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Question to vegetarians (or anyone, really)

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what do you do on a road trip? Order a burger at McDonalds w/o the meat?

BK sells veggie burgers now, and they are pretty good.

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Originally posted by: MacBaine

Quote

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How can you justify killing a plant and not killing a cow? Just because the plant can't feel pain?
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Yes.
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So a person who is given anestetic(sp?) from a doctor and can't feel anything is justification for eating the person?

I think you are misunderstanding. Something not feeling pain is not justification for eating it. However, something feeling pain is justification to not eat it. Just because something doesn't feel pain doesn't mean I am going to eat it. A dead person doesn't feel pain, but I am not going to eat them. I understand that you aren't bashing vegetarianism, but you are just a little misinformed. 🙂
 
Originally posted by: MacBaine
what do you do on a road trip? Order a burger at McDonalds w/o the meat?

I think you are misunderstanding. Something not feeling pain is not justification for eating it. However, something feeling pain is justification to not eat it. Just because something doesn't feel pain doesn't mean I am going to eat it. A dead person doesn't feel pain, but I am not going to eat them. I understand that you aren't bashing vegetarianism, but you are just a little misinformed. 🙂
I don't think I'm misinformed (at least not yet 😉 ), it's the fact that people's response to my query has been that they will eat a plant, but not an animal because it feels no pain. How can you apply one standard to plants and another to something like a hunk of steel? It is logically incorrect.

 
Something not feeling pain is not justification for eating it. However, something feeling pain is justification to not eat it

Damn MAN! You even quoted the logic in question and still ignored it!


It's right there above in the quote thingy....you see it yet? Top line of my post. No you'll still ignore it and all the other reasons vegetarians chose their eating habits.

 
Originally posted by: flavio
Something not feeling pain is not justification for eating it. However, something feeling pain is justification to not eat it

Damn MAN! You even quoted the logic in question and still ignored it!


It's right there above in the quote thingy....you see it yet? Top line of my post. No you'll still ignore it and all the other reasons vegetarians chose their eating habits.

The fact of the matter is that they refuse to believe that things can happen without them fully comprehending the nature of the occurrance. Denial and argueing one side of an issue are also to blame in this situation.
 
Ok here is my question for the vegetarians posting in the thread. Do you drink milk, eat butter, eat most breads, eat cheese, use mayo?????? With a long list of other things. Do you use any animal by products? If you do AND use the argument of it being cruel then I think you are full of sh*t. Do I care if you change your mind? NO!

I have a few friends that are true vegans. They eat no food that has any animal products. I have great respect for what they do but vegetarians that start the crap of saying it is cruel to animals and proceed to drink their milk and eat any type of bread(some bread is vegan safe) around make me sick. They care nothing for animals. I am not aiming this at any one person in the thread.

I just feel that if you are going to play the game, it is cruel to animals, then you need to back your sh*t up and not eat any animal by products and that includes most bread that you buy. I never realized how many things have animal by products until I started hanging around my vegan friends.

Personally, I eat meat. I like it. I have seen the things that happen to animals. It really doesn't bother me. Everyone is free to choose what they think is best for them. For me that includes eatting bloody steaks 🙂


 
Originally posted by: flavio
Something not feeling pain is not justification for eating it. However, something feeling pain is justification to not eat it

Damn MAN! You even quoted the logic in question and still ignored it!


It's right there above in the quote thingy....you see it yet? Top line of my post. No you'll still ignore it and all the other reasons vegetarians chose their eating habits.
But you are ignoring my main question which is why. People have said that it's ok to eat plants because they don't feel pain, whereas animals do. My question is why? You just keep skirting around the issue that I'm trying to get at. I say that it doesn't matter if a plant or animal feels pain or not, if it's alive, it should be treated with the same respect as other life forms. It doesn't makes sense that you will not eat something because it feels pain, but then if it doesn't feel pain, you are undecided. Why is that? What is your criteria for determining if something is edible or not? This is the issue I'm trying to get at. And I'm only arguing this one issue reguarding something I heard a copule vegetarians say to me. Read the last line of the top post! I AM NOT AGAINST VEGETARIANS!!!
 
Originally posted by: Codewiz
Personally, I eat meat. I like it. I have seen the things that happen to animals. It really doesn't bother me. Everyone is free to choose what they think is best for them. For me that includes eatting bloody steaks 🙂

According to your own logic i don't need ANY valid reason to be a vegetarian other than because "i like it." Thanks for letting us off easily.
 
Originally posted by: nihil
Originally posted by: Codewiz
Personally, I eat meat. I like it. I have seen the things that happen to animals. It really doesn't bother me. Everyone is free to choose what they think is best for them. For me that includes eatting bloody steaks 🙂

According to your own logic i don't need ANY valid reason to be a vegetarian other than because "i like it." Thanks for letting us off easily.


You can do anything you want to in this respect. Who am I to tell you what to eat? I won't. BUT that doesn't change the fact that IF you don't eat animals because of the cruelty but then proceed to eat animal by projects, I will tell you that you are a hypocrit. You are full of crap and anything that comes out of your mouth is just hogwash. Especially if you tell people they should see the cruelty that is involved when it doesn't change the fact that you are part of the problem since you eat animal by products.


 
I say that it doesn't matter if a plant or animal feels pain or not, if it's alive, it should be treated with the same respect as other life forms. It doesn't makes sense that you will not eat something because it feels pain, but then if it doesn't feel pain, you are undecided.

Let me put it this way. As a vegetarian myself (not a vegan), I choose to eat plants and not animals. While I don't drink milk, I do, however, eat bread, occasional cheese, etc. I tried veganism for a few weeks, and the fact is that it would be near impossible for me to do so. Restrictions such as my budget, location, age, have made it very difficult for me to invest in products with no animal content whatsoever. I do try to minimize my intake of these products, but in todays marketplace, a vast majority of foods have some sort of animal product in them. By being a vegetarian, I try to minimize the amount of pain or suffering of animals that could be attributed to me.

I do not know how much easier I can explain it other than my previous quote on logic, but I will try a last time.

I do not deny the existance of the food chain, or the fact that things must die to give life to others. You said,

if it's alive, it should be treated with the same respect as other life forms

while the fact is, animals processed for meat are treated with absolutely no respect, from birth to death. I will not go into the details of this, but I am sure you know what I mean. Vegetables were meant to be eaten by Herbivores/omnivores. Animals were meant to be eaten by carnovires. I do not believe, however, that animals were meant to be made to suffer throguh their entire lives to feed a race of mostly herbivores, mostly because of taste. Nobody can deny the fact that nobody needs to eat meat. This believe started because people did not know how to balance their diet properly. The truth is, every nutrient we need to survive can be found in vegetables. A vast majorty of the "studies" that were done years ago that supposedly prove this have been debunked.

I don't know what else I can say that will explain it to you. I choose not to eat meat, because it minimizes the suffering that I cause. Vegetables feel not pain, you said so yourself. Hence, out of the two options I have (meat or vegetables), I choose vegetables. You cannot apply these standards to inedible objects, saying that since they feel no pain, I should eat them. That's silly. Anyway, I know you aren't bashing vegetarians or anything, I just don't know how else to explain it.
 
You can do anything you want to in this respect. Who am I to tell you what to eat? I won't. BUT that doesn't change the fact that IF you don't eat animals because of the cruelty but then proceed to eat animal by projects, I will tell you that you are a hypocrit. You are full of crap and anything that comes out of your mouth is just hogwash. Especially if you tell people they should see the cruelty that is involved when it doesn't change the fact that you are part of the problem since you eat animal by products.

So because we try to minimize our intake of these products, yet are unable to completely eliminate them due to any number of restrictions, we are still as part of the problem as you? Does that mean that somebody who recycles everything they can, and produces a fraction of the amount of waste that you do, they are full of crap? Or somebody who rides a bike to work instead of a car, yet they have to get power from a power plant that burns coal... they are as bad as the soccer mom who drives a 12 cylinder SUV to the store every day? Franky, you are full of crap, sir. And I consider everything to come out of your mouth as complete hogwash from now on. I am not going to say anything like, "You are covering up your guilt" or "you are trying to validate your beliefs", but if somebody should say those things, I can't be held responsible.
 
Originally posted by: MacBaine
You can do anything you want to in this respect. Who am I to tell you what to eat? I won't. BUT that doesn't change the fact that IF you don't eat animals because of the cruelty but then proceed to eat animal by projects, I will tell you that you are a hypocrit. You are full of crap and anything that comes out of your mouth is just hogwash. Especially if you tell people they should see the cruelty that is involved when it doesn't change the fact that you are part of the problem since you eat animal by products.

So because we try to minimize our intake of these products, yet are unable to completely eliminate them due to any number of restrictions, we are still as part of the problem as you? Does that mean that somebody who recycles everything they can, and produces a fraction of the amount of waste that you do, they are full of crap? Or somebody who rides a bike to work instead of a car, yet they have to get power from a power plant that burns coal... they are as bad as the soccer mom who drives a 12 cylinder SUV to the store every day? Franky, you are full of crap, sir. And I consider everything to come out of your mouth as complete hogwash from now on. I am not going to say anything like, "You are covering up your guilt" or "you are trying to validate your beliefs", but if somebody should say those things, I can't be held responsible.

Apparently we are fools for trying to make a difference. It's attitudes like that that contribute to the destruction of the earth. The fact of the matter is this, 1 is greater than 0. Thus, making some kind of contribution by being a vegetarian is better than being a carnivore and spiting those that don't eat meat.


 
It is PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Don't play the guilt game if you contribute to it. Don't bitch about it being cruel to animals if you eat animals. If it really means that much to you then you wouldn't eat any animal by products. I know many people that have eliminated ALL animal by products. I don't want to hear excuses. I don't agree with the slaughter of elephants for their ivory so guess what. I don't buy a damn thing that is ivory. I don't like the wishywashy game. Either stand up for what you believe or don't. Don't say it is cruel and lecture me then proceed to contribute to the problem.

If drink milk then that is the same as eatting a steak. They both contribute to the torture of animals. Don't argue about the cruelty and say that you won't eat a steak becauase of that but then proceed to go drink a tall glass of milk. That is just crap.

If you don't eat meat because you don't like it or just don't want to then more power to you. Just don't play the game that you dont do it because of cruelty then contribute to that same cruelty.


 
If drink milk then that is the same as eatting a steak. They both contribute to the torture of animals. Don't argue about the cruelty and say that you won't eat a steak becauase of that but then proceed to go drink a tall glass of milk. That is just crap.

You obviously didn't understand a WORD of my post.
rolleye.gif
 
As MacBaine has already stated himself, i also try to stay away from anything with animal products in them. Jello, milk, cheese, etc. I usually have soy milk or soy cheese too because my mother raised me on soy products and due to that i cannot digest most dairy products. So, by doing that i limit myself to the amount of animal cruelty that i would endorse due to my lack of consuming/using these products.
 
It is better to be part of the solution then none of the solution.

It is better to contribute to the effort than to do nothing.

It is better to try your best and make some difference than to not try at all and make no difference.


These are not complicated concepts
 
Originally posted by: flavio
It is better to be part of the solution then none of the solution.

It is better to contribute to the effort than to do nothing.

It is better to try your best and make some difference than to not try at all and make no difference.


These are not complicated concepts

Exactly. All of this apathy is non-productive, even counter-productive.
 
I am not even a vegetarian but I strive for it. I pretty much avoid all red meat, eat chicken occasionally, and love seafood. I buy soy or rice milk and cheese for the most part and buy organic vegetables whenever possible.
 
Two more questions for vegetarians:

1) Why do (most of) you get so bitter when questioned? and more importantly,

2) What are your views on fellatio?
 
Why do (most of) you get so bitter when questioned?

Probably because "questioning" us usually involves some inflammatory comment not meant to get our opinion, but often to force us to justify our stand point. Every comment made to justify our beliefs is usually met by an ignorant and unintelligent comment such as, "You guys are just wusses... I am going to eat a BIG JUICY STEAK NOW"
rolleye.gif
We get bitter because of the ignorance of the people asking the questions.
 
hopefully genetic engineering allows us to grow steaks from stemcells😉 efficiency and no brain! woo!

steak farming, well that would be awesome🙂
 
I don't know. The way I see it, if you're a vegetarian, you're competing with animals for their food. If you think about how many cute furry bunnies you might be starving the next time you gorge yourself on a green salad at lunchtime, I bet you won't mind helping yourself to a nice juicy T-bone for dinner.
 
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