Question on DisplayPort 1.2, 1.2a and 'Adaptive-Sync'

[JThorpe]

Hello All,

I was reading the news regarding VESA adding 'Adaptive-Sync' to the DisplayPort 1.2a standard and I have a question about that.

Do you have to have a GPU that has a 1.2a DisplayPort to connect to a monitor that has a 1.2a DisplayPort to take advantage of 'Adaptive-Sync'?

I currently have two 780 Ti's in SLI which have a 1.2 DisplayPort, and I am wondering if I will not be able to utilize 'Adaptive-Sync' if in the future I purchase a monitor that has the 1.2a DisplayPort.

Right now I am deciding on purchasing a G-Sync monitor, and If I cannot utilize 'Adaptive-Sync' because of my GPU's 1.2 DisplayPort that will make my decision easier. If I can connect to a 1.2a DisplayPort monitor with my 1.2 DisplayPort and utilize 'Adaptive-Sync' then I might hold off on the G-Sync monitor until the 1.2a monitors come out.

Thank you in advance
JThorpe

 

[Stuka87]

Currently only AMD GCN 1.1 cards have support for it. I am sure Intel will support it in the future, not sure on nVidia, since they have their own system, although it requires additional hardware inside the display.

Second, the monitor itself must support it. Currently their are no displays that support this. We are most likely several months away from any displays that support it being demo'ed, availability will most likely be a bit later than that.

Since you already have nVidia hardware, you can go with G-Sync. Problem there is the only displays that support it currently are pretty meh. Only 1080P and only TN. Unless some higher res better quality displays have just came out recently that I have not seen yet.

 

[3DVagabond]

Currently only AMD GCN 1.1 cards have support for it. I am sure Intel will support it in the future, not sure on nVidia, since they have their own system, although it requires additional hardware inside the display.

Second, the monitor itself must support it. Currently their are no displays that support this. We are most likely several months away from any displays that support it being demo'ed, availability will most likely be a bit later than that.

Since you already have nVidia hardware, you can go with G-Sync. Problem there is the only displays that support it currently are pretty meh. Only 1080P and only TN. Unless some higher res better quality displays have just came out recently that I have not seen yet.

As you said there are no A-sync monitors yet and beyond AMD's GCN1.1 cards nobody has chimed in claiming support. Being part of the 1.2a standard it's just a matter of time, but how much time nobody knows.

As far as G-sync monitors, has anyone released one yet? As far as I know nobody has. nVidia had some modules for sale but they were sold out last I checked.

 

[Hitman928]

Neither G-sync or A-sync is really an option right now. I just looked to see if G-sync monitors are available and there's nothing that I could find. Even going through Nvidia's website, they list the DIY modules as sold out with no pending date and the partners they guide you to for pre-installed options have nothing available. One listed an Asus monitor with G-sync for $500 but only for pre-order (monitor only on Newegg is $270). To me, you'd be crazy to pay nearly double the price of the monitor to get G-sync, but everyone has their priorities.

G-sync should be back to availability (I would hope) before A-sync monitors become available (probably ~8-12 months at best), but will still hold a hefty premium for the technology. Also be aware that having G-sync enabled monitors (whether pre-installed by a 3rd party or doing it yourself) voids your monitor warranty though the company who pre-installs it for you may give you some time of warranty themselves (be sure to check). My advice is to just wait it out until we hear a bit more about A-sync. If A-sync can get %90 of the performance of G-sync it may be worth it as it should be a much cheaper option. Even if not, hopefully G-sync monitors should come down in price in the future though I don't know how much as their method is extremely expensive to implement (considering the industry).

 

[Mand]

The limiting component to working A-Sync is a compatible monitor. AMD recently claimed 6-12 months, but I'm skeptical since they've released no information about hardware partnerships and no products are announced. Lots of things can happen to development estimates, nearly all of them bad. Given the utter lack of any information at all, and AMD's misrepresentation of pretty much everything FreeSync/A-Sync related, I am deeply, deeply skeptical.

G-Sync so far is just the DIY kit. The ASUS RoG Swift is set to be released somewhat soon. The last official word from ASUS was for a June release, but they recently announced an announcement at Computex which is in a few weeks. It's still possible it will hit in June, but it's entirely possible for a delay of some kind.

The DIY kits were never meant for mass implementation, they were there for the bleeding edge enthusiasts who were willing to do major surgery on their monitors.

There are a LOT of people waiting on the Swift. Expect demand to be higher than availability when it does show up.


To be very, very clear:

Just because a monitor is DP 1.2a DOES NOT mean that it will support Adaptive Sync.

If you already have Nvidia stuff, then G-Sync is a good option. You should not hold off on it just because of A-Sync smoke and mirrors.

 

[3DVagabond]

The limiting component to working A-Sync is a compatible monitor. AMD recently claimed 6-12 months, but I'm skeptical since they've released no information about hardware partnerships and no products are announced. Lots of things can happen to development estimates, nearly all of them bad. Given the utter lack of any information at all, and AMD's misrepresentation of pretty much everything FreeSync/A-Sync related, I am deeply, deeply skeptical.

G-Sync so far is just the DIY kit. The ASUS RoG Swift is set to be released somewhat soon. The last official word from ASUS was for a June release, but they recently announced an announcement at Computex which is in a few weeks. It's still possible it will hit in June, but it's entirely possible for a delay of some kind.

The DIY kits were never meant for mass implementation, they were there for the bleeding edge enthusiasts who were willing to do major surgery on their monitors.

There are a LOT of people waiting on the Swift. Expect demand to be higher than availability when it does show up.


To be very, very clear:

Just because a monitor is DP 1.2a DOES NOT mean that it will support Adaptive Sync.

If you already have Nvidia stuff, then G-Sync is a good option. You should not hold off on it just because of A-Sync smoke and mirrors.

At this point in time he has no option but to hold off. Can't buy A-sync, but can't buy G-sync either.

 

[dacostafilipe]

G-Sync monitors should be available in 1-2 month (so hopes hardware.fr). Just wait and see if the price suits your budget. That would be the best solution for you at the moment because with the power you have, it makes no sense to change your GPU's at the moment. A-Sync is still in his early stage and it will need more time to be implemented in screens. G-Sync is for now your only options.

On the other hand, I would not invest in a non-4K screen at the moment, and by the time 4K are around my budget (400-500€) A-Sync should be available for testing.

 

[sontin]

Right now it is uncertain if nVidia cards support the hardware features for Adaptive-Sync. So G-Sync is the only way to go.

 

[BrightCandle]

Aoc has a gsync monitor for sale in some regions a but not all. I expect they will start appearing in the next month or two, especially since the Asus rog monitor is looking at July according to their forums.

 

[Dribble]

GSync has the advantage of being real - people actually own monitors today where this works. Freesync is just marketing blah backed up by one demo of a fixed frame rate video (not a game). All this new support gives is the same power saving support already available in plenty of laptops in some desktop monitors - not a Gysnc alternative.

 

[Mand]

At this point in time he has no option but to hold off. Can't buy A-sync, but can't buy G-sync either.

That's a rather gross misrepresentation. The Swift is a real product, with a real launch window, that could be here in a month or two. To call it on par with A-Sync is utterly laughable.

G-Sync exists and is in real products, both currently existing on people's desks and in a number of upcoming products. A-Sync is a Word document. There's a real, valid distinction there, and it is not acceptable to spread misinformation by calling them equivalent.

 

[RaulF]

That's a rather gross misrepresentation. The Swift is a real product, with a real launch window, that could be here in a month or two. To call it on par with A-Sync is utterly laughable.

G-Sync exists and is in real products, both currently existing on people's desks and in a number of upcoming products. A-Sync is a Word document. There's a real, valid distinction there, and it is not acceptable to spread misinformation by calling them equivalent.

How so?

He stated a fact. He never called it the same, just that he has no other option. And the Asus monitor real launch window changes like the wind.

 

[Madpacket]

I'm not buying an already crappy TN panel with a 200+ dollar premium for Gsync, it's not worth it. I tried replacing my FW900 and bought then quickly returned two different ASUS VG248QE as they're essentially defective and unusable for anything but gaming, unless you're the masochistic type. There's only so much room on one's computer desk and needing one monitor for gaming and another for everything else is not really a good compromise in 2014.

Perhaps the EIZO Foris FG2421 (VA panel, PWM and 120Hz) could be outfitted with Gysnc?

Hmm...

 

[Mand]

How so?

He stated a fact. He never called it the same, just that he has no other option. And the Asus monitor real launch window changes like the wind.

Because pointing to the fact that as of today, May 19 you can't buy either while ignoring the other fact that G-Sync products are quite imminent and A-Sync hasn't even gotten any announced hardware partners is misrepresentative of the situation.

There is no equivalency, and any attempt to create the impression of equivalency is deceptive and dishonest.

 

[Mand]

I'm not buying an already crappy TN panel with a 200+ dollar premium for Gsync, it's not worth it. I tried replacing my FW900 and bought then quickly returned two different ASUS VG248QE as they're essentially defective and unusable for anything but gaming, unless you're the masochistic type. There's only so much room on one's computer desk and needing one monitor for gaming and another for everything else is not really a good compromise in 2014.

Perhaps the EIZO Foris FG2421 (VA panel, PWM and 120Hz) could be outfitted with Gysnc?

Hmm...

The panel on the Swift is not a crappy TN panel. It's the best TN panel that has been made. True 8-bit color, instead of the typical 6-bit with dithering, for one example. This is not a typical TN panel, so typical TN measures of performance are not predictive of how it will perform. Asus has said they have put a lot of work into addressing the common complaints of TN.

But you basically need TN, or something of equivalent speed, in order to make variable refresh work. Asus specifically said that speed is why they chose not to go with IPS - a technology that's hardly unfamiliar to them. IPS simply does not update quickly enough, it has too much persistence and so under variable refresh conditions the panel itself caused performance below what they were comfortable with. Just being at 120 Hz is not sufficient, either. It's how it updates that makes the difference.

Also, what's up with people using such extreme language on monitor preferences? TN, IPS, they're both capable technologies with different strengths and weaknesses. One may suit your preferences, but that does not mean that it's the best ever and everything else is awful. Other people have different preferences, other tasks have different parameters for which another technology might be superior.

Variable refresh is, first and foremost, a gaming technology. Games are pretty much the only thing that ends up having fluctuating frame times on a frame-by-frame basis. Why shouldn't it end up in gaming-oriented monitors first?

 

[Madpacket]

The biggest issue with TN panels isn't necessarily the colour reproduction, it is vertical viewing angle/ colour shifting. On 24" or below this can be mitigated somewhat by proper height adjustments but on 27+" monitors this shifting becomes unavoidable. If ASUS has magically figured out a way to fix the vertical viewing angles on the Swift I'll buy one immediately.

 

[Grooveriding]

The marketing claims about the Asus swift TN panel being 'special' are just that; marketing. Trumpeting them as some sort of fact without having used one or a reviewer having given their opinion is nonsensical. There is a just a marketing blurb from Asus claiming it's teh special sauce It's TN, it's crap.

If you don't like TN, you're never going to like any TN screen, regardless of the marketing. TN is TN is TN, there will be no escaping all the flaws that come with a TN screen because it's.... TN.

I think A-sync is the future because it will come rolled into all new monitors supporting DP 1.2a and will due to that come on good quality monitors, rather than what appears to be a really slow-drip of g-sync supported monitors.

There are no g-sync monitors for sale anywhere. Just a kit that you can buy yourself or that comes pre-installed that only supports one specific monitor brand and model. That is g-sync's main issue, they have to tune the module on a specific monitor by monitor basis. Why there is still nothing available but that kit and why you'll likely be waiting till the cows come home to get a decent non-TN monitor that supports it.

I'd expect Adaptive-Sync DP 1.2a IPS monitors long before g-sync even gets a chance to get off the ground in one.

 

[BrightCandle]

There are no g-sync monitors for sale anywhere. ...

Sure there are, here is a site in the UK with them in stock and selling:
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/3xs-...or-1920x1080-800000001-350cd-m-1ms-vesa-dport


Gsync monitors have been on sale since January time. There have been some supply issues here and there (due to demand!) but its been possible to buy them easily enough for months. Gsync is on sale and has been for a while. Its also a technology that works very well. Admittedly most people are waiting on the 1440p Asus ROG monitor but 1080p monitors are available and have been for most of this year.

 

[Mand]

The marketing claims about the Asus swift TN panel being 'special' are just that; marketing. Trumpeting them as some sort of fact without having used one or a reviewer having given their opinion is nonsensical. There is a just a marketing blurb from Asus claiming it's teh special sauce It's TN, it's crap.

If you don't like TN, you're never going to like any TN screen, regardless of the marketing. TN is TN is TN, there will be no escaping all the flaws that come with a TN screen because it's.... TN.

I think A-sync is the future because it will come rolled into all new monitors supporting DP 1.2a and will due to that come on good quality monitors, rather than what appears to be a really slow-drip of g-sync supported monitors.

There are no g-sync monitors for sale anywhere. Just a kit that you can buy yourself or that comes pre-installed that only supports one specific monitor brand and model. That is g-sync's main issue, they have to tune the module on a specific monitor by monitor basis. Why there is still nothing available but that kit and why you'll likely be waiting till the cows come home to get a decent non-TN monitor that supports it.

I'd expect Adaptive-Sync DP 1.2a IPS monitors long before g-sync even gets a chance to get off the ground in one.

I'm not sure how you can call a true 8-bit panel when other TN is 6-bith dithered "just marketing."

TN is not "just crap." It's worse than IPS in a few specific areas - IPS is worse in a few other specific areas. If all you care about are the areas where IPS is better, then by all means never buy TN again. But that does not mean that you get to proclaim TN is "just crap" as if that were an absolute.

You will not get variable refresh IPS anytime soon. It doesn't matter if it's G-Sync or A-Sync, IPS just doesn't have the temporal performance required for variable refresh. Your color accuracy won't be worth a damn if it's showing you two different pixels at the same time.

And to say "there are no G-Sync monitors for sale anywhere" is not true. Be a fan of AMD all you want, but there's no need to rain on the G-Sync parade by lying.

And for what should be the last time but undoubtedly won't be:

A-Sync WILL NOT be "rolled into" all DP 1.2a-compatible monitors. It will take a specific development effort in order to implement it, and there's no reason whatsoever to believe doing that will be any easier than implementing G-Sync. You do not get it for free, it is not a trivial upgrade, it IS NOT as simple as a spec update. You want a full explanation of why, read this thread:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2382628

Seems rather pointless to run around the same circle in yet another one.

 

[Despoiler]

I'm not buying an already crappy TN panel with a 200+ dollar premium for Gsync, it's not worth it. I tried replacing my FW900 and bought then quickly returned two different ASUS VG248QE as they're essentially defective and unusable for anything but gaming, unless you're the masochistic type. There's only so much room on one's computer desk and needing one monitor for gaming and another for everything else is not really a good compromise in 2014.

Perhaps the EIZO Foris FG2421 (VA panel, PWM and 120Hz) could be outfitted with Gysnc?

Hmm...

That would be pointless because its main selling point is its turbo mode. You can't use G-Sync and use a strobe backlight mode at the same time.

 

[BrightCandle]

One thing people rarely mention about IPS v TN is about image quality when the image is changing every frame - like in a game. Everyone measures panel accuracy on still images but games don't sit still, that is what image and video editors look at - still images. IPS is fantastic colour quality for still images. In motion however it blurs multiple frames into each other, it has significant motion blur. The impact is very noticable when you put the two monitors next to each other, the IPS is better on a still image, the colours are more natural, the TN is better in motion because its clear and lacks the blur of the IPS. This is the classic trade off and its the reason why IPS monitors are considered professional user monitors. I have about one of the best IPS monitors for blur and lag you can buy and its still rubbish compared to a Benq XL2411T which cost half what the IPS did.

Gsync/Async is targeted at gamers. Not surprisingly initial monitors will be TN because that produces the best result based on how the technology works and what gamers are wanting (clarity in motion). They will almost certainly add IPS in the future, because there are a lot of gamers that like IPS colour quality and don't mind the blur, but they are by and large a minority of buyers. I think actually everyone is itching for >1080p more than they are IPS, its the higher density of screen we want along with gsync and the low motion blur.

 

[Hitman928]

Sure there are, here is a site in the UK with them in stock and selling:
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/3xs-...or-1920x1080-800000001-350cd-m-1ms-vesa-dport


Gsync monitors have been on sale since January time. There have been some supply issues here and there (due to demand!) but its been possible to buy them easily enough for months. Gsync is on sale and has been for a while. Its also a technology that works very well. Admittedly most people are waiting on the 1440p Asus ROG monitor but 1080p monitors are available and have been for most of this year.

Can you show me any where in the states to buy one? Serious question, I looked and couldn't find a single one on sale anywhere, not even a kit. Not sure how high the demand is as we have zero information on supply or demand and only one monitor Gsync works with right now that I can tell. P.s. your link shows 3 user reviews. I know user review does not equal units sold by any means, but if it's really been on sale in numerous supply for five months, you'd think it'd have a few more than 3 people giving feed back.

I have a lot of doubt that Gsync is in such excessive demand (could be wrong) simply because for the one monitor that has Gsync compatibility, adding Gsync doubles the price of the monitor, I just don't see the market for that being large right now considering it is a 1080p monitor and many higher quality monitors in the same price bracket. Once some higher end monitors come out, I could see more people jumping on them because then you're only adding ~30% additional cost to add Gsync rather than doubling the price. You're always going to have some initial takers to be on the bleeding edge, but they're not in high numbers.

 

[Hitman928]

One thing people rarely mention about IPS v TN is about image quality when the image is changing every frame - like in a game. Everyone measures panel accuracy on still images but games don't sit still, that is what image and video editors look at - still images. IPS is fantastic colour quality for still images. In motion however it blurs multiple frames into each other, it has significant motion blur. The impact is very noticable when you put the two monitors next to each other, the IPS is better on a still image, the colours are more natural, the TN is better in motion because its clear and lacks the blur of the IPS. This is the classic trade off and its the reason why IPS monitors are considered professional user monitors. I have about one of the best IPS monitors for blur and lag you can buy and its still rubbish compared to a Benq XL2411T which cost half what the IPS did.

My work monitors are IPS now and I absolutely love them. They are so much nicer to look at and I feel a lot easier on the eyes than my home TN panel. I don't do any video/motion rendering so I don't know how they'd perform. I think I'll have to bring in a laptop or something to work now and see how they do with some gaming. I usually hate motion blur in games, so if it looks like that in any way, I'll be keeping TN for my home monitors.

 

[Stuka87]

And for what should be the last time but undoubtedly won't be:

A-Sync WILL NOT be "rolled into" all DP 1.2a-compatible monitors. It will take a specific development effort in order to implement it, and there's no reason whatsoever to believe doing that will be any easier than implementing G-Sync. You do not get it for free, it is not a trivial upgrade, it IS NOT as simple as a spec update. You want a full explanation of why, read this thread:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2382628

Seems rather pointless to run around the same circle in yet another one.

You sure are stating a lot of things as fact when you have no actual knowledge of whats going on. Unless you happen to work for one of the mentioned companies or are involved with standards ratification. If anybody is misleading, its you. By using things like "IS NOT" and "WILL NOT" in place of "should not".

 

[BrightCandle]

You sure are stating a lot of things as fact when you have no actual knowledge of whats going on. Unless you happen to work for one of the mentioned companies or are involved with standards ratification. If anybody is misleading, its you. By using things like "IS NOT" and "WILL NOT" in place of "should not".

Well actually if you read the thread you'll find that AMD and vesa has confirmed that its optional and that it will require hardware in the monitor. So actually he is completely right.