Questions about bonds

[K1052]

I'd say you are being a little overly cautious based on what you've said. Kind of like getting burned and deciding never to use any form of fire/heat again.

As long as you are clear of your issues I don't see the big deal. I might keep a larger pure cash cushion in my immediate possession but that's about it.

Unless the financial markets totally go down the crapper and major banks fail I'll be relatively ok since I'm diversified enough.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: K1052
I'd say you are being a little overly cautious based on what you've said. Kind of like getting burned and deciding never to use any form of fire/heat again.

As long as you are clear of your issues I don't see the big deal. I might keep a larger pure cash cushion in my immediate possession but that's about it.

Unless the financial markets totally go down the crapper and major banks fail I'll be relatively ok since I'm diversified enough.

I know, but I'm a pure idealist. I care about what's right more than anything else. The loss of that money and damage to my credit mattered far less to me than the fact that I was taken and couldn't do anything about it. I just can't go through it again. Ever. For any reason.

 

[iversonyin]

Swiss account? Offshore account? Get a lawyer, they can get you hide your money without having your identity attach to it. Sound like you are in a bad one. I couldn't think of any way out neither. Good luck.

Yea, getting your account frozen by the government SUCKS. Even tho you are not guilty of anything. Government is the biggest robber.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
What about paper stock certificates for major US corporations?

You'll get some growth in value, while your coffee cans o' cash lose value steadily to inflation.

Is there anything to prevent those certificates from being redeemed, or could they ever be invalidated? By either the government or the corporation itself, or any other third party?

Even if you hold the certificates, there is a record with the stock transfer agent that you hold it.

I don't care about records, again I plan on claiming any earnings. I just care that someone can't press a key on a computer in Olympia or Washington DC and actually physically gain control of my assets.

They can invalidate your certificates and issue new ones.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: iversonyin
Swiss account? Offshore account? Get a lawyer, they can get you hide your money without having your identity attach to it. Sound like you are in a bad one. I couldn't think of any way out neither. Good luck.

Yea, getting your account frozen by the government SUCKS. Even tho you are not guilty of anything. Government is the biggest robber.

Well that's an option to I guess since it is harder to get those funds seized/frozen.

 

[iversonyin]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
What about paper stock certificates for major US corporations?

You'll get some growth in value, while your coffee cans o' cash lose value steadily to inflation.

Is there anything to prevent those certificates from being redeemed, or could they ever be invalidated? By either the government or the corporation itself, or any other third party?

Even if you hold the certificates, there is a record with the stock transfer agent that you hold it.

I don't care about records, again I plan on claiming any earnings. I just care that someone can't press a key on a computer in Olympia or Washington DC and actually physically gain control of my assets.

They can invalidate your certificates and issue new ones.

In his case, theres nothing better than hiding his money physically.

 

[PrinceofWands]

So far it sounds like the best/safest options are precious metals, or foreign bearer bonds (if I can find any that are reasonably stable/safe). Anyone know offhand the history of metal values, or foreign bond returns?

 

[thomsbrain]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I'm getting closer to starting my new career so I'll soon find myself with a lot of extra money. For various reasons I don't use banks or allow anyone else control of my money so in the past I've simply put my money in my safe or other secure locations. In the near future the amounts will be large enough that I would much rather find a way to earn at least a little something on it for retirement, not to mention getting into issues with the sheer bulk of keeping all that cash.

The key, for me, is that I need to have total physical control. I won't do anything that can be interfered with by another party/agency. I originally thought about something like bearer bonds, but I understand they're no longer legal in the US. My understanding is that they're still issued in other countries though, so is it that you can't issue them in the US, or that you can't even have them in the US? I know there are still other forms of bonds, so what are the differences? What kind of payoff is there for such investments? Is there anything similar, where you get a physical object which is absolutely redeemable for cash and cannot be interfered with?

I'm not trying to avoid tax or anything like that, I'm happy to report any earnings and be above board. I just can't release physical control over my money. Any information or help is appreciated.

I think you should invest in a mental institution. Probably better for you in the long run.

Yes, because there's no logic or reason behind what I said. Nothing has ever happened to anyone (especially me) that would lead someone to this position.

that is precisely WHY you should invest in professional therapy to deal with your PHOBIA about money. you have a problem. you've made it clear that something happened (or you believe something happened) that now makes you wary of banks. but hundreds of millions of us use banks every day with no problems. your fear is irrational. it's like not being able to be around any dog because one dog bit you. it's called a phobia. and you'll need help to get over it. unlike dogs, you can't just avoid banks for your entire life. if you have a real job, and you want to buy real things like cars or houses, you will need a bank account. period.

i can imagine nothing LESS secure than keeping that kind of money or physical investment documentation around your house. you're just BEGGING to be robbed.

money lesson #1: don't keep it in your home.
money lesson #2: do keep it in the bank.


edit: i read the rest of the thread. i still think you need help. and a better LAWYER.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: iversonyin

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
What about paper stock certificates for major US corporations?

You'll get some growth in value, while your coffee cans o' cash lose value steadily to inflation.

Is there anything to prevent those certificates from being redeemed, or could they ever be invalidated? By either the government or the corporation itself, or any other third party?

Even if you hold the certificates, there is a record with the stock transfer agent that you hold it.

I don't care about records, again I plan on claiming any earnings. I just care that someone can't press a key on a computer in Olympia or Washington DC and actually physically gain control of my assets.

They can invalidate your certificates and issue new ones.

In his case, theres nothing better than hiding his money physically.

Agreed. Offshore sounds like the best option if he has enough assets to transfer.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: iversonyin
Swiss account? Offshore account? Get a lawyer, they can get you hide your money without having your identity attach to it. Sound like you are in a bad one. I couldn't think of any way out neither. Good luck.

Yea, getting your account frozen by the government SUCKS. Even tho you are not guilty of anything. Government is the biggest robber.

Well that's an option to I guess since it is harder to get those funds seized/frozen.

My understanding was that most of those types of accounts don't pay interest, so they wouldn't qualify as investments. Although it would be safer than my safe at home.

 

[BigJ]

So if you don't believe in financial institutions, what are you doing for retirement?

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: iversonyin

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
What about paper stock certificates for major US corporations?

You'll get some growth in value, while your coffee cans o' cash lose value steadily to inflation.

Is there anything to prevent those certificates from being redeemed, or could they ever be invalidated? By either the government or the corporation itself, or any other third party?

Even if you hold the certificates, there is a record with the stock transfer agent that you hold it.

I don't care about records, again I plan on claiming any earnings. I just care that someone can't press a key on a computer in Olympia or Washington DC and actually physically gain control of my assets.

They can invalidate your certificates and issue new ones.

In his case, theres nothing better than hiding his money physically.

Agreed. Offshore sounds like the best option if he has enough assets to transfer.

Why even bother? I took one look at this train wreck and laughed my arse off.

Ohh, BTW, I am moving up to NYC next week. New job!

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I'm getting closer to starting my new career so I'll soon find myself with a lot of extra money. For various reasons I don't use banks or allow anyone else control of my money so in the past I've simply put my money in my safe or other secure locations. In the near future the amounts will be large enough that I would much rather find a way to earn at least a little something on it for retirement, not to mention getting into issues with the sheer bulk of keeping all that cash.

The key, for me, is that I need to have total physical control. I won't do anything that can be interfered with by another party/agency. I originally thought about something like bearer bonds, but I understand they're no longer legal in the US. My understanding is that they're still issued in other countries though, so is it that you can't issue them in the US, or that you can't even have them in the US? I know there are still other forms of bonds, so what are the differences? What kind of payoff is there for such investments? Is there anything similar, where you get a physical object which is absolutely redeemable for cash and cannot be interfered with?

I'm not trying to avoid tax or anything like that, I'm happy to report any earnings and be above board. I just can't release physical control over my money. Any information or help is appreciated.

I think you should invest in a mental institution. Probably better for you in the long run.

Yes, because there's no logic or reason behind what I said. Nothing has ever happened to anyone (especially me) that would lead someone to this position.

that is precisely WHY you should invest in professional therapy to deal with your PHOBIA about money. you have a problem. you've made it clear that something happened (or you believe something happened) that now makes you wary of banks. but hundreds of millions of us use banks every day with no problems. your fear is irrational. it's like not being able to be around any dog because one dog bit you. it's called a phobia. and you'll need help to get over it. unlike dogs, you can't just avoid banks for your entire life. if you have a real job, and you want to buy real things like cars or houses, you will need a bank account. period.

i can imagine nothing LESS secure than keeping that kind of money or physical investment documentation around your house. you're just BEGGING to be robbed.

money lesson #1: don't keep it in your home.
money lesson #2: do keep it in the bank.

And yet I've lived fine for years without a bank. I get my checks directly, cash them, save the money. I buy the things I want using cash (yes even my last two cars). If it has to be sent through the mail I use money orders or cashier checks. There is NO requirement to use a bank in the world. There is no necessity to do so.

Again, if it had happened once I would be able to go beyond it. But the fact that it keeps happening, and to others besides just myself, shows that it isn't as rare as you seem to believe. It's like people that scoff at someone who carries a gun just because they themselves have never been a victim. I'm glad you've never had issues but that in no way invalidates the reality of my experiences. I don't consider that a phobia, I call it learning lessons from life.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: BigJ
So if you don't believe in financial institutions, what are you doing for retirement?

Posting here to find out about alternatives.

And once I get into the new career I'll probably contact a professional planner as well. For now I'm just trying to start learning about my options.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: BigJ
So if you don't believe in financial institutions, what are you doing for retirement?

Posting here to find out about alternatives.

And once I get into the new career I'll probably contact a professional planner as well. For now I'm just trying to start learning about my options.

Look, coming from a guy who has his CFA charter, I have to say that your idea of investments is just plain silly. You got yourself into this situation and yes, you had bad experiences, but you put yourself there. Even if you put your money into bullion or stuffed it under your mattress, they can still get to other assets or just directly garnish your wages or foreclose on property. About the only way you can avoid that is to go completely cash and have no actual assets and stash that under the mattress.

Your aversion is misplaced and just not reasonable. Forgoing major returns for a false sense of security really highlights your irrational paranoia. Any CFA charterholder or CFP will tell you that your chances of saving for retirement in a reasonable fashion while adhering to your irrational expectations are not reasonable.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: iversonyin

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
What about paper stock certificates for major US corporations?

You'll get some growth in value, while your coffee cans o' cash lose value steadily to inflation.

Is there anything to prevent those certificates from being redeemed, or could they ever be invalidated? By either the government or the corporation itself, or any other third party?

Even if you hold the certificates, there is a record with the stock transfer agent that you hold it.

I don't care about records, again I plan on claiming any earnings. I just care that someone can't press a key on a computer in Olympia or Washington DC and actually physically gain control of my assets.

They can invalidate your certificates and issue new ones.

In his case, theres nothing better than hiding his money physically.

Agreed. Offshore sounds like the best option if he has enough assets to transfer.

Why even bother? I took one look at this train wreck and laughed my arse off.

Ohh, BTW, I am moving up to NYC next week. New job!

Congratz biatch!

 

[everman]

If someone wants to get your assets then they can no matter where they are or how they are denominated. You should just move to Switzerland, change your name, and become a dairy farmer (or a shoe maker).

 

[DaveSimmons]

You've been burned before, and have good reason to keep some of your money in cash, perhaps even several months' worth of living expenses.

Keeping all of your money in zero-growth non-investments just because it might, possibly, be temporarily frozen again is, I'm sorry, very very stupid.

The most conservative of all [ stock-based ] mutual fund investments, S&P 500 index funds, has historically earned 10-12% a year over decades.

$25,000 in a coffee can over 25 years = $25,000.
$25,000 in vanguard.com's VFINX S&P 500 fund at 10% = $270,867.

 

[iversonyin]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: BigJ
So if you don't believe in financial institutions, what are you doing for retirement?

Posting here to find out about alternatives.

And once I get into the new career I'll probably contact a professional planner as well. For now I'm just trying to start learning about my options.

Look, coming from a guy who has his CFA charter, I have to say that your idea of investments is just plain silly. You got yourself into this situation and yes, you had bad experiences, but you put yourself there. Even if you put your money into bullion or stuffed it under your mattress, they can still get to other assets or just directly garnish your wages or foreclose on property. About the only way you can avoid that is to go completely cash and have no actual assets and stash that under the mattress.

Your aversion is misplaced and just not reasonable. Forgoing major returns for a false sense of security really highlights your irrational paranoia. Any CFA charterholder or CFP will tell you that your chances of saving for retirement in a reasonable fashion while adhering to your irrational expectations are not reasonable.

He need a lawyer, not a financial planner/analyst. I don't think his fear is that irrational after hearing his story.

But for now, its good to stash a retirement account with some sort of financial institutions. (% of his asset). Other part, he's better off hiding it in forms where U.S. Govt can't touch it. I don't think CFA can teach you how to do that, so you are better off with a lawyer.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: iversonyin

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: BigJ
So if you don't believe in financial institutions, what are you doing for retirement?

Posting here to find out about alternatives.

And once I get into the new career I'll probably contact a professional planner as well. For now I'm just trying to start learning about my options.

Look, coming from a guy who has his CFA charter, I have to say that your idea of investments is just plain silly. You got yourself into this situation and yes, you had bad experiences, but you put yourself there. Even if you put your money into bullion or stuffed it under your mattress, they can still get to other assets or just directly garnish your wages or foreclose on property. About the only way you can avoid that is to go completely cash and have no actual assets and stash that under the mattress.

Your aversion is misplaced and just not reasonable. Forgoing major returns for a false sense of security really highlights your irrational paranoia. Any CFA charterholder or CFP will tell you that your chances of saving for retirement in a reasonable fashion while adhering to your irrational expectations are not reasonable.

He need a lawyer, not a financial planner/analyst. I don't think his fear is that irrational after hearing his story.

But for now, its good to stash a retirement account with some sort of financial institutions. (% of his asset). Other part, he's better off hiding it in forms where U.S. Govt can't touch it. I don't think CFA can teach you how to do that, so you are better off with a lawyer.

I would certainly agree that a CFA can't. There are accounts which the government can't touch, an example is OJ's NFL retirement. However, being able to set those up to be impervious to government tampering is very very difficult and out of the reach of most people. Just take a look at his royalties or even autograph revenue, it gets garnished and confiscated.

If you owe money and you get paid a paycheck it doesn't matter if you have cash stashed in offshore accounts, if there is .01 sitting here or $2000/wk coming in from your regular job, they'll take it.

That's my main point. No matter where he puts his money there is *ALWAYS* going to be exposure. You can attempt to reduce that exposure, but at what cost? As pointed out above, compounding returns on regular equity will yield a much better return.

In the end is his irrationality actually going to pay off for him?

 

[BarneyFife]

Whats going to happen when you go to work one day and someone takes all of your money under your mattress? Frankly, you are being silly.

 

[iversonyin]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: iversonyin

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: BigJ
So if you don't believe in financial institutions, what are you doing for retirement?

Posting here to find out about alternatives.

And once I get into the new career I'll probably contact a professional planner as well. For now I'm just trying to start learning about my options.

Look, coming from a guy who has his CFA charter, I have to say that your idea of investments is just plain silly. You got yourself into this situation and yes, you had bad experiences, but you put yourself there. Even if you put your money into bullion or stuffed it under your mattress, they can still get to other assets or just directly garnish your wages or foreclose on property. About the only way you can avoid that is to go completely cash and have no actual assets and stash that under the mattress.

Your aversion is misplaced and just not reasonable. Forgoing major returns for a false sense of security really highlights your irrational paranoia. Any CFA charterholder or CFP will tell you that your chances of saving for retirement in a reasonable fashion while adhering to your irrational expectations are not reasonable.

He need a lawyer, not a financial planner/analyst. I don't think his fear is that irrational after hearing his story.

But for now, its good to stash a retirement account with some sort of financial institutions. (% of his asset). Other part, he's better off hiding it in forms where U.S. Govt can't touch it. I don't think CFA can teach you how to do that, so you are better off with a lawyer.

I would certainly agree that a CFA can't. There are accounts which the government can't touch, an example is OJ's NFL retirement. However, being able to set those up to be impervious to government tampering is very very difficult and out of the reach of most people. Just take a look at his royalties or even autograph revenue, it gets garnished and confiscated.

If you owe money and you get paid a paycheck it doesn't matter if you have cash stashed in offshore accounts, if there is .01 sitting here or $2000/wk coming in from your regular job, they'll take it.

That's my main point. No matter where he puts his money there is *ALWAYS* going to be exposure. You can attempt to reduce that exposure, but at what cost? As pointed out above, compounding returns on regular equity will yield a much better return.

In the end is his irrationality actually going to pay off for him?

Well, let say he put everything he has now into work. Index funds, bonds, commodity ETFs. If he get into trouble and once again get everything frozen. He is better off having those cash in a safe/mattress/discreet location.

It seem like this is more of a legal issue than a financial issue. But he's definitely in financial trouble if he doesn't put his money to work soon- and he knows it. So, like I said, consult a lawyer.

Not that I have anything against CFA since I'm taking the test in June, but this just isn't a regular financial problem.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: iversonyin

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: iversonyin

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: BigJ
So if you don't believe in financial institutions, what are you doing for retirement?

Posting here to find out about alternatives.

And once I get into the new career I'll probably contact a professional planner as well. For now I'm just trying to start learning about my options.

Look, coming from a guy who has his CFA charter, I have to say that your idea of investments is just plain silly. You got yourself into this situation and yes, you had bad experiences, but you put yourself there. Even if you put your money into bullion or stuffed it under your mattress, they can still get to other assets or just directly garnish your wages or foreclose on property. About the only way you can avoid that is to go completely cash and have no actual assets and stash that under the mattress.

Your aversion is misplaced and just not reasonable. Forgoing major returns for a false sense of security really highlights your irrational paranoia. Any CFA charterholder or CFP will tell you that your chances of saving for retirement in a reasonable fashion while adhering to your irrational expectations are not reasonable.

He need a lawyer, not a financial planner/analyst. I don't think his fear is that irrational after hearing his story.

But for now, its good to stash a retirement account with some sort of financial institutions. (% of his asset). Other part, he's better off hiding it in forms where U.S. Govt can't touch it. I don't think CFA can teach you how to do that, so you are better off with a lawyer.

I would certainly agree that a CFA can't. There are accounts which the government can't touch, an example is OJ's NFL retirement. However, being able to set those up to be impervious to government tampering is very very difficult and out of the reach of most people. Just take a look at his royalties or even autograph revenue, it gets garnished and confiscated.

If you owe money and you get paid a paycheck it doesn't matter if you have cash stashed in offshore accounts, if there is .01 sitting here or $2000/wk coming in from your regular job, they'll take it.

That's my main point. No matter where he puts his money there is *ALWAYS* going to be exposure. You can attempt to reduce that exposure, but at what cost? As pointed out above, compounding returns on regular equity will yield a much better return.

In the end is his irrationality actually going to pay off for him?

Well, let say he put everything he has now into work. Index funds, bonds, commodity ETFs. If he get into trouble and once again get everything frozen. He is better off having those cash in a safe/mattress/discreet location.

It seem like this is more of a legal issue than a financial issue. But he's definitely in financial trouble if he doesn't put his money to work soon- and he knows it. So, like I said, consult a lawyer.

Not that I have anything against CFA since I'm taking the test in June, but this just isn't a regular financial problem.

Yeah, I agree that he's better off having a portion of his assets in a "secured" medium, say some bullion or another metal. However, the bulk?

In order to hide the bulk you are going to need some serious legal firepower, as you mentioned. Even then, will it be worth it?

Ohhh, how much I am glad I am not in your position now. You have no idea how glad you will be when it's all done .

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: BigJ
So if you don't believe in financial institutions, what are you doing for retirement?

Posting here to find out about alternatives.

And once I get into the new career I'll probably contact a professional planner as well. For now I'm just trying to start learning about my options.

Look, coming from a guy who has his CFA charter, I have to say that your idea of investments is just plain silly. You got yourself into this situation and yes, you had bad experiences, but you put yourself there. Even if you put your money into bullion or stuffed it under your mattress, they can still get to other assets or just directly garnish your wages or foreclose on property. About the only way you can avoid that is to go completely cash and have no actual assets and stash that under the mattress.

Your aversion is misplaced and just not reasonable. Forgoing major returns for a false sense of security really highlights your irrational paranoia. Any CFA charterholder or CFP will tell you that your chances of saving for retirement in a reasonable fashion while adhering to your irrational expectations are not reasonable.

Yes, there are still liabilities. My house, my car(s), my salary, etc. However, if I have access to liquid assets (ie my savings) then even if they temporarily do any of those things I can survive until it all gets worked out. That's a key issue to me - being able to live and not face serious side effects from the actions of others. If I'd had a couple thousand dollars in my safe when I was going thru my issues with my ex then I could have lived, paid my bills, paid my lawyer (or for a better lawyer even), and been under much less stress until it all got worked out. Yes, I still would have taken it in the butt (as would my father) but it would have been far less than it was. By having all my savings under the control of other people I not only lost it all, but I was left with nothing to live off of. I don't see how anyone else supposedly 'balanced' and 'correct' view of things makes anything better for me under those circumstance. I do see how my method makes things better. I can also see how a mixture of the two provides positives on both sides, so I'm not completely against the idea of eventually beginning to try a few VERY low risk investments under the control of others. I wouldn't even think of it until I've got enough physically under my control survive another disaster though.

As for the whole retirement misconception: I live on about 10k a year. I have for the last 10 years. Before that I was making 2-3 times that and living large (by my standards). I live perfectly well. I don't much care for money, or material things. I live in the house I was born in. I own it outright. I don't plan on moving. I live in an EXTREMELY inexpensive area. My job is going to pay 3-4 times my living expenses in my first year and grow to 10 times my living expenses by retirement. I also do a number of other things for additional income. I don't use credit, so I never have any bills from such things. I also do most types of work myself (carpentry, plumbing, masonry, gardening, landscaping, auto repair, etc). That means I very seldom hire other people for things. When I absolutely have to I tend to find people that I know and work on a barter system. Most of my family dies by about 60. Some make it to 80, but very few. With as hard as I've been on my body I don't expect to make it to the higher end. Even if I do that's only a couple decades at most after retirement. I've read a lot on expected needs after retirement and it seems far beyond what I could ever need given my simple lifestyle. Maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't see where I need the kind of money people talk about. I understand why they need it...some people live in california or new york, some people need 30k a year (or even more *boggle*) just to cover basic bills, some people have expensive tastes. Those people aren't me.

If I'm wrong then I'm cruising for a bruising for sure. If you know where/why I'm wrong feel free to point it out - I'm always willing to learn new info and adjust my perception of reality.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: iversonyin

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: iversonyin

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: BigJ
So if you don't believe in financial institutions, what are you doing for retirement?

Posting here to find out about alternatives.

And once I get into the new career I'll probably contact a professional planner as well. For now I'm just trying to start learning about my options.

Look, coming from a guy who has his CFA charter, I have to say that your idea of investments is just plain silly. You got yourself into this situation and yes, you had bad experiences, but you put yourself there. Even if you put your money into bullion or stuffed it under your mattress, they can still get to other assets or just directly garnish your wages or foreclose on property. About the only way you can avoid that is to go completely cash and have no actual assets and stash that under the mattress.

Your aversion is misplaced and just not reasonable. Forgoing major returns for a false sense of security really highlights your irrational paranoia. Any CFA charterholder or CFP will tell you that your chances of saving for retirement in a reasonable fashion while adhering to your irrational expectations are not reasonable.

He need a lawyer, not a financial planner/analyst. I don't think his fear is that irrational after hearing his story.

But for now, its good to stash a retirement account with some sort of financial institutions. (% of his asset). Other part, he's better off hiding it in forms where U.S. Govt can't touch it. I don't think CFA can teach you how to do that, so you are better off with a lawyer.

I would certainly agree that a CFA can't. There are accounts which the government can't touch, an example is OJ's NFL retirement. However, being able to set those up to be impervious to government tampering is very very difficult and out of the reach of most people. Just take a look at his royalties or even autograph revenue, it gets garnished and confiscated.

If you owe money and you get paid a paycheck it doesn't matter if you have cash stashed in offshore accounts, if there is .01 sitting here or $2000/wk coming in from your regular job, they'll take it.

That's my main point. No matter where he puts his money there is *ALWAYS* going to be exposure. You can attempt to reduce that exposure, but at what cost? As pointed out above, compounding returns on regular equity will yield a much better return.

In the end is his irrationality actually going to pay off for him?

Well, let say he put everything he has now into work. Index funds, bonds, commodity ETFs. If he get into trouble and once again get everything frozen. He is better off having those cash in a safe/mattress/discreet location.

It seem like this is more of a legal issue than a financial issue. But he's definitely in financial trouble if he doesn't put his money to work soon- and he knows it. So, like I said, consult a lawyer.

Not that I have anything against CFA since I'm taking the test in June, but this just isn't a regular financial problem.

*nod* I assume there is a special area of law dealing with financial issues, and lawyers who specialize in it? Could the state BAR make recommendations along this line for my area?

I just want to remind people that I didn't come in here asking where to buy a big coffee can so I can continue to earn 0% interest. I came in asking if there were any investments that gave me physical control while still earning even a small return. Some people have offered information on these possibilities (foreign bearer bonds, metals, etc) and I thank them for it. Others have suggested going a route I hadn't considered: consulting a lawyer and finding ways to secure my money safely - and again, for that I thank them. Others just feel the need to call me crazy because I don't see things the way they do, or because I live a life that they can't understand. That's ok, I expected it, but I certainly don't thank them for it. I prefer people who are willing to be open to alternatives and accept that different people have different needs and wants and values.