Question for the exercise gurus...particularly weight lifters

[Amused]

Originally posted by: shortspanishguy
saying creatine is garbage is an all around ignorant statement.

Yep.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: brikis98
i never use any synthetic drugs, whether legal (creatine) or not (steroids) - i just don't think it's a good idea for the long term.

Creatine is not a drug. Creatine is an amino acid.

Unlike steroids or drugs, creatine is 100% natural and occurs naturally in many foods; therefore, it can never be banned from any sports or international competitions (unless they banned eating meat). Many foods especially herring, salmon, tuna, and beef contain some creatine.

i stand corrected - i simply meant i try to avoid anything that i don't get directly from food and hence "synthetic" and a drug in the sense that it's in pill or powder form.

OK. My position is, if you're going to take protien supplimets, there is no reason you should be opposed to taking Creatine IF you've hit a wall and need a little help.

Yeah just an FYI creatine naturally occurs in meat only, i'm nearly positive no other food contains it.

 

[bleeb]

You're working out too much....

Try combining weight training to just three days of the week. Then cardio for the days in between.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: brikis98
i never use any synthetic drugs, whether legal (creatine) or not (steroids) - i just don't think it's a good idea for the long term.

Creatine is not a drug. Creatine is an amino acid.

Unlike steroids or drugs, creatine is 100% natural and occurs naturally in many foods; therefore, it can never be banned from any sports or international competitions (unless they banned eating meat). Many foods especially herring, salmon, tuna, and beef contain some creatine.

i stand corrected - i simply meant i try to avoid anything that i don't get directly from food and hence "synthetic" and a drug in the sense that it's in pill or powder form.

OK. My position is, if you're going to take protien supplimets, there is no reason you should be opposed to taking Creatine IF you've hit a wall and need a little help.

i don't take protein supplements either. i really get the feeling that muscle that is built naturally, over time, from a healthy diet is just going to be better for you in the end. i've always believed that the amount of time you take to gain the muscle will reflect on how long it will last. same for weight loss - it seems that if you do a fab diet and drop 10 pounds in a week, you can gain it back just as fast. so i'd rather do the slow & natural method than add something to give me a quick "boost."

however, i have no scientific evidence to back it up, it's just my personal opinion. i guess i just don't like putting anything even remotely "unnatural" (pill/powder form) in my body. of course, w/ all the pesticides, genetic engineering, etc of today's food, it's a bit naive and futile.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: brikis98
i never use any synthetic drugs, whether legal (creatine) or not (steroids) - i just don't think it's a good idea for the long term.

Creatine is not a drug. Creatine is an amino acid.

Unlike steroids or drugs, creatine is 100% natural and occurs naturally in many foods; therefore, it can never be banned from any sports or international competitions (unless they banned eating meat). Many foods especially herring, salmon, tuna, and beef contain some creatine.

i stand corrected - i simply meant i try to avoid anything that i don't get directly from food and hence "synthetic" and a drug in the sense that it's in pill or powder form.

OK. My position is, if you're going to take protien supplimets, there is no reason you should be opposed to taking Creatine IF you've hit a wall and need a little help.

Yeah just an FYI creatine naturally occurs in meat only, i'm nearly positive no other food contains it.

Well, yeah. Amino acids are pretty much a meat only thing.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: bleeb
You're working out too much....

Try combining weight training to just three days of the week. Then cardio for the days in between.

Naw, I've been lifting 4 days a week for years. He's calorie starved. That's all.

Of course, he has only one kidney. IIRC, that does have an effect on stamina.

Have you talked to your DR about working out with one kidney?

 

[imported_ArtVandalay]

You're not eating enough, and you might not be sleeping enough either. Remember in high school (or for some people middle school) when it seemed you couldn't possibly get enough sleep no matter how much you vegged out in bed? It's because your body was growing. Guess what it's doing again?

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: bleeb
You're working out too much....

Try combining weight training to just three days of the week. Then cardio for the days in between.

Naw, I've been lifting 4 days a week for years. He's calorie starved. That's all.

Of course, he has only one kidney. IIRC, that does have an effect on stamina.

Have you talked to your DR about working out with one kidney?

I used to run 5k, 10k, and 20k races without issue. Maybe I'm just getting old.

FWIW, here's kind of an outline for my workouts...

http://mwitsol.com/workout.xls

I won't typically do *every* exercise, but I will do most of them. Also, Wednesday is a rest day (today). That day has been moved to Thursday.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: bleeb
You're working out too much....

Try combining weight training to just three days of the week. Then cardio for the days in between.

Naw, I've been lifting 4 days a week for years. He's calorie starved. That's all.

Of course, he has only one kidney. IIRC, that does have an effect on stamina.

Have you talked to your DR about working out with one kidney?

I used to run 5k, 10k, and 20k races without issue. Maybe I'm just getting old.

FWIW, here's kind of an outline for my workouts...

http://mwitsol.com/workout.xls

I won't typically do *every* exercise, but I will do most of them. Also, Wednesday is a rest day (today). That day has been moved to Thursday.

I'm 38.

At any rate, if your Dr has OKed you with one kidney, you should be fine. I'd say, with very little doubt, that you're calorie starved. Weight lifting and muscle growth takes a LOT of calories.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: Amused
It takes a while to get used to it.

When starting out, go slower. Skip the cardio when you start feeling drained. If you're not making strength/muscle size gains or are losing too much weight too fast, up your calories.

2200 calories a day for your activity level is quite low. I lift 4 days a week and do cardio 3 days a week and my calorie intake is 4-5000 when bulking, and 2500-3000 when cutting.

What would you say is your maintenance level of cals? That seems to be a very large difference between a bulk and a cut. Are your bulks pretty clean (i.e. minimal fat gain?)

The reason I ask is that I am starting my first cut and am not quite sure how much of a caloric deficit to go into. I suspect my maintenance level of cals is ~4000. My plan is to cut my daily total down by 200 each week until I start losing some fat, then hold it there for as long as I can. I want to preserve ideally all of my muscle and am willing to cut slowly if necessary. Right now I am at 4000 and will drop to 3800 tomorrow.

to the OP:

It could be that the morning is just not "your time" to be lifting. I normally work out in the afternoon, but occasionally have to do it early in the morning due to other events that come up. My AM workouts are nearly always worse than my afternoon ones. I may feel alert, but I just can't move as much weight for some reason.

 

[imported_Elias]

Originally posted by: Amused
Creatine is not a drug. Creatine is an amino acid.

Unlike steroids or drugs, creatine is 100% natural and occurs naturally in many foods; therefore, it can never be banned from any sports or international competitions (unless they banned eating meat). Many foods especially herring, salmon, tuna, and beef contain some creatine.

This is incorrect. Creatine is not an amino acid, although it is derived from arginine. Creatine is found in muscle tissue (including the heart) and the brain, but has nothing to do with protein. It functions as a sink for high-energy phosphate groups which are used to regenerate ATP from energy-depleted ADP. This energy is used up during the contraction of your muscle fibers. Since your body has a large amount of creatine already within muscles funtioning as an energy sink, adding more in your diet has a negligible effect unless you really work your muscles to exhaustion. Any other claimed benefit is just "placebo effect".

There's a lot of misinformation out there when it comes to lifting supplements, mostly due to idiotic marketing by supplement companies. I hope this clears up a bit of what creatine does and what taking it will do for you.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: Amused
It takes a while to get used to it.

When starting out, go slower. Skip the cardio when you start feeling drained. If you're not making strength/muscle size gains or are losing too much weight too fast, up your calories.

2200 calories a day for your activity level is quite low. I lift 4 days a week and do cardio 3 days a week and my calorie intake is 4-5000 when bulking, and 2500-3000 when cutting.

What would you say is your maintenance level of cals? That seems to be a very large difference between a bulk and a cut. Are your bulks pretty clean (i.e. minimal fat gain?)

The reason I ask is that I am starting my first cut and am not quite sure how much of a caloric deficit to go into. I suspect my maintenance level of cals is ~4000. My plan is to cut my daily total down by 200 each week until I start losing some fat, then hold it there for as long as I can. I want to preserve ideally all of my muscle and am willing to cut slowly if necessary. Right now I am at 4000 and will drop to 3800 tomorrow.

to the OP:

It could be that the morning is just not "your time" to be lifting. I normally work out in the afternoon, but occasionally have to do it early in the morning due to other events that come up. My AM workouts are nearly always worse than my afternoon ones. I may feel alert, but I just can't move as much weight for some reason.

maintenance? What's that?

Seriously, I like to be accomplishing something. I hate treading water.

My fat gain during bulking is moderate. I don't become a fatass but I do regain a little bit of a spare tire (I'm 38, that's where it goes now) and I smooth over quite a bit.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Elias

Originally posted by: Amused
Creatine is not a drug. Creatine is an amino acid.

Unlike steroids or drugs, creatine is 100% natural and occurs naturally in many foods; therefore, it can never be banned from any sports or international competitions (unless they banned eating meat). Many foods especially herring, salmon, tuna, and beef contain some creatine.

This is incorrect. Creatine is not an amino acid, although it is derived from arginine. Creatine is found in muscle tissue (including the heart) and the brain, but has nothing to do with protein. It functions as a sink for high-energy phosphate groups which are used to regenerate ATP from energy-depleted ADP. This energy is used up during the contraction of your muscle fibers. Since your body has a large amount of creatine already within muscles funtioning as an energy sink, adding more in your diet has a negligible effect unless you really work your muscles to exhaustion. Any other claimed benefit is just "placebo effect".

There's a lot of misinformation out there when it comes to lifting supplements, mostly due to idiotic marketing by supplement companies. I hope this clears up a bit of what creatine does and what taking it will do for you.

Hmmm, everything I have read says it's an amino acid.

At any rate, I work every set to failure. Creatine has a very noticeable effect on me both for strength/rep endurance and muscle size. When I'm on creatine I look noticeably fuller. Probably just the water weight gain, but it is noticeable.

 

[Jeraden]

Originally posted by: Special K
What would you say is your maintenance level of cals? That seems to be a very large difference between a bulk and a cut. Are your bulks pretty clean (i.e. minimal fat gain?)

The reason I ask is that I am starting my first cut and am not quite sure how much of a caloric deficit to go into. I suspect my maintenance level of cals is ~4000. My plan is to cut my daily total down by 200 each week until I start losing some fat, then hold it there for as long as I can. I want to preserve ideally all of my muscle and am willing to cut slowly if necessary. Right now I am at 4000 and will drop to 3800 tomorrow.

There's no way your maintenance cals are at 4000 unless you are HUGE. Here's a calculator you can use to figure it out:
http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/CalRequire.html

For cutting, you generally do 500 calories below your maintenance calories, which equates to 1lb lost per week (500 x 7 = 3500 which is calories for 1 pound). In addition, if you do cardio each day and burn another 500, you can get another pound lost each week. Generally recommended not to lose more than 2 lbs per week.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: Jeraden

Originally posted by: Special K
What would you say is your maintenance level of cals? That seems to be a very large difference between a bulk and a cut. Are your bulks pretty clean (i.e. minimal fat gain?)

The reason I ask is that I am starting my first cut and am not quite sure how much of a caloric deficit to go into. I suspect my maintenance level of cals is ~4000. My plan is to cut my daily total down by 200 each week until I start losing some fat, then hold it there for as long as I can. I want to preserve ideally all of my muscle and am willing to cut slowly if necessary. Right now I am at 4000 and will drop to 3800 tomorrow.

There's no way your maintenance cals are at 4000 unless you are HUGE. Here's a calculator you can use to figure it out:
http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/CalRequire.html

For cutting, you generally do 500 calories below your maintenance calories, which equates to 1lb lost per week (500 x 7 = 3500 which is calories for 1 pound). In addition, if you do cardio each day and burn another 500, you can get another pound lost each week. Generally recommended not to lose more than 2 lbs per week.

that calculator gives me almost 4000 calories, i'm 6 feet, 195lbs, and on average do about 1 hour of "heavy" exercise and 1 hour of "moderate" exercise per day (weight lifting, hockey, baseball). however, i work an office job (8 hours of work, 2.5 hours of commuting). seems kind of high, doesn't it?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: Jeraden

Originally posted by: Special K
What would you say is your maintenance level of cals? That seems to be a very large difference between a bulk and a cut. Are your bulks pretty clean (i.e. minimal fat gain?)

The reason I ask is that I am starting my first cut and am not quite sure how much of a caloric deficit to go into. I suspect my maintenance level of cals is ~4000. My plan is to cut my daily total down by 200 each week until I start losing some fat, then hold it there for as long as I can. I want to preserve ideally all of my muscle and am willing to cut slowly if necessary. Right now I am at 4000 and will drop to 3800 tomorrow.

There's no way your maintenance cals are at 4000 unless you are HUGE. Here's a calculator you can use to figure it out:
http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/CalRequire.html

For cutting, you generally do 500 calories below your maintenance calories, which equates to 1lb lost per week (500 x 7 = 3500 which is calories for 1 pound). In addition, if you do cardio each day and burn another 500, you can get another pound lost each week. Generally recommended not to lose more than 2 lbs per week.

that calculator gives me almost 4000 calories, i'm 6 feet, 195lbs, and on average do about 1 hour of "heavy" exercise and 1 hour of "moderate" exercise per day (weight lifting, hockey, baseball). however, i work an office job (8 hours of work, 2.5 hours of commuting). seems kind of high, doesn't it?

It gives me damn near 4300 calories. Of course, I'm 6' 210 lbs

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: Jeraden

Originally posted by: Special K
What would you say is your maintenance level of cals? That seems to be a very large difference between a bulk and a cut. Are your bulks pretty clean (i.e. minimal fat gain?)

The reason I ask is that I am starting my first cut and am not quite sure how much of a caloric deficit to go into. I suspect my maintenance level of cals is ~4000. My plan is to cut my daily total down by 200 each week until I start losing some fat, then hold it there for as long as I can. I want to preserve ideally all of my muscle and am willing to cut slowly if necessary. Right now I am at 4000 and will drop to 3800 tomorrow.

There's no way your maintenance cals are at 4000 unless you are HUGE. Here's a calculator you can use to figure it out:
http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/CalRequire.html

For cutting, you generally do 500 calories below your maintenance calories, which equates to 1lb lost per week (500 x 7 = 3500 which is calories for 1 pound). In addition, if you do cardio each day and burn another 500, you can get another pound lost each week. Generally recommended not to lose more than 2 lbs per week.

Well that calculator gives me 3548, not too far off. The reason I said 4000 is that I need to go up to 4200-4300 to see any weight gain, so I figured maintenance can't be too far off from that.

I'm 22 years old, 220 lbs, ~12% bf, with an office job, so activity level is pretty low.