Question for religious people - OP Updated with summary

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: DAGTA

When you start to believe in eternal life and take on that point of view, your point of view of everything in this life shifts. Also, when you have a relationship with God, you will feel a desire to help other people because that is in accordance with God's will. Man cannot save himself with good deeds because none of us are perfect. However, good deeds seem to naturally follow a relationship with God.

I dunno why, but after reading the entire thread this still sticks out as being the most relevant point. I'm not a christian, anyone who bothers to read religion threads would know that, but lets say the above post is absolute truth.

God says "I'll give you ~80 years, and then I'll give you forever". "Where you spend it is up to you". "You could spend it with me, which is more wonderful than the wonderfullest thing you can ever imagine, or you can spend it without me, which is worse than you think since you're kinda-sorta with me now."

That ~80 years and ANYTHING you do in it suddenly becomes so trivial, so inconsequential compared to the eternity beyond, that you really could consider readjusting your priorities in this life. All this squabbling over economics, politics, etc. amounts to ZILCH. Your great paying job, your speedboat, your eleven story mansion of gold...dust in the wind. This life DOES NOT MATTER because you're not even really living yet. I'm sure that after 100,000 years of chillin' with god all this nonsense will be a dim memory (if memories get dim in heaven).

So eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow you might find out which eternity you get.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


P.S. I don't believe anything I just said I was just strongly moved by DAGTA's post.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: Vic
Osama bin Laden has murdered thousands for personal glory, not the glory of God no matter how much he might claim otherwise, and therefore is not saved.

Are you questioning his faith? Is your faith better then his? More correct? Hes not going to heaven but you are? because your faith says so?

Not at all. His faith says so. The Koran is far more harsh against murder and murderers than is the Bible (not that that is my faith, which I even said). But hey, way to put words in my mouth! Yet another asshole!

For a giant flaming asshole, who seems to like to argue sh!t for the fvck of it, you sure know a lot about religions that you do not believe in. fvcking asshole.

Also never did I say that the bible was what you believed in. so you can STFU. ass. hole. asshole. your mom. is fat. so fat. very fat. fat. ass. hole.

How is it that you people think you can change what I said and you said when it's all quoted and documented right here on an internet message board? Wow you make yourself look stupid. Nice work. I just sit back and do nothing.

And kindly explain to me what is wrong with being educated without faith? I have read the Bible and the Koran, along with the Gita, Vedas, several other religious texts, along with countless anti-religious texts (including virtually everything by Joseph Campbell). I find religious studies to be fascinating. Am I required to believe in all of those?

 

[randay]

Whats wrong is that you come in here with a giant fucken stick up your ass, your nose so high up in the air that you can smell what god ate for dinner last night, and you tell EVERYONE in here how stupid they are, both sides of the f'in arguement in fact. You are the asshole here and I think I speak for everyone when I say you can take your educated ass and beat it.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: Vic

And kindly explain to me what is wrong with being educated without faith? I have read the Bible and the Koran, along with the Gita, Vedas, several other religious texts, along with countless anti-religious texts (including virtually everything by Joseph Campbell). I find religious studies to be fascinating. Am I required to believe in all of those?

Somewhere way back, I think it was in your "Why is believing in God different from believing in aliens" thread, you claimed to adhere to the muslim faith, but that you didn't accept Mohammed as your prophet. Has this changed or are you arguing on principle here?

 

[Satchel]

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: Vic
Osama bin Laden has murdered thousands for personal glory, not the glory of God no matter how much he might claim otherwise, and therefore is not saved.

Are you questioning his faith? Is your faith better then his? More correct? Hes not going to heaven but you are? because your faith says so?

Not at all. His faith says so. The Koran is far more harsh against murder and murderers than is the Bible (not that that is my faith, which I even said). But hey, way to put words in my mouth! Yet another asshole!

For a giant flaming asshole, who seems to like to argue sh!t for the fvck of it, you sure know a lot about religions that you do not believe in. fvcking asshole.

Also never did I say that the bible was what you believed in. so you can STFU. ass. hole. asshole. your mom. is fat. so fat. very fat. fat. ass. hole.

Best rebuttal ever. You just can't beat that logic. The part about Vic's mom being fat really cemented the argument. I mean, she's not just fat, she's very fat. What a brilliant display of debating skills.

 

[Satchel]

Originally posted by: randay
Whats wrong is that you come in here with a giant fucken stick up your ass, your nose so high up in the air that you can smell what god ate for dinner last night, and you tell EVERYONE in here how stupid they are, both sides of the f'in arguement in fact. You are the asshole here and I think I speak for everyone when I say you can take your educated ass and beat it.

You've barely been here a month while Vic is an Elite member who has been here over 5 years. Maybe you should beat it.

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: DAGTA

When you start to believe in eternal life and take on that point of view, your point of view of everything in this life shifts. Also, when you have a relationship with God, you will feel a desire to help other people because that is in accordance with God's will. Man cannot save himself with good deeds because none of us are perfect. However, good deeds seem to naturally follow a relationship with God.

I dunno why, but after reading the entire thread this still sticks out as being the most relevant point. I'm not a christian, anyone who bothers to read religion threads would know that, but lets say the above post is absolute truth.

God says "I'll give you ~80 years, and then I'll give you forever". "Where you spend it is up to you". "You could spend it with me, which is more wonderful than the wonderfullest thing you can ever imagine, or you can spend it without me, which is worse than you think since you're kinda-sorta with me now."

That ~80 years and ANYTHING you do in it suddenly becomes so trivial, so inconsequential compared to the eternity beyond, that you really could consider readjusting your priorities in this life. All this squabbling over economics, politics, etc. amounts to ZILCH. Your great paying job, your speedboat, your eleven story mansion of gold...dust in the wind. This life DOES NOT MATTER because you're not even really living yet. I'm sure that after 100,000 years of chillin' with god all this nonsense will be a dim memory (if memories get dim in heaven).

So eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow you might find out which eternity you get.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


P.S. I don't believe anything I just said I was just strongly moved by DAGTA's post.

Interesting. What if we havent decided by the end of this lifetime? What if one lifetime is not enough to decide. So far for 25 years I can't say I have spent much time thinking about religion. My general stance is that I dont believe in religions, don't need one, and can't really see myself finding a "faith". However, when it comes to whether there is a god or not, I am undecided I can't honestly say from the bottom of my heart whether there is or isn't one. Does that earn me the hell prize when I die? Do I get anymore time to try and figure it out or what?

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: SatchelYou've barely been here a month while Vic is an Elite member who has been here over 5 years. Maybe you should beat it.

Oh no! an ELITE member. 5 years, hes so old! Sorry. No. Doesn't change the fact that he is acting like a complete ass here today.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: Satchel

Originally posted by: randay
Whats wrong is that you come in here with a giant fucken stick up your ass, your nose so high up in the air that you can smell what god ate for dinner last night, and you tell EVERYONE in here how stupid they are, both sides of the f'in arguement in fact. You are the asshole here and I think I speak for everyone when I say you can take your educated ass and beat it.

You've barely been here a month while Vic is an Elite member who has been here over 5 years. Maybe you should beat it.

Well I respect Vic and all, but as in life you shouldn't defer to others simply because of popularity or seniority.

Post count, elite status, and time spent on a forum do not automatically make your arguments any better. I will admit that randay's way of expressing himself doesn't lend itself to logical debate...

 

[DAGTA]

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: DAGTA

Originally posted by: BudAshes
You realize that was the stupidest thing i have ever read. Seriously dude, you are crazy, just admit it and get some meds.

Since you know everything, please prescribe which medications I should take, the amount, and the frequency. Thanks.

Cyanide, 100mg, just once. You're welcome.





Seriously, its fine to have your beliefs, and you've certainly got company with yours...but its amusing that you make sarcastic remarks about everyone else 'having it all figured out' when you yourself are equally sure of your own beliefs. And you call others on here hypocrites?

You can't say with any authority though that anyone else is wrong and that you're right. There's no proof. Thats what faith is. The crazy homeless man that thinks god is a giant robot that demands blood sacrifices daily could be the only one that has it figured out for all we know.

I chose to respond to BudAshes with sarcasm because he seemed to be trolling instead of adding to the discussion.

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee I will admit that randay's way of expressing himself doesn't lend itself to logical debate...

I will gladly concede to that point, and if Vic has taken any of that seriously, I offer my apologies. I don't really mean any of it. I am very quick to sink to/match certain levels. Just my way of making sure you know I am mad.

 

[thecrecarc]

ok, i like to argue as much as u guys do, but seriously.
1. get on topic
2. stop flaming others
3. if u cant do the above,STFU

god damnit!

(on second thouoght, "god dammit" might not be the right phrase here 😛 )

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: randay

Interesting. What if we havent decided by the end of this lifetime? What if one lifetime is not enough to decide. So far for 25 years I can't say I have spent much time thinking about religion. My general stance is that I dont believe in religions, don't need one, and can't really see myself finding a "faith". However, when it comes to whether there is a god or not, I am undecided I can't honestly say from the bottom of my heart whether there is or isn't one. Does that earn me the hell prize when I die? Do I get anymore time to try and figure it out or what?

I dunno. I'm on the fence about there even BEING an afterlife. In the hypothetical situation in which there was an afterlife I'd say that the smart money's on "NO". Based the information I've been exposed to, there is no overtime, no double overtime and so-on. You get this life, if that's not enough then that's your problem.

I can't say I agree with it or that it even bothers me that badly, but that seems to be the case.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Satchel

Originally posted by: randay
Whats wrong is that you come in here with a giant fucken stick up your ass, your nose so high up in the air that you can smell what god ate for dinner last night, and you tell EVERYONE in here how stupid they are, both sides of the f'in arguement in fact. You are the asshole here and I think I speak for everyone when I say you can take your educated ass and beat it.

You've barely been here a month while Vic is an Elite member who has been here over 5 years. Maybe you should beat it.

i have far more post then you and been here way longer. maybe you should beat it?



post count and time on the board mean jack ******. anyone that cares about that when reading a persons post about something (well besides FS/FT thread) is a ****** moron. hmm so i guess we found one.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: Vic

And kindly explain to me what is wrong with being educated without faith? I have read the Bible and the Koran, along with the Gita, Vedas, several other religious texts, along with countless anti-religious texts (including virtually everything by Joseph Campbell). I find religious studies to be fascinating. Am I required to believe in all of those?

Somewhere way back, I think it was in your "Why is believing in God different from believing in aliens" thread, you claimed to adhere to the muslim faith, but that you didn't accept Mohammed as your prophet. Has this changed or are you arguing on principle here?

No, I didn't. I recall that thread well (by far the longest of the few that I have started here, and my favorite). What I did say is that my personal conception of God (as purely an intellectual concept, and not one of belief) is most similar to that of Islam, particularly Sufism, in which God is the conscious reflection of the totality of the universe. I did not claim to adhere to the Muslim faith.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: Satchel

Originally posted by: randay
Whats wrong is that you come in here with a giant fucken stick up your ass, your nose so high up in the air that you can smell what god ate for dinner last night, and you tell EVERYONE in here how stupid they are, both sides of the f'in arguement in fact. You are the asshole here and I think I speak for everyone when I say you can take your educated ass and beat it.

You've barely been here a month while Vic is an Elite member who has been here over 5 years. Maybe you should beat it.

Well I respect Vic and all, but as in life you shouldn't defer to others simply because of popularity or seniority.

Post count, elite status, and time spent on a forum do not automatically make your arguments any better. I will admit that randay's way of expressing himself doesn't lend itself to logical debate...

I agree. I don't ask to be deferred to on the basis of popularity or seniority. My statements against randay were made because of his direct personal attack against me in stark contrast to my own stated beliefs. I found his illogic quite objectionable, and said as much. His rebuttals since have been nothing less than completely predictable.


edit: I just saw his following post. His apology is more than accepted. I enjoy heated debates (and admit that I occasionally incite them), as they tend to decant honesty and opinion best. No harm, no foul.

 

[Satchel]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Satchel

Originally posted by: randay
Whats wrong is that you come in here with a giant fucken stick up your ass, your nose so high up in the air that you can smell what god ate for dinner last night, and you tell EVERYONE in here how stupid they are, both sides of the f'in arguement in fact. You are the asshole here and I think I speak for everyone when I say you can take your educated ass and beat it.

You've barely been here a month while Vic is an Elite member who has been here over 5 years. Maybe you should beat it.

i have far more post then you and been here way longer. maybe you should beat it?



post count and time on the board mean jack ******. anyone that cares about that when reading a persons post about something (well besides FS/FT thread) is a ****** moron. hmm so i guess we found one.

You would be correct if I were attempting to validate Vic's argument by defering to his post count. That would be an appeal to authority, a logical fallacy. However, I made no mention of Vic's agrument and I certainly wasn't trying to validate it. I was simply commenting on randay's claim that everyone wants Vic to leave. With that in mind, Vic's status on this board and his time here become very relevant.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: Vic

No, I didn't. I recall that thread well (by far the longest of the few that I have started here, and my favorite). What I did say is that my personal conception of God (as purely an intellectual concept, and not one of belief) is most similar to that of Islam, particularly Sufism, in which God is the conscious reflection of the totality of the universe. I did not claim to adhere to the Muslim faith.

Ahah. Damn you for making me look but if you look at the 16th post on this page, you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. But yes I am mistaken in thinking that you actually "adhere" to the muslim faith. It wasn't even in the thread I mentioned, but because of the fact that you didn't actively refute kinev's post I was lead to believe that you prescribe to the muslim faith.

 

[ruffilb]

OP updated.

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: DaShen
Christian, and absolute belief in Jesus Christ as Your Personal Lord and Savior is. It is very clear in the Bible. Everything else is secondary.
Why ask this, when the answer is very clear in the Bible for Christians.

For one thing, you can be a Christian and not believe in the Bible at all.

Christ didn't write the Bible.

So any point in between, from rejecting the Bible, to thinking it's the literal word of God, could still be a Christian.

My own opinion is that anyone who doesn't realize that the Bible was written by men, and is therefore by definition, imperfect, is worshipping idols, not ideas.


Christ tried to teach people how to live together on Earth, not give people a treasure map.

 

[ruffilb]

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: DaShen
Christian, and absolute belief in Jesus Christ as Your Personal Lord and Savior is. It is very clear in the Bible. Everything else is secondary.
Why ask this, when the answer is very clear in the Bible for Christians.

For one thing, you can be a Christian and not believe in the Bible at all.

Christ didn't write the Bible.

So any point in between, from rejecting the Bible, to thinking it's the literal word of God, could still be a Christian.

My own opinion is that anyone who doesn't realize that the Bible was written by men, and is therefore by definition, imperfect, is worshipping idols, not ideas.

Interesting twist...

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: ruffilb

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: DaShen
Christian, and absolute belief in Jesus Christ as Your Personal Lord and Savior is. It is very clear in the Bible. Everything else is secondary.
Why ask this, when the answer is very clear in the Bible for Christians.

For one thing, you can be a Christian and not believe in the Bible at all.

Christ didn't write the Bible.

So any point in between, from rejecting the Bible, to thinking it's the literal word of God, could still be a Christian.

My own opinion is that anyone who doesn't realize that the Bible was written by men, and is therefore by definition, imperfect, is worshipping idols, not ideas.

Interesting twist...

very. I like it.

 

[SoundTheSurrender]

The basis of Christian is accepting Jesus Christ as your savior. Only through him is the only way to go to heaven. You could be a murderer but if you accept Jesus as your savior and follwing the bible as best as you can. A sin is a sin in Gods eyes no matter what kind of sin. Stealing or murder it's a sin. At least thats what I was taught, but I don't practice it.

 

[chusteczka]

Is belief ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for a reward after death?

No, the reward encourages good behavior in view of the large amount of suffering experienced throughout life.

Religious theories, beliefs, and texts are not meant to be taken literally. They are a symbolic description of a real-life situation.

For instance, the concept of hell is not literal but a symbolic description of the mental anguish a person's conscience will endure through memories of past actions.

Mental anguish can be a component of personal suffering, which returns us to the concept of a reward to encourage good behavior to alleviate said suffering. If hell can be viewed as mental anguish, then heaven can be viewed as mental peace. Through mental peace, you may experience your reward while you are still alive.


I am agnostic but one of the more interesting classes I took at the university was introduction to religious philosophy. You may find such a class interesting as well.

Course Summary for the course I took: Introduction to World Religions and Philosophy

The purpose of this course is to help you to understand the beliefs and practices of the world?s major religions: i.e., Hinduism, Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, focusing on the doctrines, worldviews, and spiritual ideals of each. Some of you will take this course to learn more about your own religious tradition. Others have chosen it to become more familiar with religions different from your own, but which, as the consequence of an increasingly global culture, increasingly affect your lives. In either case, it is important for you to enter the course with an open mind, prepared to learn new things, and to hear more familiar ideas described in new and unfamiliar ways. The purpose of the course is not simply to provide you with new information, nor is it to make you more comfortable with ideas you already hold. On the contrary, the goal of the course is to challenge you, by introducing you to new ideas as well as new views of old ideas, and thus deepen and enlarge your thinking about the world?s religions.

 

[chusteczka]

Originally posted by: thecrecarc
unless of course, religion is tottaly wrong

Religious philosophy is not wrong even though certain practices of it may be.