Nik
Lifer
- Jun 5, 2006
- 16,101
- 3
- 56
Very good. However, ask the question "why did he create us" and you won't find an answer that doesn't undermine that omnipotency. Most will say "for his glory" but what does he need glory for? God can't 'need' anything.
There are great questions that our feeble little human minds can come up with that defeat the idea of the god described in the judeo christian bible.
BeauJangles
Lifer
- Aug 26, 2001
- 13,941
- 1
- 0
If you bothered to read anything Einstein wrote instead of echoing talking points, you'd realize that his conception of god is nothing like the conception we're talking about here.
IMO, after reading what he's written on the subject, that is probably the best single-sentence summary of his beliefs. He was neither a deist nor an atheist. He wholeheartedly rejected the idea of a god who could / would / did intervene in the lives of people. Basically, his belief of god was like many people -- he used god to fill the gaps in our knowledge, to contextualize his existence, and to address some of the unknowns that existed in the universe.
To use him as proof that atheists are wrong or something like that is utter nonsense.
Blackjack200
Lifer
- May 28, 2007
- 15,995
- 1,688
- 126
So God is invisible, intangible, inaudible, oder free, tasteless, and he is not anything we can logically conceive of?
At what point does it not matter if God exists? Because he seems completely inconsequential.
CoinOperatedBoy
Golden Member
- Dec 11, 2008
- 1,809
- 0
- 76
He doesn't "need" glory, but that is what He wills. It's the only thing of value to Him, anyway, since nothing that is created can be more valuable than the creator. So He values what He Himself does because He is infinitely valuable to Himself. Humans and the universe are part of the story that is, ultimately, about God. Why did He write the story? Because He wanted to. Does that answer all our questions? No. Does God have to answer all our questions? No. Is God accountable to anyone but Himself? No. Does He hold Himself to His own promises which are revealed in His self disclosure that is recorded in the Bible? Yes.
If you are looking for every answer to every question, you'll be a very sad person. You can try, of course, but questions that extend above and before the universe can only be answered by one who is greater than the universe, God. To think that it is even possible to know all things is to put yourself in the position of God. To say that the universe has always existed is to say that the universe is god. To say that all things die, even the universe, is to say that nothing or death is god. No matter what, there is a god, an ultimate force within the universe, but you can see, if you wish, that force as being a ultimately a good being(no possibility of it/him being evil, since the standard of righteousness would necessarily be measured by that being) or you can see it as being an unwielded force (no such thing as randomness/chaos, because even that becomes a united thing when you assign a concept to it).
So you either believe that God exists, or you just refuse to accept that and look for something else to fill that position in your view of everything.
[/quote]Originally posted by: Nik
Translated!
Yeah, because that just added a whole lot to the thread
I think I might just ignore all your posts just on the basis of the disclaimer that was in your signature.
There is no such thing as a "scientific fact" that "proves" something. A scientific fact is a repeatable, objective observation that either supports or disproves a theory/hypothesis.
surfsatwerk
Lifer
- Mar 6, 2008
- 10,110
- 5
- 81
Please leave science alone. We have enough wackjobs poking around and making us look bad by completely misrepresenting what we're about to the knuckle dragging masses.
Atomic Playboy
Lifer
- Feb 6, 2007
- 16,432
- 1
- 81
If God's self-esteem is so low that he exists solely to be glorified by his creations, why bother giving his creations free will? Why make millions upon millions of species which are incapable of the complex rational thought required to glorify a deity? Why continue to put up with a whole bunch of people who don't believe in him when he could appear, say, "Hey, I'm God, look, all I really want is for you to worship me and marvel at my creations, which, by the way, you're one of, and in return you get to spend forever in paradise, dig?," and convince all the skeptics in one fell swoop? Why continue letting bad things happen if his only goal is to be loved and adored? What proof do you have that his intentions are solely to be glorified through his creations? Words written by men a few thousand years ago? Sounds a bit sketchy to me...
What if you're wrong?
SphinxnihpS
Diamond Member
- Feb 17, 2005
- 8,368
- 25
- 91
I would say that most people are not really concerned with god at all. I think people are much more concerned with what comes after they die. It is scary to think that once you die here that you will not continue elsewhere. I think this is why people are so willing to fight over god; because they simply do not wish to even conceptualize a time when they no longer exist. It is far too menacing. If you look at most religions you will see a common thread; do god's will here and you will be rewarded with a pleasant or even blissful afterlife, cross him and the afterlife won't be so pretty- worth fighting for, and ironically dieing for, if you are terrified by the notion of nothingness. If you could get them to answer honestly, this would be the reason people give for "having to" believe in god.
Now I can give you a pretty ironclad reason as to how the afterlife DOES NOT MATTER.
Take someone who has sustained severe head injury which causes them to forget everything that occurred in their life prior, but otherwise leaves them mentally unscathed. To them, since they can not recall one thing about their life prior to the injury, their previous life never happened at all; it is just as if they died and were reborn in a new body, and for all intents and purposed their former self did indeed die.
Since it is our brains, and not some phony notion of a soul, which stores all or memories and experiences, when we die this will rot in the ground taking every experience with it. So what if a "soul" goes on to an "afterlife". Since all our experiences rot away with our dead brain, it would be as if this life never happened at all. There would be no recollection of what happened while we were "alive", so what would it matter to this soul?
That right there is biggest reason I can give you as to the absolute IRRELEVANCE of "god".
I can't prove there is no god, but I can say that even if there is, it does not matter one bit to your life here, so why all the fuss?
CoinOperatedBoy
Golden Member
- Dec 11, 2008
- 1,809
- 0
- 76
Not really.
"I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
"I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals himself in the lawful harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and the doings of mankind."
Yet he also denied atheism, and in fact was critical of overzealous atheists.
"What separates me from most so-called atheists is a feeling of utter humility toward the unattainable secrets of the harmony of the cosmos."
"The fanatical atheists are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who--in their grudge against traditional religion as the 'opium of the masses'-- cannot hear the music of the spheres."
You can also find some interesting commentary on Einstein's spiritual journey and how it was tied to his cosmological constant and the study of relativity.
El Guaraguao
Diamond Member
- May 7, 2008
- 3,468
- 5
- 81
Because I don't have to go to church to give up 10% of my income just so I can be on the VIP list?
"It is easier for a camel to walk through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom"
Does this applies to pastors?
Church. Serious Business.
Well .. Certain proof that god exists that is .. Our planetary motion ..
If a big ball explodes into pieces ... How the hell will the parts starts moving around the remaining mass, instead of falling right on to it .. ??
I just realised that this can happen .. If only the pieces are projected at a angle with the original big ball's normal ... Could any one confirm this for me ..
If a big ball explodes into pieces ... How the hell will the parts starts moving around the remaining mass, instead of falling right on to it .. ??
I just realised that this can happen .. If only the pieces are projected at a angle with the original big ball's normal ... Could any one confirm this for me ..
So you also believe in Zeus, Kali, Buddha and the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
Do you go to a different church or shrine each day of the week to worship them equally?
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,578
- 982
- 126
Why is the burden of proof on us? We aren't the ones claiming to believe in something that cannot be proven.
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