Questions about bathroom Reno

[DrPizza]

Hold on sec, hardibacker -> thinset -> Red guard -> tile?

Sorry if that sound too dumb, shouldn't it be hardibacker -> Red guard -> thinset -> tile?

The tile is bonded to the Red Guard by thinset, of course. You wouldn't just stack them up against the wall. But, when you're installing the hardibacker, the guides I read recommend using the alkali resistant mesh tape & thinset along the seams between sheets of hardibacker - create one solid unit that is less likely to shift, rather than separate pieces.

 

[Greenman]

Anyone who is installing tile should get a copy of the TCNA Handbook and read it. When tile is done right it is done in one of the ways detailed within.

Good advice, but so few want to spend the $15. Why do it right when you can guess?

I use a whole set of field guides that I can't remember the name of right off hand. They cover electrical, plumbing, and HVAC. Very handy reference tool.

 

[NetWareHead]

I did use a mastic, behind the hardibacker where the hardibacker overlaps the lip of the floor pan. Felt paper overlapped the top of the mastic. Even if the silicone fails on the bottom of the tile, I still won't get water penetration from below.

DrPizza, do you have a pic or a resource that explains this technique you describe at the edge of the tiled surface?

 

[DrPizza]

DrPizza, do you have a pic or a resource that explains this technique you describe at the edge of the tiled surface?

I started looking - here's the video from James Hardy on installing hardibacker - someone questioned taping the joints - it's right about at the 5 minute mark in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFZNltmI0Ts In other words - the manufacturer says to do it that way.

This is the video that inspired me to use a mastic type of adhesive at the bottom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psf9cnYoVts

As Greenman pointed out, it's probably not necessary, but was for piece of mind. I didn't have to buy anything extra.

edit: If you're not cutting curves, I wouldn't recommend using a jig saw for cutting the hardibacker. Check for James Hardy videos on how to "cut" their stuff. I'd used it for a couple other projects and after seeing how they recommend doing it, was kicking myself. A sharp utility blade is a heck of a lot cheaper, and results in pretty much zero dust. (Score & snap)

 

[slag]

Mike Holmes overbuilds everything because material and labor are free, and he has all the time he needs to do it. He also has sponsors that want him to show off their products.
In the real world, there is a budget, a schedule, and no sponsor supplying free material.

Cement board isn't waterproof, that's why there is felt behind it.

Isn't that a weird way of looking at things? I would think you would want to put the waterproof membrane in front of the cement board, not behind it, so the cement board doesn't get wet.

 

[dphantom]

Good advice, but so few want to spend the $15. Why do it right when you can guess?

I use a whole set of field guides that I can't remember the name of right off hand. They cover electrical, plumbing, and HVAC. Very handy reference tool.

If you get a chance could you post back what your reference guides are? we'll be entering a remodel project soon and while much will be done by contractors, it is good to know what the guides say should be done. TIA

 

[NetWareHead]

If you get a chance could you post back what your reference guides are?

Seconded. Please share :thumbsup:

 

[Humpy]

Here's a couple:

Info on some of the most important and misunderstood aspects of construction like vapor barriers, insulation, venting, flashing, etc. from Joe Lstiburek. Look in the Articles and Papers and also the Guidance tabs: https://buildingscience.com/

Code books: https://archive.org/details/publicsafetycode

 

[Greenman]

Found them. Note that these aren't "how to" guides, they're code compliance guides. Great for those times when you scratch your head and say "can I do it this way?".

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&ke...vptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_2zem5tu91b_b


LOL. I just noticed that the fellow on the cover of the plumbing book appears to be sweating on a compression fitting.

 

[paperfist]

Found them. Note that these aren't "how to" guides, they're code compliance guides. Great for those times when you scratch your head and say "can I do it this way?".

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&ke...vptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_2zem5tu91b_b


LOL. I just noticed that the fellow on the cover of the plumbing book appears to be sweating on a compression fitting.

How does that work? I mean aren't some local city codes different then national ones?

 

[paperfist]

There is good enough, then overkill. You could add three four or five layers to your shower walls, but it's not necessary. If it's inexpensive, and makes you feel better about the job then do it, but it might not help.
Most of the baths I do are tile over mortar bed. The only membrane is tar paper. I've pulled those assembly's out that were over 60 years old with no visible rot or decay. I just pulled out a shower that was 10 years old, used four times a day, and it had no evidence of failure or leakage. It was Hardibacker nailed to framing, no waterproof membrane at all. While it's not something I'd do, it obviously worked.

Tight joint ceramic tile with non sanded grout is almost water proof, there should be very little moisture coming through the assembly. Most systems in use today rely on providing a path for that moisture to escape, and they work as long as you pay attention to the details. Beyond that you can spend as much time and effort as you want to achieve a totally water tight instillation, but understand that you're buying piece of mind, not a better job.

Edit: If waterproof integrity is your primary concern, a one or two piece fiberglass unit will never leak. But they look cheap and flimsy.

Interesting. I'm assuming since vertical wall tile really can't get super saturated it's not going to leak into the framing so much. I did my bath about 10 years ago this way (didn't know any better) with cement board and then tile. I'm going to be demoing it soon so can't wait to see what it looks like. The think the problem area is going to be a the caulk joints that leaked from time to time.

I still like Holmes philosophy, I don't think he's that over kill. If he is then at least he isn't like most contractors that go with the minimums just because then can.

Have you ever used Grout Boost that Lowes sells? I'm not sure of the brand, but I think if I read it correctly when mixed in the grout instead of water it makes it impervious to water. Would make for an added defense against water penetration.

 

[Greenman]

Interesting. I'm assuming since vertical wall tile really can't get super saturated it's not going to leak into the framing so much. I did my bath about 10 years ago this way (didn't know any better) with cement board and then tile. I'm going to be demoing it soon so can't wait to see what it looks like. The think the problem area is going to be a the caulk joints that leaked from time to time.

I still like Holmes philosophy, I don't think he's that over kill. If he is then at least he isn't like most contractors that go with the minimums just because then can.

Have you ever used Grout Boost that Lowes sells? I'm not sure of the brand, but I think if I read it correctly when mixed in the grout instead of water it makes it impervious to water. Would make for an added defense against water penetration.

Mike Holmes seems like a good guy, but he's not super builder. I watched an episode where he was framing with utility screws, that's contrary to code in most places.

Regards the code book, yes local jurisdictions have supplemental codes. It gets confusing.

I've never used grout boost, or anything like it, but I have seen several products recently that make the same claim. I haven't looked into them at all.

 

[dphantom]

Found them. Note that these aren't "how to" guides, they're code compliance guides. Great for those times when you scratch your head and say "can I do it this way?".

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&ke...vptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_2zem5tu91b_b


LOL. I just noticed that the fellow on the cover of the plumbing book appears to be sweating on a compression fitting.

Thanks much. We have a good contractor lined up but this will be great for checking. Much appreciated.

 

[zardthebuilder]

we opted for engineered stone for our tub surround. the three pieces (6 feet high) cost $520. we hate grout, so it was worth the extra money.