Question for the agnostics

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: Kev

Originally posted by: Deeko
Why is it pointless? It's actually pretty simple. You don't think there's evidence either way. So you don't concern yourself over it. I guess it's "pointless" in that you don't really care?

What type of evidence could you ever possibly hope to acquire to prove the nonexistence of god?

I don't know. But my basic stance is that you can throw all the scientific explanations at me you can find - who is to say there isnt' a higher power behind them? Not you, not me. You're right, there probably ISN'T a way to know. So isn't it kind of foolish to pick a side so staunchly, when you have no reason to believe so?

You actually helped prove the agnostic's view by trying to denounce it. Nice.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: Kev

So you can't prove that gravity exists?

No, you cannot prove that, because it is logically impossible to exclude the possibility that gravity is actually the result of the industrious gravity-faeries moving things around.

You can't prove that the angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees?

This is, however, provable because it is not a quesiton that has to do with reality, but instead the definitions of Euclidean geometry.

What is this you can't prove a positive nonsense?

The previous poster was being a little sloppy, but the underlying point is a true one: facts about reality are unproveable. We can only establish parsimonious explanations that remain open to revision under new evidence. As the saying goes, "Proof is for mathematics and alcohol, science deals with evidence!"

My whole point about agnosticism being pointless is this: agnosticism states that you can neither prove nor disprove existence of god. However, you can inherently not disprove the existence of anything, which making a system of belief based around such an idea pointless.

Agnosticism is tantamout to saying "I do/don't believe X, but I also do not believe that my belief(s) about X are necessarily true and justified, i.e. knowledge." Insert God for X and you have described agnostic theists and agnostic atheists.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: Satchel

Originally posted by: Cerpin Taxt

Originally posted by: Vic
And should atheists ever be capable of proving their position that God doesn't exist, or theist theirs that God does exist, then agnostics might take sides. Until then, the whole argument looks a wee bit silly to us.

Actually, atheists like you make us all look silly by 1) being ignorant of his own position, and 2.) claiming to be waiting around for something that was impossible to begin with.

Vic clearly implied that he is an agnostic in that quoute, not an atheist.

Those are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Shadow Conception]

From what I know, agnostics just don't care.

Not believing OR believing and caring at the same time would mean that you would have to have a stance on the subject; subconscious or not.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
You and I know/understand maybe 0.000000000000000001% of the universe, what has been, what is, and what will be.

I do not see proof of a god in that tiny percentage known to me, but I do not deny the possibility that there is something more in the unknown part. If you claim god cannot possibly exists you are either too simple/ignorant too see outside of your limited knowledge, or too overwhelmed by 'your own greatness' that you think there cannot possibly be more.

Maybe the gods of old were nothing more than far more advanced aliens. Maybe there is indeed one or more very powerful beings. And maybe there is nothing more than tons of planets occupied by equally narrowminded creatures. I do not know, nor do you. And by claiming you do know, that you are 'all-knowing' in that area, you are only making yourself look dumb to my opinion.

that's a good attitude to have IMHO. i like to take it one step further though, and brand all of the people acting like they know something about God as idiots. the Pope and some bum on the street have the same credibility in my book.

Etc.

Some people simply cannot live without being told what to do, without being reminded that they are nothing. Masochists they are called usually. While other people can do what's good from their heart, some people need to be forced to do good by their religion.

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
You and I know/understand maybe 0.000000000000000001% of the universe, what has been, what is, and what will be.

I do not see proof of a god in that tiny percentage known to me, but I do not deny the possibility that there is something more in the unknown part. If you claim god cannot possibly exists you are either too simple/ignorant too see outside of your limited knowledge, or too overwhelmed by 'your own greatness' that you think there cannot possibly be more.

Maybe the gods of old were nothing more than far more advanced aliens. Maybe there is indeed one or more very powerful beings. And maybe there is nothing more than tons of planets occupied by equally narrowminded creatures. I do not know, nor do you. And by claiming you do know, that you are 'all-knowing' in that area, you are only making yourself look dumb to my opinion.

that's a good attitude to have IMHO. i like to take it one step further though, and brand all of the people acting like they know something about God as idiots. the Pope and some bum on the street have the same credibility in my book.

Etc.

Some people simply cannot live without being told what to do, without being reminded that they are nothing. Masochists they are called usually. While other people can do what's good from their heart, some people need to be forced to do good by their religion.

I think Marx's position was a bit extreme and he had a hate on for religion and institutions in general (and pretty much everything) so it's hard to look at it seriously. He was one of the best haters of all time though, so props for that. I think there is some good inherent in religion but it is tough to follow one when there are nuances of morality and good in most if not all of them. It is pretty scary that people follow their religion of choice to the letter though... that's when it becomes easy to view them as mindless dolts.