Dude! Thank you! I loved this, laughed very hard, watched it four times, and sent it to five friends!
Kudos - VERY well done.
(if you can't laugh at parodies of yourself, you're a dick IMO!)
Dude! Thank you! I loved this, laughed very hard, watched it four times, and sent it to five friends!
Kudos - VERY well done.
(if you can't laugh at parodies of yourself, you're a dick IMO!)
Or better yet pick up a $270 7800GT to tide them over till the 7900GTX arrives to lay waste to all?
"Or better yet pick up a $270 7800GT to tide them over till the 7900GTX arrives to lay waste to all?"
But of course
and then...Xxxxx and Gxx and... it's a never ending cycle the great Frame Game.
But of course
and then...Xxxxx and Gxx and... it's a never ending cycle the great Frame Game. 
akugami
Diamond Member
- Feb 14, 2005
- 6,210
- 2,552
- 136
If it can do that, sign me up for one! Jessica Alba /drool
Seriously, I didn't believe all the rumors about the X1800 and I don't believe all the rumors about the G71. I'll just wait for the facts. At this moment, the X1900 is the fastest card and best bang for the buck on the high end. However, with the G71 out in a mere 5-6 weeks, it makes sense waiting a bit to see how it performs. I'm still of the opinion that the G71 will basically be a slightly better performing version of the 7800 GTX 512MB. Instead of being extremely limited cherry picked cores, it will be the norm.
We can play the speculation game all we want, in the end, most rumors are simply just that, rumors. Let's all wait for the facts before we announce a winner between the G71 and the R580.
Why are NV fans holding on to the 512MB GTX so much? The XTX can be had for $600. How much is the 512MB GTX, $750, $800, $900, or are they even available? The choice is pretty simple to me. And it would be pretty foolish to pay the asking price of the 512MB GTX right now, when the XTX is much cheaper, generally faster, and more advanced (<--- remember NV fans trashing the X800 because it couldnt do SM3?) So a person looking for a high end card, really only has ATi to look at, for now. As the X1900XT is even under $480 now, and trounces the 256MB GTX's.
nitromullet
Diamond Member
- Jan 7, 2004
- 9,031
- 36
- 91
Wow, there sure are a lot of X1800XT owners out there...
As far as answering the original question...
I am not any more annoyed with the X1800XT than I was with two 7800GTX's. Basically, they both dropped about the same much in value over about the same amount of time. The GTX's were selling for over $100 less than MSRP (what I paid) well within 2 months of their launch. The only saving grace for me was that I went with eVGA, which allowed me a step-up to KO's for only the cost of shipping.
The thing is about the X1800XT is that it got a rep as a bad card simply due to the fact that it was late to market. The card itself is extremely fast, has good IQ, and competes very nicely against NV's top cards. I think that most people (myself included) were aware that R580 was going to be coming out sometime in the new year, although I was thinking closer to March than Jan. That being said, I really am not going to be inthe market for another card until I see what G71 does. Honestly, unless some good games come out that actually require a better video card, I'll be pretty content to continue to play WoW at max settings and HL2 Aftermath on my X1800XT until G80 and R600 make their debut.
Someone already mentioned the idea of getting an X1800 Xfire card because of the price drops on the X1800's.... Well, I considered that as well, but the problem appears to be that the Xfire cards are in limited enough quantities that they don't appear to be dropping as much as the regular X1800's - the X1800 Xfire and X1900 Xfire cards were about the same price at Monarch last time I checked. Although, if you already have an Xfire X1800XT and an Xfire capable motherboard, you might just luck out and find a Crossfire X1800 at a decent price, certainly worth keeping a look out.
I have found this:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications...m-details.asp?EdpNo=1723242&CatId=1560
but, I'm confused... is this a 256MB card as listed on that site, or is it a 512MB card as the 100-435716 is listed here:
http://www.ati.com/buy/pricespcusa.html
As far as answering the original question...
I am not any more annoyed with the X1800XT than I was with two 7800GTX's. Basically, they both dropped about the same much in value over about the same amount of time. The GTX's were selling for over $100 less than MSRP (what I paid) well within 2 months of their launch. The only saving grace for me was that I went with eVGA, which allowed me a step-up to KO's for only the cost of shipping.
The thing is about the X1800XT is that it got a rep as a bad card simply due to the fact that it was late to market. The card itself is extremely fast, has good IQ, and competes very nicely against NV's top cards. I think that most people (myself included) were aware that R580 was going to be coming out sometime in the new year, although I was thinking closer to March than Jan. That being said, I really am not going to be inthe market for another card until I see what G71 does. Honestly, unless some good games come out that actually require a better video card, I'll be pretty content to continue to play WoW at max settings and HL2 Aftermath on my X1800XT until G80 and R600 make their debut.
Someone already mentioned the idea of getting an X1800 Xfire card because of the price drops on the X1800's.... Well, I considered that as well, but the problem appears to be that the Xfire cards are in limited enough quantities that they don't appear to be dropping as much as the regular X1800's - the X1800 Xfire and X1900 Xfire cards were about the same price at Monarch last time I checked. Although, if you already have an Xfire X1800XT and an Xfire capable motherboard, you might just luck out and find a Crossfire X1800 at a decent price, certainly worth keeping a look out.
I have found this:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications...m-details.asp?EdpNo=1723242&CatId=1560
but, I'm confused... is this a 256MB card as listed on that site, or is it a 512MB card as the 100-435716 is listed here:
http://www.ati.com/buy/pricespcusa.html
I appreciate all the X1800XT owners feedback.
I've ordered a X1800XL to throw in my five year olds box to check out if angle independent AF and HDR+AA are really "all that".
More to come.
I've ordered a X1800XL to throw in my five year olds box to check out if angle independent AF and HDR+AA are really "all that".
More to come.
your not saving that money for you quad sli?
I would be great when you get it to give us some bench marks.
So I suppose your 5 year old will be with-out his computer while you mess around with it?
and I suppose he'll be the only one in his kindergarten class to give definitions of the various forms of AA, AF, HDR with and with-out AA :laugh:
I hope he's fair and balanced about it
:beer:I'm not any more displeased with my X1800XT than the 7800GTX owners should be. I mean, if a better card comes out, regardless of who makes it and what you have, obviously you will prefer the newer and better card, but no biggie if you can't get it. The X1900 series cards affect me as a X1800XT owner the exact same as everybody else.
If anything, I'm pleased, because prolonged driver attention for the X1900 cards ought to give me some windfall benefit as well. For example, more games may now be developed to offer HDR+AA as an option, or Lionhead may finally release the talked about performance patch for ATI.
If anything, I'm pleased, because prolonged driver attention for the X1900 cards ought to give me some windfall benefit as well. For example, more games may now be developed to offer HDR+AA as an option, or Lionhead may finally release the talked about performance patch for ATI.
I will only monopolize his PC while he is sleeping or away.
This pretty much had to be done.
I can't comment on how big of a difference the ATI AF and the HDR+AF make if I haven't seen them.
Framerate doesn't matter as this is for knowledge, SLI'd 7800GTXs are for gaming.
(not to mention I like to play with video cards and always buy at least one of ATIs cards to see what they're up to)
This pretty much had to be done.
I can't comment on how big of a difference the ATI AF and the HDR+AF make if I haven't seen them.
Framerate doesn't matter as this is for knowledge, SLI'd 7800GTXs are for gaming.
(not to mention I like to play with video cards and always buy at least one of ATIs cards to see what they're up to)
nitromullet
Diamond Member
- Jan 7, 2004
- 9,031
- 36
- 91
Awesome! Some people buy video cards for gaming, some for the video codecs... You buy them for "knowledge". Funny, but I actually understand and relate... My main motivator for purchasing this X1800XT was curiousity. It just so happens that it's a good gaming card too
Originally posted by: nitromullet
Awesome! Some people buy video cards for gaming, some for the video codecs... You buy them for "knowledge". Funny, but I actually understand and relate... My main motivator for purchasing this X1800XT was curiousity. It just so happens that it's a good gaming card too
Heh- by all accounts it's a GREAT gaming card
I'm an owner of an x1800xt (purchased in Dec) and I had heard about the x1900 series, but I didn't think they would be released so soon. So do I regret my purchase? Nope I don't, luckily I play at a low resolution (1680x1050) with eye candy and my games look and run perfect (and thats all I want). So do I care if Ati discontinued the X1800 series? Heh, I could care less!
well...personally, im extremely pissed. i got my xt just before christmas. saved up and paid well over 500 for it. i was sure, going by past releases that the 1900 wouldnt be out and resonably priced for quite a while. isnt this cute... a month later im kicked in the face. to make matters even worse, im less than thrilled with my xt. i now feel bad about my 500 well researched purchase and i cant even sell it to get a x1900, since id be lucky to get 400 for it.
in case your wondering why im not thrilled with performance...im only getting 8500 3dmak05 at stock and 8907 overclocked. not a great score considering the price.
shouldve waited for the x1900. i would have if the x1800 wasnt so slow in coming. what an industry.
in case your wondering why im not thrilled with performance...im only getting 8500 3dmak05 at stock and 8907 overclocked. not a great score considering the price.
shouldve waited for the x1900. i would have if the x1800 wasnt so slow in coming. what an industry.
It's not a bad card though VikingBlade. You're between 256 and 512 GTX performance, which is pretty rare air.
Discontinuing the card and launching the X1900s when they did was most likely judged necessary by ATI.
They probably looked at X1800 numbers, knew the 7900s were coming and had to jump when they did to sell some cards. (my guess only)
5150Joker
Diamond Member
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Fixed those for ya.
You know for a fact G71 will be out in 6 weeks in mass quantity at competitive prices and much faster speed + features? If you do lend me your crystal ball, I need it.
nice postOriginally posted by: keysplayr2003
Fixed those for ya.
MikeC at nvnews made a Comparison Chart between 7800GTX512 and X1900XTX, the chart has 43 red bits and 38 green bits and 2 draws so i can see the GTX512 still competing..main page from the forumOriginally posted by: Alaa
nice post
Of course it's competing in performance. But part of being competitive is having a competitive price and actually having them available for purchase. Would you care to show me a link for a GTX 512 in stock?
Originally posted by: Alaa
nice post
The best of that is the XBit 4X column.
Mainly online gamers are the only ones who will be playing on these cards without AA, for max fps.
Originally posted by: Alaa
nice postOriginally posted by: keysplayr2003
Fixed those for ya.
This article has all the charts you need - including AA, HDR, HDR+AA, SLIAA/SuperAA, and even some nice summary tables of average results in a bunch of categories.
For example, did you know that Nv can actually do HDR with AA in AOE3, because the devs coded supersampling for Nv cards in the game engine? It works, but it kills performance. No other site bothered to mention this.
That's a really handy chart, and something I forgot MikeC does. It could always use some more websites, if the idea is to find a consensus choice, so I tabbed the #s from ComputerBase.de, Digit-Life.com, Hardware.fr, Hexus.net (only at 1920x1200), and ZDNet.de (they had some "obscure" benchmarks).
MikeC's literal interpretation of these new sites yields an XTX record of 40-30-2. Considering every difference under 5% a draw, I came up with a record of 36-19-15 for the XTX: 36 wins, 19 losses to the GTX-512, and 15 "draws" (10 rounded down for NV, 3 for ATI, and 2 literal ties). If I wanted to be really strict and say only 10%+ counts as a win, that's 27-12-32 W-L-"D" for the XTX. Everything under 15% a draw? XTX is 21-10-42. Yep, a whopping 42 "draws."
But I'd be hard-pressed to consider 4% at even 100fps, or 4fps, a noticable win. 4% at 30fps is just 1.2fps, probably equally impossible to notice. Heck, even 10% seems a low bar for a win at either 30 or 100fps, meaning the faster card would be running at a breathtaking 33 or 110fps. Buckle up for whiplash, kids!
You can see a general pattern with the new sites: the higher I raise the bar for a (IMO) clear win, generally the lower a percentage the GTX-512 wins. I didn't intend that to happen, especially with the persistent "fanboy!11" vitriol, but I've mulled 15% as a minimum win differential for quite some time. Yeah, it's one more way of deciding for everyone else, somewhat like a HardOCP or Bit-Tech review (or any review that doesn't painstakingly compare IQ, really), but the raw #s are there if you need 'em. (FYI, that 15% bar is also why I don't really bother with OCing GPUs, as it's the rare card that nets you more than 15% return for your risking the warranty. If IHVs/AIBs tried to separate their cards by 15% performance--be it with clocks or pipes--it'd sure as heck make our lives easier when it comes time to buying new cards.)
Combining my tally (XTX is 40-30-2) with MikeC's (XTX is 43-38-2):
w/ literal draws: XTX is 83-68-4 (W-L-D), or wins 55% of the time. (Seems a bit low, no? I'm dividing W/L, just like I did to compare framerates.)
w/ <5% "draws": XTX 72-53-30 (w-L-"D"), or 58%. (This actually helps the GTX-512, as the XTX drops more "wins.")
w/ <10%: XTX 54-46-62, or 58%. (XTX loses 8 more, GTX-512 loses 7.)
w/ <15%: XTX 42-36-80, or 56%. (XTX drops another 8, GTX-512 drops 10.)
So, it's still fairly--surprisingly, IMO, considering R580's 48 pipes--close. I don't want to lose focus on price, so keep in mind that there's a >15% price premium for the GTX-512. Speaking of price/performance, I'd like to see a similar chart for the 1900XT and 7800GTX, but I'm not willing to make one (especially so close to the 7900). Even tho the cheapest XT is ~$50 more than the cheapest GTX, you *are* getting an extra 256MB, which might prove useful at >= 16x12 with >= 4xAA and max texture quality.
Boo-yah. Hope this helps. I can post a chart like Mike's, if anyone wants to see the actual bingo table.
MikeC's literal interpretation of these new sites yields an XTX record of 40-30-2. Considering every difference under 5% a draw, I came up with a record of 36-19-15 for the XTX: 36 wins, 19 losses to the GTX-512, and 15 "draws" (10 rounded down for NV, 3 for ATI, and 2 literal ties). If I wanted to be really strict and say only 10%+ counts as a win, that's 27-12-32 W-L-"D" for the XTX. Everything under 15% a draw? XTX is 21-10-42. Yep, a whopping 42 "draws."
But I'd be hard-pressed to consider 4% at even 100fps, or 4fps, a noticable win. 4% at 30fps is just 1.2fps, probably equally impossible to notice. Heck, even 10% seems a low bar for a win at either 30 or 100fps, meaning the faster card would be running at a breathtaking 33 or 110fps. Buckle up for whiplash, kids!
You can see a general pattern with the new sites: the higher I raise the bar for a (IMO) clear win, generally the lower a percentage the GTX-512 wins. I didn't intend that to happen, especially with the persistent "fanboy!11" vitriol, but I've mulled 15% as a minimum win differential for quite some time. Yeah, it's one more way of deciding for everyone else, somewhat like a HardOCP or Bit-Tech review (or any review that doesn't painstakingly compare IQ, really), but the raw #s are there if you need 'em. (FYI, that 15% bar is also why I don't really bother with OCing GPUs, as it's the rare card that nets you more than 15% return for your risking the warranty. If IHVs/AIBs tried to separate their cards by 15% performance--be it with clocks or pipes--it'd sure as heck make our lives easier when it comes time to buying new cards.
)Combining my tally (XTX is 40-30-2) with MikeC's (XTX is 43-38-2):
w/ literal draws: XTX is 83-68-4 (W-L-D), or wins 55% of the time. (Seems a bit low, no? I'm dividing W/L, just like I did to compare framerates.)
w/ <5% "draws": XTX 72-53-30 (w-L-"D"), or 58%. (This actually helps the GTX-512, as the XTX drops more "wins.")
w/ <10%: XTX 54-46-62, or 58%. (XTX loses 8 more, GTX-512 loses 7.)
w/ <15%: XTX 42-36-80, or 56%. (XTX drops another 8, GTX-512 drops 10.)
So, it's still fairly--surprisingly, IMO, considering R580's 48 pipes--close. I don't want to lose focus on price, so keep in mind that there's a >15% price premium for the GTX-512. Speaking of price/performance, I'd like to see a similar chart for the 1900XT and 7800GTX, but I'm not willing to make one (especially so close to the 7900). Even tho the cheapest XT is ~$50 more than the cheapest GTX, you *are* getting an extra 256MB, which might prove useful at >= 16x12 with >= 4xAA and max texture quality.
Boo-yah. Hope this helps. I can post a chart like Mike's, if anyone wants to see the actual bingo table.
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