Question for street racers.

[boyRacer]

People like those are like those people obsessed with 3dMark... They do want the cheapest performance gain... in my view... driving skills will yield the best results for the price...

 

[flot]

Not all performance or tweaked cars are unreliable. A lot of "bolt on" technology is just crap.

My 300ZX is putting out ~380 hp at the engine. It has 150,000 miles on it. It's my daily driver and has normal problems for a car of its age and milage, but so far haven't had a single problem related to the extra 100 horses its been putting out for the last 60,000 miles.

And those are real world numbers - a buddy dynoed his Z with similar mods, putting down something like 330-340 hp to the rear wheels. Very respectable.

Of course, as someone else observed... Those that feel the need to talk - usually can't back up their words. I just want to bring up the point that you can modify a good number of cars out there and still have a reliable daily driver. But there is definitely a line you shouldn't cross (for the Z it's about 500 hp) where you're just asking for trouble. Also one of the biggest differences is that the Z is turbocharged from the factory - you're dealing with mostly factory components. When you start adding "bob's turbo kit" to some random car, you are introducing a lot of variables, and it is very easy to have a catestrophic engine failure because a $5 part went bad.

 

[DDDavey]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: Yield
well you obviously didn't read my post.. i was talking about nitrous............ i was suggesting how to get more power without hurting your engine... i didn't say anything about tuning it to make it run better standing under the hood.

Actually, your post said

You can make it alot faster without having to work on it alot. it's called "internals"

That seems to imply that 1) better internals make your car faster. And 2) replacing the internals is not a lot of work.
Then you go on to say

put a turbo on the engine, and do the internals... shouldn't have any problems other than normal if it's done right.

This is usually true.
[q/]now, if you run Nitrous that's different.. it's not good for your engine. nitrous on a stock engine will eventually kill it.

Since when are we talking about a stock engine? Didn't we just repalce the internals about two sentances ago? Nitrous on a built motor is going to be jsut as reliable as a turbo, if you do it right.[/quote]

I agree with the guy who is uh...not Fred?

Anyways, the "nitrous blows up engines" thing is BS. Sure, people blow up engines running Nitrous, but they blow them up running blowers, turbo's, and N/A as well! If you don't go overboard on the nitrous, make sure it's TUNED and supply the right amount of fuel, along with having the timing set correctly, you'll be just ducky. Tuning!

As for internals, of course, depending on what you're trying to achieve, different internals are better than others. I wouldn't try and spray the hell outta my engine if I had hypereutic pistons!

Also, as far as turbos, they're a lot less harder on a stock engine than you'd think. Especially comepared to a supercharger which puts a sideload on the crank. Maximum Boost by Corky Bell is some good turbo reading if you're interested.

My kit ships today or tomorrow

 

[LAUST]

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[Desslok]

Originally posted by: flot
Not all performance or tweaked cars are unreliable. A lot of "bolt on" technology is just crap. My 300ZX is putting out ~380 hp at the engine. It has 150,000 miles on it. It's my daily driver and has normal problems for a car of its age and milage, but so far haven't had a single problem related to the extra 100 horses its been putting out for the last 60,000 miles. And those are real world numbers - a buddy dynoed his Z with similar mods, putting down something like 330-340 hp to the rear wheels. Very respectable. Of course, as someone else observed... Those that feel the need to talk - usually can't back up their words. I just want to bring up the point that you can modify a good number of cars out there and still have a reliable daily driver. But there is definitely a line you shouldn't cross (for the Z it's about 500 hp) where you're just asking for trouble. Also one of the biggest differences is that the Z is turbocharged from the factory - you're dealing with mostly factory components. When you start adding "bob's turbo kit" to some random car, you are introducing a lot of variables, and it is very easy to have a catestrophic engine failure because a $5 part went bad.

Very well put flot.

A lot of people think the WRX's tranny is too weak and they complain non stop. I personally have not had any problems with mine, then again I am not out there dropping the clutch at 4k and sifting way to hard.

 

[LAUST]

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[StageLeft]

My max makes 310 at the wheels stock. Nissan 4EVA.

 

[KokomoGST]

Methinks the guy on MTV was a poseur rather than someone with bonafide knowledge. Yeah, wheel dynos are great tools... but driving it right and hooking the launch is just as important in most cases. If you don't have a dyno sheet, I'm not going to believe your hp numbers unless you have a timeslip to guesstimate from.

Torque monsters like the Hennessey TT Viper have massive problems with launches as do most modded C5s and ZO6s... their 60fts may suck... but their trap speeds do say that they're more traction limited than power limited in many cases.

The tranny is definitely the weak spot in some cars, like the WRX and DSMs... it more because the engines, with proper fuel, end up being too much power for the OE clutch to hold or too much stress on the tranny itself. Pump try to pump 400+hp through a factory WRX clutch, even pussyfooting the car, you'll have it slipping on you sooner than later.

Other cars have virtually bulletproof trannies but their engines need stronger valvetrain, stronger rods, etc... sometimes the driveline itself is the weak point once you start making a lot of power. I mean, think about it... the OE spec isn't usually meant to survive over twice the amount of stress as normal stock conditions for a long period of time. That's why the aftermarket usually has replacements or upgrades.

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: Yield
You can make it alot faster without having to work on it alot.
it's called "internals"

put a turbo on the engine, and do the internals... shouldn't have any problems other than normal if it's done right.
now, if you run Nitrous that's different.. it's not good for your engine. nitrous on a stock engine will eventually kill it.

You make it sound like it's small beans to pull a motor out of a car to replace the pistons/rods/etc.

 

[LAUST]

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[JeffreyLebowski]

Also, as far as turbos, they're a lot less harder on a stock engine than you'd think.

Well before turboing, you need to know what the compression ratio your pistons are, cause if you have a high compression ratio and try to turbocharge it to much, you will F'up your motor.

And Nitros is bad for your engine block. If you run more than a 50 shot, you risk it eating away at the metal, and damaging the piston rings.

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Also, as far as turbos, they're a lot less harder on a stock engine than you'd think.

Well before turboing, you need to know what the compression ratio your pistons are, cause if you have a high compression ratio and try to turbocharge it to much, you will F'up your motor.

And Nitros is bad for your engine block. If you run more than a 50 shot, you risk it eating away at the metal, and damaging the piston rings.

come on people, learn what you're talking about before you post.

 

[Desslok]

I just remembered something the guy with the Integra said. "This is NOS it freezes the air coming into the engine and gives you a big boost in power" Now the last time I check Nitrious was an Oxidizer, how does it "..freeze the air..." ?? Am I missing something here?

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Also, as far as turbos, they're a lot less harder on a stock engine than you'd think.

Well before turboing, you need to know what the compression ratio your pistons are, cause if you have a high compression ratio and try to turbocharge it to much, you will F'up your motor.

And Nitros is bad for your engine block. If you run more than a 50 shot, you risk it eating away at the metal, and damaging the piston rings.

come on people, learn what you're talking about before you post.

hahaha, talk about blanket statement. So if I had a viper and put a 50 shot on it, will I blow up my engine??

 

[KokomoGST]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Also, as far as turbos, they're a lot less harder on a stock engine than you'd think.

Well before turboing, you need to know what the compression ratio your pistons are, cause if you have a high compression ratio and try to turbocharge it to much, you will F'up your motor.

And Nitros is bad for your engine block. If you run more than a 50 shot, you risk it eating away at the metal, and damaging the piston rings.

Well, turboing works just fine if done right... too bad so many people do it wrong. IF you're not running lean or generating to much heat (ie your kit is stupid and didn't come with an intercooler) and detonating the living snot out of your engine or overstressing your con rods, headstuds, etc... you should be good to go. That's a big "IF"...

Nitrous in some cars doesn't hurt at all... especially with a proper wet kit. This isn't the Rice&Ridiculous where nitrous will always fry piston rings and causes "Danger to manifold!"

With the wrong engine, even a 25 shot could hurt... usually if you're tuning right you won't fry your rings. But the concern of detonation is a greater issue... if I dump a dry 100shot into an engine, I might just hole a piston. But then again, if I have proper fuel and a good engine, I can shrug off 100shots... there are more than a few LS1s running around with 100shot nitrous capability.

 

[bolido2000]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
My max makes 310 at the wheels stock. Nissan 4EVA.

You're Maxima makes 310 FWHP stock?????

 

[bolido2000]

Originally posted by: Desslok
I just remembered something the guy with the Integra said. "This is NOS it freezes the air coming into the engine and gives you a big boost in power" Now the last time I check Nitrious was an Oxidizer, how does it "..freeze the air..." ?? Am I missing something here?

The guy in the Integra has the right idea, but is incorrectly worded. Simply put, when nitrous oxide decomposes you get more 02 molecules inside the engine and this creates more power. I am guessing by "freezing" he meant that the air cools down, which means a higher density and thus more 02 molecules. End result is similar, but the process of achieving it is different.
Nitrous is just an oxidizer.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: Desslok
I just remembered something the guy with the Integra said. "This is NOS it freezes the air coming into the engine and gives you a big boost in power" Now the last time I check Nitrious was an Oxidizer, how does it "..freeze the air..." ?? Am I missing something here?

You are.

Nitrous oxide is generally stored under high pressure in liquid form in the bottle, and remains a liquid in the lines up to the solenoid. When the valve is opened the liquid flows up to the nozzle, where it's expelled and undergoes a phase change from liquid to gas when the pressure is released. Ever notice a spray can that gets cold when you're spraying?

With turbo and superchargers, one of the biggest enemies is heat; mechanically compressing air generates heat, which in turn reduces the density of that air and limits the maximum potential of the system. Intercoolers effectively bring the temperature of the incoming air down much closer to the ambient air temp, allowing more fuel to be burned, generating power. With nitrous oxide, no intercooler is needed.

 

[LAUST]

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[Tom]

The cold temp of NOS has some benefit, but that's not the main reason for the power increase. It's the extra oxygen combining with more fuel that makes a bigger bang, that's what makes the power.

 

[CraigRT]

Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
The cold temp of NOS has some benefit, but that's not the main reason for the power increase. It's the extra oxygen combining with more fuel that makes a bigger bang, that's what makes the power.

that's also what can damage a stock engines guts.. which is what i was saying earlier.. i personally won't use nitrous.. i'd rather go the extra mile and slap a turbo on my car. as long as i'm not boosting too high, it should be perfectly reliable.

 

[KhoiFather]

Come on now guys, first of all, you should call it Nitrous Oxide and not NOS. NOS is a brand, and people call it NOS because of Fast and the Furious. Getting more power from your engine without using NOS is pretty easy but it depends on the setup you want, F.I. or all motor. The funny thing to me is you see guys with all motor cars beating guys with F.I. cars. It all depends on the work you put in your engine, and don't think a couple of grand is going to make your car go zoom zoom.

The idiot guy with the Integra probably didn't know what he was doing, but claiming 200hp without Nitrios Oxide is pretty good for a four banger. Integra GSR stock gets around 160hp to the wheels stock. He shouldn't have been talking trash until he earned it. That is what I hate, people talking trash just because they think they have a fast car.

 

[SlowSS]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
My max makes 310 at the wheels stock. Nissan 4EVA.

The stock Maxima puts down 255 HP (Approx. 217 FWHP), so what have you done to gain additional 55 HP?

 

[BooneRebel]

Originally posted by: KhoiFather
Come on now guys, first of all, you should call it Nitrous Oxide and not NOS. NOS is a brand, and people call it NOS because of Fast and the Furious. Getting more power from your engine without using NOS is pretty easy but it depends on the setup you want, F.I. or all motor. The funny thing to me is you see guys with all motor cars beating guys with F.I. cars. It all depends on the work you put in your engine, and don't think a couple of grand is going to make your car go zoom zoom.

The idiot guy with the Integra probably didn't know what he was doing, but claiming 200hp without Nitrios Oxide is pretty good for a four banger. Integra GSR stock gets around 160hp to the wheels stock. He shouldn't have been talking trash until he earned it. That is what I hate, people talking trash just because they think they have a fast car.

NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS. NOS.

This comes up in every race thread. Yes, it is Nitrous Oxide. Yes, NOS is a brand. However, the brand recognition has overwhelmed the product name. Just like calling a facial tissue a Kleenex. It doesn't matter if it came from "Fast and the Furious" (where did the script writer get it from, anyway?), it's entered the mainstream. You're not going to reverse the process by correcting anyone that says NOS instead of Nitrous Oxide. Deal wid it.

 

[Scootin159]

You also have to include handling & weight into the equation.

My car is only putting about 150hp to the rear wheels, yet can beat most cars (including 911's, a lot of Ferrari's, most any homebred car) at the track. In fact short of a F40 or other $200k+ supercar, what is often the fastest car at the track? The 180hp Lotus Elise.