you can try to listen to these speakers before you buy. You might like one more than another even if they are both 100 bucks.

I went with full towers for the surrounds. But only cause i plan to put them in another room (bedroom) once i get a new house and use bookshelf type for the surrounds. I've never really seen a true definitive answer. Some poeple do some people dont sort of deal. I look at it more as (this is figure i heard, could be wrong but from experience is close) about 70% of the audio comes from the front three speakers. So focus there and use whatever for the surrounds pretty much.

As for speakers between dad and i we the one sin my sig and the infinity p361's (which are the same as the 362 and 363 just different cosmetically). The BA VR3 is the best out of the three but is also hard to find (outdated) and also twice as expensive as the Vr1/p362. Between the VR1 and p361....its a toss up. The p361 go lower but i felt it was a bit muddy down low. Upper wise they really sound about the same to my ears. I liked the uppers (higher ranges that is) on the p361 but liked the lowers/mid bass more on the vr1's. If i had a sub and i liked how the sub was i'd probably go Vr1's personally. if i didnt have a sub or it was small id go p361's to get the lower a bit more.

jtvang, do you think it would be ok to just angle the speak up a little? i think thats my problem with this center right now. honestly it would be narrow and kind of underwhelming either way, but i think it would still help a lot. i do NOT have enough money to get a mount (nor do i feel like doing it lol).

I've heard of people doing it and saying it helped. Worth just giving it a shot. Put books under to tip it up. I havent tried it so cant help but its definitely a quick 5 minute test for free

And trust me you've barely touched the tip of the iceberg for cost! Wait till you want dedicated amps for speakers and multizone audio and the such

 

[Anubis]

And trust me you've barely touched the tip of the iceberg for cost! Wait till you want dedicated amps for speakers and multizone audio and the such

yea stay far away from that your wallet will thank you

as well as your sanity. too much info out there and too many options

 

[ManBearPig]

Wait a sec, i was also wondering about this...why DO you need amps? I thought a receiver would be sufficient. Are higher end speakers really power hungry or something? Would adding an amp increase the sound quality with a receiver that is already sufficient for the speakers? Damn you people.

 

[Smoove910]

CS2 is matched to the Monitor 70's... the CS1 (which I have) is perfect for the Monitor 50's and Monitor 60's (which I have). Can't complain at all about the sound quality. I don't ask for much and these suite me fine!

 

[ManBearPig]

CS2 is matched to the Monitor 70's... the CS1 (which I have) is perfect for the Monitor 50's and Monitor 60's (which I have). Can't complain at all about the sound quality. I don't ask for much and these suite me fine!

damn so if i get the cs2 and the 60s it wont match up correctly?!

 

[velillen]

Wait a sec, i was also wondering about this...why DO you need amps? I thought a receiver would be sufficient. Are higher end speakers really power hungry or something? Would adding an amp increase the sound quality with a receiver that is already sufficient for the speakers? Damn you people.

You're best bet....just stop thinking about it First off your receiver probably doesnt have preouts for external amplification.

As for why....well it depends on the speaker itself as well. Then the receiver. And lastly your listening level. if you listen to it near reference or at louder volumes and just have a receiver it can be a bit distorted and fatiguing on the ears. This is just due to your speaker might be rated for 150W but the amp only delivers 100W. So as the volume gets louder the receiver amp is maxxing out power output, getting hotter and the power adds distortion to the speaker. So the louder peaks and louder volumes just dont sound as good. Add a amp with headroom though and it can provide cleaner, distortion free (or less) distortion to the speaker. if you have a speaker wanting 350W max well your amp is limiting by a lot. The monitor 50 (from polk) and even the VR1, Vr3, and p362 are all fairly easy to drive speakers though and the receiver would be just fine. Thought he p362 i have heard do sound a bit better with external amps. Generally i have read and seen people saying it really helps most if you are listening at reference levels or just have the volume cranked a lot. Of course to m uch amp can just damage the speaker. 800W into a 150W speaker =/= good.

Like i said theres definitely many factors. At your price range and speaker selection there isnt much point. Your receiver is fine for your speaker selection.

damn so if i get the cs2 and the 60s it wont match up correctly?!

Honestly if you look around it's pretty split on cs1 vs cs2. Most people seem to say if you can fit it to get the cs2. Just do a google search and you can see plenty of discussions on that topic alone




And im not expert this is just me being me and what ive read/experienced as m ylittle dont take my word as set in stone primer

 

[Anubis]

what Vel said, allows you to get louder cleaner. is the simplest answer

 

[ManBearPig]

What exactly is all this talk about reference? I've seen subwoofers called reference subwoofers and all this reference volume talk...is that a standard volume used to test equipment or something?

Thanks, sorry for all the n00b questions.

Oh yeah, and if i get these better speakers, will i have to get better speaker wire over the shitty wire that came with the other speakers (but works)?

 

[velillen]

from memory (so might be wrong!) reference is 85db with ~105db peaks at listening position.

some people when asked what volume they listen to movies if you see like -15 that means their volume is 15 below reference level. My receiver is silly and doesnt do volume like that though i just listen to volume levels between 15-30. Many people find reference to be way to loud and sound like crap and fatiguing. Definitely an area where you need more expensive speakers IMO if listening at reference.

as for companies tossing in "reference" into titles of products. I wouldnt look to much into it. Sometimes its just a big marketing thing or just means its the companys flagship model

 

[Anubis]

buy better wire
use monoprice get 14 gauge its ceap

Reference is the level at which a film was mixed to be listened back at. At reference level, dialogue should be at 85dB and peaks should reach 105dB. at some measure of feet i cant remember what. anyway fucking loud most AVRs display this as 0.0 on the volume dial

 

[ManBearPig]

So begins the journey of seeing whether the cs2 match to the 60s. Some people say yes, others say no (because of the different sizes of the tweeters or something). Would it be overkill to get 70s if I already had a sub?

Also, I'm thinking of just switching to 5.1. Sometimes 7.1 doesn't sound right because many movies and games act like the side speakers are the rears, even with pl iix. And actual 7.1 mixes are pretty rare.

 

[Anubis]

So begins the journey of seeing whether the cs2 match to the 60s. Some people say yes, others say no (because of the different sizes of the tweeters or something). Would it be overkill to get 70s if I already had a sub?.

No not overkill

Also, I'm thinking of just switching to 5.1. Sometimes 7.1 doesn't sound right because many movies and games act like the side speakers are the rears, even with pl iix. And actual 7.1 mixes are pretty rare.

just do 5.1, you save money and in general you dont need to do 7 unless you are setting up a true dedicated HT