Question for web developers/programmers

[darkxshade]

I'm no CS student nor do I ever plan to go back to school to obtain said degree, I've already graduated with a business degree. What I can tell you is that I know how to 100% use html and css which is nothing big. Over the last month, I learned how to use flash(minus the hardcore actionscripting stuff which I'm currently attempting to get a grasp of). And as a matter of fact, I took a class on Java during my freshman year(6 years ago) so I do have a general idea of how the language works(but far from being able to actually write programs). For someone such as I who currently have little to no skill/ability whatsoever about programming, will it be difficult for me if I were to say attempt to learn how to develop web pages on my own with no schooling with stuff like javascript, php and other programming languages? Will it be difficult? How much time and dedication would I have to put into this to actually be able to pull off such an endeavor?


If you're wondering why, I've always been fascinated for a lack of a better word with the Internet and always curious to know how it works ever since I went online for the first time. This may sound strange but I'm doing this as a sort of "hobby" and hoping to create a website(the content is irrelevant) just so I have one to call my own while also making it look like it was professionally done. While my true interests when it comes to making a living is in the business/finance field, I do want to learn in my spare time about web development but at the same time not go so far as to go back to school just to appease my curiousity.


And finally, if you believe I can do this, please give me an idea of what I'm getting myself into. What I can tell you currently is that I'm still in the middle of learning flash and when I'm done with that I'll probably go onto learning how to use dreamweaver, then javascript, php, and so on. Any suggestions as to where I should proceed from as well as a list in order of importance of what languages I should learn first or last would be greatly appreciated. If there's also anything important I need to know before I continue with this madness, that would help too. Thanks in advance


Cliffs:
1. I'm a businessman but a web developer wannabe.
2. I know nothing about creating web pages and knowing this, I die a little inside.
3. Embarking on a journey to correct this problem alone(no school), madness is obtained.
4. Calling for backup, S.O.S, need advice on how to approach this.
5. Hopefully in the end I will become a businessman/web developer.

 

[imported_LoKe]

I've picked up HTML quite easily, moved onto XHTML. Now I'm getting into PHP and MySQL use, it's a little complicated at times, but there's no better feeling than when you get things working.

It's not too tough, I suggest you get started.

Just look around for some HTML tutorials, tables (avoid them as much as possible, though. Same with frames), learn div's and stuff like that. You'll get the hang of it rather quickly. Experiment with CSS. It's a good idea to get started with that because it's a lot easier(?) to develop to different resolutions and stuff like that.

PHP.net is a good resource for PHP info.

 

[darkxshade]

I'm not just trying to learn html and php. I'm trying to gain knowledge of every facet of web development and that would include a ton of other things that are thrown into the mix. And that's when it gets confusing and overwhelming. I have no idea what I should learn first, where to start or how to proceed. With that in mind, I need a little guidance from my loving and helpful ATOT family. :beer:

C'mon I know there are some techies out there who can point me in the right direction.

 

[bryantp]

Not sure this is the right forum for this post but I will reply.

What do you want to accomplish?
Do you only want to edit front end?
Do you want to edit front and back end?
Graphics?

Goals?
Start your own business?
Offer your services to NFP organizations and groups?

A great place to start is W3Schools
They simply have tutorials on everything.

As for where to start/begin.

Many here will probably argue for their favorite Language to code in. Personally I do everything as CSS and enjoy XML. Some would argue PHP is better, others ASP, and so on.

Given that, I would certainly say HTML is a must for the basics. CSS teaches standards. PHP leans more towards C and Perl.

Personally, if you just want a "clean" profesional site that is about family/friends/blog then CSS or HTML would suit fine.

Another way to learn is to examine other peoples work of sites you like. Not BORROW OR USE IT but simply examine. View the MARKUP then see what makes what work. Email them and ask a question. Most will give a moment to explain how or why?

 

[mugs]

If you did well with Java, PHP should be easy. You might call understanding programming a boolean variable (that would make you a loser however). Some people are able to wrap their heads around how to solve a problem with code, some people can't. There are of course people who are better at it than others, but web development is relatively simple as far as programming goes.

 

[milehigh]

This may sound strange but I'm doing this as a sort of "hobby" and hoping to create a website(the content is irrelevant) just so I have one to call my own while also making it look like it was professionally done.

The content is relevant. You will learn most by doing and not reading. To sit in the aisle of Barnes and Noble with a 1124 page Javascript or HTML book will be enough to drive you crazy.

Pick a project that interests you and get started. One of my first was a football pool. I wanted everybody to be able to submit thier weekly picks online and I wanted the be able to keep the season scores updated. So from that project I learned..
HTML, HTML Forms, form to email, (later form to database as I learned what .asp was), HTML tables for the scores...etc...all while trying to make it look 'cool'. I learned how to host the site, how to set up an FTP client etc..

What kind of business are you in? You can probably come up with a good side project that relates to your industry.

Good luck and have fun.

 

[Zugzwang152]

Originally posted by: darkxshade
I'm not just trying to learn html and php. I'm trying to gain knowledge of every facet of web development and that would include a ton of other things that are thrown into the mix. And that's when it gets confusing and overwhelming. I have no idea what I should learn first, where to start or how to proceed. With that in mind, I need a little guidance from my loving and helpful ATOT family. :beer:

C'mon I know there are some techies out there who can point me in the right direction.

Actually knowing how to make a site is a monster in and of itself. Couple of things you should definitely know:

Standards compliance
Cross-browser compatibility
Be familiar with Javascript
At least 1 server side scripting language, preferably 2+ (1 commercial language such as JSP/ASP/ASPX, and perhaps an open source free language like PHP).
Know how web servers work, and know the basics of installing and configuring the major ones (IIS and Apache) on all the major platforms (Windows, Mac OS Server, Linux).
Know the basics of how TCP/IP and DNS work.
Know how to manage domain names via your registrar of choice.
Know how to manage a hosted website using the most popular interfaces, such as CPanel and WHM.

 

[darkxshade]

Originally posted by: milehigh

This may sound strange but I'm doing this as a sort of "hobby" and hoping to create a website(the content is irrelevant) just so I have one to call my own while also making it look like it was professionally done.

The content is relevant. You will learn most by doing and not reading. To sit in the aisle of Barnes and Noble with a 1124 page Javascript or HTML book will be enough to drive you crazy.

Pick a project that interests you and get started. One of my first was a football pool. I wanted everybody to be able to submit thier weekly picks online and I wanted the be able to keep the season scores updated. So from that project I learned..
HTML, HTML Forms, form to email, (later form to database as I learned what .asp was), HTML tables for the scores...etc...all while trying to make it look 'cool'. I learned how to host the site, how to set up an FTP client etc..

What kind of business are you in? You can probably come up with a good side project that relates to your industry.

Good luck and have fun.

What I have in mind so far is sort of a hybrid resume/portfolio all rolled up into a flash interface but that in itself only requires me to embed flash swfs which I'm getting a lot of practice on by just playing around, making sigs and stuff. This however doesn't at all require any bit of coding with html or other scripting languages for that matter. So once I feel content and satisfied with my progress with flash I'll be going onto other things and will then need to prob think of something bigger to design for content on a website.

What I need to know is specifically how to go about it trying to learn about web development. There's a lot on my llist of things to learn about. I'm just totally lost now because I don't know whether I should go into javascript first or php, etc. So if you can give me an ordered list that I can follow that would prob help a lot. Until then, I'll be training in the following in that order:

0. (x)HTML, CSS, Photoshop (Already know)
1. Flash (Actionscripting excluded, I'd say I'm just about done learning the interface)
2. Actionscript (Should naturally follow Flash)
-- I started with flash first because unlike the other stuff, this could actually help me @ work. Flash presentations > power point
3. Dreamweaver (Good time to start since I know the above stuff)
4. PHP (server-side scripting)
5. Javascript (client-side and after php because I already know a bit about it)
6. Fireworks (web graphics, should have a site by the time I get here so need eye candy)
7. XML, ASP, SQL (A few things: Don't know much about this stuff, don't have much use for it, and not really that important considering I'm just doing this as hobby)
8. Others (Please let me know if I'm missing something critical)


btw... how long do you estimate it would take for me to actually pull this off assuming I put in about 4 hours a day into this? I learned flash minus actionscripting in 3 days but have been practicing on it for about 2 weeks.

 

[Markbnj]

Just do it. There's nothing to it that you won't get if you have the desire. Programming is a creative art, first and foremost. Enjoy it like you would music, or sculpture, or pottery, and take it as far as your desire and aptitude allows.

 

[rh71]

Hold off on Flash... it will hinder your HTML learning experience because they've made it easy for you to embed swfs. Besides, you want to "hand-code" every facet of your webpage. If your primary goal is to really understand web dev, then I don't think you need to make something so perfect on your first try. Forget the fancy Fireworks and Flash and just see how your code works on the page.

I got my start 10+ years ago with geocities... they let you create stuff with their editor and you could see the results as well as the code... learn by doing... tweaking the code and seeing the results. Use Dreamweaver's split-code view. After you've got HTML & CSS under your belt (javascript isn't too important since there are so many sample scripts on the web), you can move onto dynamic languages like PHP... if you want to run interactive sites, you'll need PHP, but you can't do it well without HTML experience. Everyone needs a solid background in that first.. you shouldn't just jump into PHP (+ SQL), Flash, etc. and hope to comprehend it all in one shot from the start. That's only the coding part.

Web dev includes deploying apps and understanding webservers as well... but at least that's not as tough to pick up. It helps if you've got something going from home to play around with. IIS on your windows machine is a good start for free (watch those security holes though).

 

[darkxshade]

html and css is not a problem, unlike flash and the other things that I'm getting into now, I acquired html years ago back when I was in high school, I've done 3 amateurish pages on sites like geocities. I'm pretty sure I could handcode pure html pages no problem. I'm learning flash first because it would actually compliment my presentation arsenal at work. It was while I was learning flash the past couple weeks that sparked my interest in web development. From here on out is what I need guidance on basically.

 

[bryantp]

Originally posted by: darkxshade
html and css is not a problem, unlike flash and the other things that I'm getting into now, I acquired html years ago back when I was in high school, I've done 3 amateurish pages on sites like geocities. I'm pretty sure I could handcode pure html pages no problem. I'm learning flash first because it would actually compliment my presentation arsenal at work. It was while I was learning flash the past couple weeks that sparked my interest in web development. From here on out is what I need guidance on basically.

When were you last in high school?

And what type of qaulity do you want?

If you want people to see your site as profesional (resume/portfolio) then the time and develoment needed is lengthy and ONGONG

One example might be here or here
or here

The process is evergrowing.

I applaud you for wanting to pursue so many things. However, everyone who has posted this already is correct. STANDARDS are the key - and Dreamweaver (similiar to Frontpage) doesn't teach this.