Questions about installation of new system with SSD (Samsung 830)

[nine9s]

I am building a new PC soon (components ordered) and will use a new Samsung 830 256GB.

1) TRIM:
A Samsung person indicated that the drive does its own TRIM. He said to let the Magician program over-allocated 10% or so of space to use for management of TRIM . How do I make sure TRIM is on? Does the drive do it automatically through Magician? No O/S option?

Should there be an option, with Magician, to enable TRIM to work with that over-allocated space the Samsung rep was describing?

Should I do anything with any O/S setting?

2) Intel Smart Response system:

Also, I am getting an Ivy Bridge CPU and will have a hard drive for data (probably put games on SSD.) Should I also do Intel Smart Response? Or if just data type stuff on hard drive, no need? If so, is Intel Smart Response simply enabled in BIOS or do you have to do something in O/S too?

3) Installing O/S:

Any Dos or DONTs while installing Windows 7 on a SSD?

4) Post O/S installation:

Should Samsung's Magician handle most post-installation things (supposedly it has a wizard to indicate Windows services etc. that should be shut off with the option to turn them on/off.) Should I check for firmware update (Samsung rep said Amazon sells enough that any I buy now should have latest firmware, so he thought it would not be needed)? Does Magician software check and install new firmware?

 

[cmdrdredd]

Windows will automatically turn TRIM on (windows 7). No need to turn anything on. There is a command to check it's working but I forget it off the top of my head. A quick search should pull it up.

Intel drivers are needed to enable TRIM on their chipsets. Install the latest chipset drivers and their Rapid STorage Technology app and you're golden.

There's a guide for installing Windows 7 on an SSD as a sticky here. Basically just install it, install your drivers, update windows and don't ever run defragment on the SSD. That's it.

I would check firmware before using the drive. What I did was format my SSD and checked the firmware version. Then updated it prior to installing windows. I made sure to unplug every drive other than the SSD when installing windows just so it would load the Boot section on the SSD and not the HDD which it did my first time.

 

[nine9s]

I would check firmware before using the drive. What I did was format my SSD and checked the firmware version. Then updated it prior to installing windows. I made sure to unplug every drive other than the SSD when installing windows just so it would load the Boot section on the SSD and not the HDD which it did my first time.

Thanks but I will be installing Windows 7 onto the SSD but it is a new build. How can I check/update firmware on it before installing O/S? Is there a way and is that step really necessary?

 

[cmdrdredd]

I wanted to do it cause I knew my M4 had a new revision available. Samsung has a bootable ISO you can burn to a CD and start up from to update the drive's firmware.

 

[nine9s]

I wanted to do it cause I knew my M4 had a new revision available. Samsung has a bootable ISO you can burn to a CD and start up from to update the drive's firmware.

So I can use another PC to download a bootable ISO with latest firmware?

 

[taltamir]

Windows will automatically turn TRIM on (windows 7). No need to turn anything on. There is a command to check it's working but I forget it off the top of my head. A quick search should pull it up.

It should be noted that this command only tests if windows itself had the generation of TRIM commands manually disabled or not.

It does not test if your drive is actually receiving it. (which requires that windows generate the TRIM commands, that the driver support it, and that the drive support it).

 

[cmdrdredd]

It should be noted that this command only tests if windows itself had the generation of TRIM commands manually disabled or not.

It does not test if your drive is actually receiving it. (which requires that windows generate the TRIM commands, that the driver support it, and that the drive support it).

Correct, I did not make note of this.

However, As long as you install WIndows 7 on the drive (duh lol), install Intel chipset drivers and Rapid Storage Technology, and have a SSD that supports TRIM (Samsung 830 does), you're fine.

 

[nine9s]

Correct, I did not make note of this.

However, As long as you install WIndows 7 on the drive (duh lol), install Intel chipset drivers and Rapid Storage Technology, and have a SSD that supports TRIM (Samsung 830 does), you're fine.

Is it okay to not install Rapid Storage Technology? This thread makes me leery of it: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2245145

 

[taltamir]

Is it okay to not install Rapid Storage Technology? This thread makes me leery of it: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2245145

Yes. windows7 built in AHCI driver supports TRIM.

 

[krimsonstudios]

Make sure to enable AHCI in BIOS before you install the OS. It can be problematic if you try to switch from IDE to AHCI after the fact.

 

[MoInSTL]

So I can use another PC to download a bootable ISO with latest firmware?

From their FAQ: The only way to update the firmware on your SSD is to use the SSD Magician Tool. Click here to download the SSD Magician Tool. This software only is Windows compatible and is not supported by Linux or Macintosh.

http://www.samsung.com/us/support/owners/product/MZ-7PC064D/AM?

If you register your drive online, they will give you an additional 3 months warranty.
You can use the link above to register it, read the FAQ, watch a product video, download SSD Magician and the firmware.

Edit: The SSD Magician has a lot of tools and updating the firmware was not a big deal, just follow the instructions. Mine needed to be updated and it was successful.

 

[nine9s]

Yes. windows7 built in AHCI driver supports TRIM.

Thanks. Two more questions please:

With AHCI set in BIOS and if running Windows 7, is TRIM (1) automatic if my drive supports it or (2) I must enable/turn on TRIM? If 2 is what you have to do, how?

 

[Coup27]

It is not true you can only update a Samsung drive through windows using the magician.

There is an ISO you can download from the support page (linked above) which you can burn, boot and update in Linux. This is the method I used both times to update my drive.

 

[taltamir]

Thanks. Two more questions please:

With AHCI set in BIOS and if running Windows 7, is TRIM (1) automatic if my drive supports it or (2) I must enable/turn on TRIM? If 2 is what you have to do, how?

You don't need to do anything other than installing windows7 and enabling AHCI in BIOS (which you should do even if using a HDD).

 

[BrunoLogan]

What about moving the virtual memory and users folder to other non ssd disk, disabling restore points? Isn't that a good practice anymore?

 

[Shmee]

or disabling hibernation? I would recommend that.

 

[BrunoLogan]

or disabling hibernation? I would recommend that.

Yes. That one too... I forgot about that one.

 

[Cerb]

What about moving the page file and users folder to other non ssd disk, disabling restore points? Isn't that a good practice anymore?

Moving your page file to a HDD is silly, given that the SSD is much faster, and page file access is a common latency bottleneck. Moving the page file to a second HDD, when you had two HDDs, made sense.

User folder...depends on how much you want to store. If you're OK with everything not being in your documents, there's no good reason to move it.

Removing old restore points, once you are up and running, with all updates, will free up space. I do PC support, so I kind of like leaving restore points turned on, myself.

Now, if there were just a way to safely prune WinSXS...

 

[taltamir]

What about moving the virtual memory and users folder to other non ssd disk, disabling restore points? Isn't that a good practice anymore?

virtual memory, aka page file, should be on the drive with the fastest random writes.
It was only recommened to move it off of SSDs because first gen jmicron SSDs were about 100x slower then HDDs in random performance. Since modern SSD drives are about 100x faster then HDDs on random writes, it is recommened that you keep virutal memory on them.

Disabling system restore: I have seen UNTRUSTWORTHY sources say that you should disable it because it uses something called shadowcopy that does not at all play nice with SSDs. I got no clue if there is anything to it but I figure if there was someone trustworthy like anandtech.com would say something.

 

[BrunoLogan]

virtual memory, aka page file, should be on the drive with the fastest random writes.
It was only recommened to move it off of SSDs because first gen jmicron SSDs were about 100x slower then HDDs in random performance. Since modern SSD drives are about 100x faster then HDDs on random writes, it is recommened that you keep virutal memory on them.

Disabling system restore: I have seen UNTRUSTWORTHY sources say that you should disable it because it uses something called shadowcopy that does not at all play nice with SSDs.

The objective of moving all the stuff I mentioned away from the SSD is to minimize the number of writes on the SSD in order to extend its lifespan. I know that having the page file on the SSD speeds things up but it can lower the lifespan of the device, no?

 

[nine9s]

Can't you just put system restore on the HDD?

 

[Cerb]

Disabling system restore: I have seen UNTRUSTWORTHY sources say that you should disable it because it uses something called shadowcopy that does not at all play nice with SSDs.

Wouldn't that make 99% of user-space backup software for Windows not play nice with SSDs, too?

The objective of moving all the stuff I mentioned away from the SSD is to minimize the number of writes on the SSD in order to extend its lifespan. I know that having the page file on the SSD speeds things up but it can lower the lifespan of the device, no?

Yes, but unless you are writing many tens of GBs per day, random, it's typically not worth worrying over.

 

[taltamir]

The objective of moving all the stuff I mentioned away from the SSD is to minimize the number of writes on the SSD in order to extend its lifespan. I know that having the page file on the SSD speeds things up but it can lower the lifespan of the device, no?

When that advice was given, the primary objective was to prevent the system from becoming non responsive, which was later discovered to be due to the atrocious seek times on jmicron fist gen SSDs (with it taking literally several seconds to do a random write on occasion).

Lifespan was indeed a secondary objective... but it is rather irrelevant. Paging, indexing, and all those others generate so little write that they are utterly irrelevant on a modern drive.

Wouldn't that make 99% of user-space backup software for Windows not play nice with SSDs, too?

Great point, and anandtech is pointing out all those other issues SSDs are having yet never ever mentioned this.
As I said, untrustworthy sources. Known to give nonsense advice about SSDs. (some users here and some blogs with lots of bad info).

 

[Coup27]

Disabling system restore: I have seen UNTRUSTWORTHY sources say that you should disable it because it uses something called shadowcopy that does not at all play nice with SSDs. I got no clue if there is anything to it but I figure if there was someone trustworthy like anandtech.com would say something.

I disable system restore because it is a total waste of time and space.

 

[Cerb]

I disable system restore because it is a total waste of time and space.

If reloading the OS is not at all a problem when/if something screws up, go right ahead. On Windows 7, system restore does actually do a pretty good job at its intended functions, at least not doing any harm, if it doesn't help; as opposed to the roulette of XP system restore.