Question for UHC supporters

[Slew Foot]

You should spend a week at a a VA before you start wishing government health care on everyone.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
You should spend a week at a a VA before you start wishing government health care on everyone.

You should get cancer without any insurance before you start complaining about government health care for everyone.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Fern
So, other countries have lower health costs. They have 'UHC' so some here seem to think that by us slapping the 'UHC' label on our system we'll magically get those lower costs.

Ain't gonna work folks. Unless and until our systems are exactly like their's, and our population's health is exactly like their's, we're gonna be more expensive.

I lived under UHC in Eurpean countires, their doctors made less. The US pharmacy companies sold them drugs cheaper than us (we're subsidizing the globe as it is now) Their system is not battered by trial lawyers etc. Their people were not as obese and ate far better than what I see over here in the USA. They don't have large numbers of illegal immigrants using their health care resources. All these little different things add up.

You can slap the UHC label all over our system to your little heart's content, but you can't duplicate what they have.

The UHC label itself is bogus here, what it really is UHI (Universl Health Insurance).

Yeah right, under UHC we're gonna get MORE medical benefits for LESS money. If it sounds too good to be true....

Fern

I'm sorry Fern, but you can't possibly be arguing against UHC based on what you mentioned in your post.
-snip-

I'm not arguing against UHC (UHI), I'm arguing the use of other countries' cost figures is absurd.

Our version of UHC is not their version, thus the comparison is invalid.

I doubt anybody knows what our UHI (it ain't UHC from what I've seen so far) is gonna be, although that hasn't stopped many from touting it's benefits, but when you find out and show me another country with the same system then we can talk about comparisons.

Fern

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Carmen813

Originally posted by: JohnnyGage
What does the socialist Kool-Aid taste like? Cherry with hint of totalitarianism.

BTW, what does govt. do better than the free market? Oh yeah--nothing.

Fight wars. /thread

No, it doesn't even do that "better". Mercs fight "better" as they are mission oriented and don't get paid until the job is done. That is no disrespect to our military personnel at all but with the bureaucratic beast that is the defense dept - it's amazing our soldiers do as well as they do - which I attribute to their drive and heart.
Mercs may not have the "heart" like a soldier but they also aren't constrained as much either. They can go in, get the job done(win), and get out.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
You should spend a week at a a VA before you start wishing government health care on everyone.

You should get cancer without any insurance before you start complaining about government health care for everyone.

:roll: It's not the federal gov'ts job to provide you with insurance. In fact, it's not even close to being Constitutional...but then again, a lot of what they spend doesn't fit with the Constitution.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
You should spend a week at a a VA before you start wishing government health care on everyone.

You should get cancer without any insurance before you start complaining about government health care for everyone.

Hey, I've done both! I'm wishing government health care on us all, as the care I got was top notch.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: eskimospy

I'm sorry Fern, but you can't possibly be arguing against UHC based on what you mentioned in your post.
-snip-

I'm not arguing against UHC (UHI), I'm arguing the use of other countries' cost figures is absurd.

Our version of UHC is not their version, thus the comparison is invalid.

I doubt anybody knows what our UHI (it ain't UHC from what I've seen so far) is gonna be, although that hasn't stopped many from touting it's benefits, but when you find out and show me another country with the same system then we can talk about comparisons.

Fern

And what I'm saying is that the issues you brought up were either inconsequential in their scope or contradicted in their reality.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
You should spend a week at a a VA before you start wishing government health care on everyone.

You should get cancer without any insurance before you start complaining about government health care for everyone.

Hey, I've done both! I'm wishing government health care on us all, as the care I got was top notch.

It's true. The doctors won't magically give us "less than optimal" care because the government is paying.

I wish this on us as well.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
You should spend a week at a a VA before you start wishing government health care on everyone.

You should get cancer without any insurance before you start complaining about government health care for everyone.

Hey, I've done both! I'm wishing government health care on us all, as the care I got was top notch.

Well, I'm not a vet so I can't speak about the VA but it's got to be better then nothing.

I'll get back to you about the cancer treatment, heh, if I survive it.

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
You should spend a week at a a VA before you start wishing government health care on everyone.

You should get cancer without any insurance before you start complaining about government health care for everyone.

Hey, I've done both! I'm wishing government health care on us all, as the care I got was top notch.

Heh, I have a few veteran relatives with chronic health problems. If they need to use healthcare services, they schedule an appointment at the VA. Sure, they may have to wait around a bit when they get to the office, but they never have to worry about the care they receive - or if they can afford it. I would jump at the chance to have that kind of care available to me....

 

[Modelworks]

They need to go after the SOB that are over charging just because they can. I got an emergency room bill and part of it was $107 for a bag of iv saline. Damn salt water prices are more than oil.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
You should spend a week at a a VA before you start wishing government health care on everyone.

You should get cancer without any insurance before you start complaining about government health care for everyone.

Hey, I've done both! I'm wishing government health care on us all, as the care I got was top notch.

Well, I'm not a vet so I can't speak about the VA but it's got to be better then nothing.

I'll get back to you about the cancer treatment, heh, if I survive it.

Best of luck on all that. I was lucky that mine was a very treatable form of cancer and one that hadn't spread. I was declared cancer free back in March, but I have to get CT scans every 3 months for the forseeable future to make sure it hasn't returned.

It's tough, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Seriously, best wishes.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Cellulose
Somewhat off-topic, but as a Diabetic type 1 what sort of insurance prices would I be looking at in the US?

If you're talking about a private plan you probably can't get any insurance at all. If you can, it will probably cost you several thousand dollars a month.

But on the upside, the health care you won't be getting is #1 in the world.

Or join a group plan at your job and pay about ~$100/mo

Where the hell can you get insurance for $100/mo that is worth anything in this country? I work for a Fortune 100 company with more than 100k employees and I am paying more than that per week and the out of pocket costs went up again this year. Higher deductibles and less coverage for the loss.

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Xman: having lived in several countries with universal health care, I can assure you that you WILL experience long waits on anything but the most urgent of care, and you WILL end up paying more for it, and you WILL get lesser service from doctors since they will have less insentive to provide good service to their customers. I've experienced it.

No matter how you turn it, your costs will go up, and your level of service will go down, and you're going to see a whole new level of government bureacracy to run it all. That much is a given. The only people for whom this is going to be a good thing, is those who currently can not get health care. From their perspective, any lousy healthcare system is better than no healtcare. For the rest of the country, it's going to be a step backwards.

brilliant post.

My kids have the medical card. it's fvcked. I cannot tell you how fvcked it is. Any way you rationalize UHC Poker Guy is speaking the truth and you will also get fvcked.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
You should spend a week at a a VA before you start wishing government health care on everyone.

You should get cancer without any insurance before you start complaining about government health care for everyone.

Hey, I've done both! I'm wishing government health care on us all, as the care I got was top notch.

Well, I'm not a vet so I can't speak about the VA but it's got to be better then nothing.

I'll get back to you about the cancer treatment, heh, if I survive it.

Best of luck on all that. I was lucky that mine was a very treatable form of cancer and one that hadn't spread. I was declared cancer free back in March, but I have to get CT scans every 3 months for the forseeable future to make sure it hasn't returned.

It's tough, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Seriously, best wishes.

Thanks, I appreciate that.

I have a big tumor on the right kidney and a couple of spots on my lower left lung. Tomorrow I get a biopsey on the lung and then they will decide whether to cherry pluck the two lung tumors when they take the right kidney or use chemo and try to dissolve them.

I quit smoking April 1st..... I guess the April Fool's joke was on me. :laugh:

 

[jpeyton]

The only roadblock to UHC is the Republican party and their followers.

If the Democrats can push through UHC during Obama's 8 year in office, the GOP will gain permanent minority status for the next quarter-century. They admitted as much themselves when the Clinton administration explored UHC.

 

[Xellos2099]

IF UHC is so great, how come there is a serious shortage of doctors over at France? Also, why ARE the illegal getting free medical treatment. I swear that illegal are treated better by the government than legal immigrant or citizen. A government exist serves its people, not foreign illegal.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
Also, why ARE the illegal getting free medical treatment.

Ask the doctors and nurses who treat them.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
IF UHC is so great, how come there is a serious shortage of doctors over at France

Tell me this isn't a serious question. There are dozens of countries with UHC, not all implementations are equal. If you can find a problem that affects all or most UHC countries then you might be onto something.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
IF UHC is so great, how come there is a serious shortage of doctors over at France

Tell me this isn't a serious question. There are dozens of countries with UHC, not all implementations are equal. If you can find a problem that affects all or most UHC countries then you might be onto something.

Are all or most countries offering UHC actually able to pay for it - that is, not float annual budget deficits, merely pushing costs off to future generations?

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: XMan
The systems as used in Canada, Britain, etc., eventually require rationing of care. Whether it be a 12+ month wait for knee surgery, or a waiting list for the removal of a tumor, turnaround is not nearly as quick as what is currently available to Americans today. There are enough published examples of those sort of things to eliminate any debate otherwise.

I'm sure you can find isolated examples of shocking levels of care everywhere in the world, including European countries, and including the United States. The fact remains that in the vast VAST majority of cases one does NOT wait for something serious like the removal of a tumor in the UK. My father was diagnosed last year and he was in a scanner within hours, then on an operating table within days - as soon as the tests were complete and the specialists were happy to proceed. There was no waiting list or anything of that sort. Now of course, there is some 'rationing' as you put it, but if someone has to wait a few days to get their ingrown toenail fixed, or even their knee replaced or something like that, so cancer sufferers can get halp NOW, then I'm perfectly happy with that. In the US resources are divided according to ability to pay rather than need - half a dozen doctors might be working on one man's tennis elbow while down the road a child dies because it's parents have no insurance. Surely that's much worse.