Question for my Fellow AM3 owners.

[ElFenix]

i wonder if the only real difference is memory support. cheaper AM3 designs may not be able to handle the memory frequency BD is capable of, while more expensive overclocker friendly boards already are able to handle those frequencies.

:hmm:


edit: nm i see there's an added pin on BD

 

[bleucharm28]

lol @ ultimatum, AMD is not your girlfriend .

LOL ROFL!

I myself like everyone else here, well...not everyone; will alway try to catch the next best wave. But the way I see it now is, if you need to upgrade. Go get the very best and enjoy the ride. I built my first PC back in 2005, it was an AMD Athlon 64 4000+ 939 with with an ASUS A8N-SLi Deluxe motherboard. That setup is still running strong 24 X 7 today with WinXP Pro. The only thing I upgraded was 2 GT8600 video card, before that was GT6600.

In 2009, I had this itch wanting upgrade bad, really bad. A lot of my friends had Quad Core CPU's from Intel, you all know this cpu, the Q6600. I hear nothing but good thing about this awsome cpu, but I told myself that I was happy and content with my AMD Athlon 4000+.

Of Course, that didn't last very long because the moment I saw the Asus Rampage II X58. It was love at first sight. I believe this new Core i7 setup will resolve many, many, many issues. This MB alone cost me $388.99, the perfomance compared to my Athlon 64 was apples to oranges. And now with the Sandy Bridge CPU's, I still feel pretty good about my setup. Maybe I'm just telling myself that to me feel better.

AND now, did any of you see the new X58 ASUS Rampage III BE? WTF MAN! $%@#@#%

Sigh!

 

[LoneNinja]

Personally I bought AM3 because I've got 2 Athlon II X4 processors, great budget quads and Intel just can't touch their performance/$$$ in threaded apps. Sure I3 is good, but I find Athlon II X4 to be better for my uses and thus I went AM3.

Honestly after seeing the difference between B2 and B3 on Phenom, than C2 and C3 on Phenom II/Athlon II, i'll be waiting for a revision on both Llano and Bulldozer before I get either one of them. I also intend on all new builds as both of my AM3 boards are micro, and in smaller cases that won't fit a 120mm cpu cooler.

So I couldn't care less that Bulldozer, and probably Llano, need all new sockets.

 

[f4phantom2500]

look, the thing is amd is notoriously hush hush about these things; anything you may have read in the past regarding these things is always subject to change. you have to keep in mind amd's position over the last couple of years. they're trying to skate by on a pretty old architecture that's on its last legs, while intel are a full 2 generations ahead. i'm not saying it's ok that these "assurances" were made, but let's get real here, anything that is said about a tech product like this over a year before it is released should be taken with a grain of salt; designs change. it's likely that amd was hoping for bulldozer to be a drop in upgrade for am3, but when they realized what kind of chips intel would have at the time, they probably realized that they couldn't afford to hold back. if you're one of the ones that bought an am3 board with hopes of a bulldozer future, don't be mad at amd, in fact this is one of the reasons why amd is usually pretty hush hush about this kind of stuff, so that they don't inadvertently make promises that they can't fulfill. but, of course, someone affiliated with amd may tell someone affiliated with a tech site that amd's design team wants am3 compatibility, then that quote gets taken out of context, someone on a forum paraphrases it, etc etc...seriously, if you bought yourself a nice am3 system like a year ago thinking you'd be able to drop in bulldozer in a few months from *now*, don't get pissed off. just be glad that you've had yourself a pretty nice computer for the last year, and get over it. it might cost you, what $100~$150 for a new am3+ board? take that cost over the time that you've had your am3 rig. for the given example, a year. $150 for a year isn't too bad. besides, if you were planning on selling your "shitty" phenom ii chip when you got to bulldozer, what's the big problem with selling a motherboard along with it? this kind of thing happens with computers all the time; it's not the end of the world. besides, at least you can use your current ram, graphics card, hdd/ssd, cd drive, case, and psu in a bulldozer rig!

 

[Vidman]

Did you buy AM3 in the hopes of Bulldozer backwards compatibility?

No. I bought it to use with a phenom II cpu. When buying computer components buy the best stuff you can afford at that moment and be done with it.

I wouldn't shed too many tears as you'll probably be able to use DDR3 memory in the AM3+ mainboards so what's the big deal? Just get cpu/mobo combo when the Bulldozer comes out. There's no tears in PC upgrading. Either do it or don't. Have an issue? here's a tissue! haha

 

[Skurge]

Other,

When I bought my AM3 system it was either the AM3 system or an S775 system for the same price. I figured the AM3 system would last me longer.

In any case, Im gonna pickup one of those AM3+ Gigabyte mobos and RAM while its still cheap and get a BD CPU on release.

If BD sucks, i'll just return the mobo and wait for Ivy bridge, I don't feel like being locked into a midrange 4 core system (SB)

 

[Herald85]

No, I bought it because it made sense price/performance wise at the time. An upgrade to bulldozer was always a 'maybe, maybe not' and would've been a nice unexpected bonus for me.

 

[ZipSpeed]

Did you buy AM3 in the hopes of Bulldozer backwards compatibility?

I bought both my AMD systems knowing full well that it won't be upgradable to BD. At the time, the 1055T represented good bang for the buck for the work I do and the 640 I got was a part of a cheap cruncher build since I had various spare parts laying around.

 

[RobertPters77]

Wow alot of No's.

 

[(sic)Klown12]

Wow alot of No's.

Most people understand you can only go so far while retaining backwards compatibility. If making Bulldozer work in current AM3 motherboards limited it's potential performance any, then the move to a new socket is justified.

 

[stargazr]

No. I built an Athlon II X3 rig for gf a few months ago on a tight budget.

I wouldn't feel comfortable buying a MB for a chip that's not out yet.

 

[Rifter]

I wasnt "hoping" for anything i was going on the info directly from AMD themselves that said it would work with AM3, multiple times most of which are linked above.

So basically i got lied to by AMD and bought into it and every PC in my house other than my main gaming rig is AM3 and now im completly screwed for a upgrade path. Needless to say i think i'll stick with intel for a while going forward. At least with intel you know where you stand, they might not have the best compatability with sockets and new CPU's but they dont lie to you about it either.

 

[blckgrffn]

I wasnt "hoping" for anything i was going on the info directly from AMD themselves that said it would work with AM3, multiple times most of which are linked above.

So basically i got lied to by AMD and bought into it and every PC in my house other than my main gaming rig is AM3 and now im completly screwed for a upgrade path. Needless to say i think i'll stick with intel for a while going forward. At least with intel you know where you stand, they might not have the best compatability with sockets and new CPU's but they dont lie to you about it either.

Completely screwed? I mean, the best you can do on older AM3 boards is Thuban... which is pretty horrible!



heh. I am rocking AM2 at home (5+ machines) exclusively outside of my two lab machines - I have ~ 4 year old AM2 board that I could put an AM2+ 920 BE if I wanted. A couple of them (miraculously?) have support for AM3 processors. If you buy AM3 right now you'll likely see some of the same magic in the coming months (as folks here are reporting.) So, AMD will not have lied after all. You just bought AM3 before integrators knew what would be needed for them to also support Bull Dozer.

What Intel chipset would have purchased that would have made this any different? Might as well gripe about how short of a life 1156 had, it was like Socket 754 (I appreciated both sockets, lots of value there.)

Then again my 955x Pentium D box can't support anything more than Pentium Ds, despite support for 800 Mhz DDR2 and a S775. My 975x board doesn't support 45nm Quads. Poor me!

 

[Idontcare]

I almost bought an AM3 thuban-based rig to replace my Q6600 rig.

My reasoning at the time to go AM3 vs. AM2+ was that I have 8GB of DDR2 in my Q6600 rig that I could put to use in an AM2+ thuban rig.

BUT I was willing to eat the cost of going AM3 and buying DDR3 ram, tossing out my DDR2 ram, because all indications from AMD up to that point in time were that an investment into an AM3 rig would be an investment that could be upgraded to a Bulldozer down the road.

So with this expected socket compatibility in my mind I was on the eve of ordering a Thuban+AM3+8GB DDR3 instead of ordering Thuban+AM2+ and reusing my existing DDR2 investment.

I say almost because then I was wooed to upgrade from HDD to SSD right at the same time. And the performance boost that came with the SSD basically completely upended my desire to upgrade my CPU. Everything suddenly became "fast enough" with the same old CPU, so why upgrade?

But the experience left me with a deep understanding of exactly the thought processes that some consumers and enthusiasts were going through as I did walk in their shoes for a bit.

Had I actually bought that AM3 system back then I would be super pissed and irritated with AMD right now. But I didn't, so I'm not. However, I can still appreciate the perspective of those who did, and who are.

 

[podspi]

Had I actually bought that AM3 system back then I would be super pissed and irritated with AMD right now. But I didn't, so I'm not. However, I can still appreciate the perspective of those who did, and who are.

Two things:

1) AMD never released marketing language promising anything more than a drop-in upgrade for the server market. The rest was just rumors, and investor-slides with explicit disclaimers that the informatino was subject to change.

2) Unless you believe ASUS has performed some sort of voo-doo, or is lying, or mistaken, it seems to me that most AM3 boards are not built to full spec (not all pins are wired up). If AMD said BD was AM3 compatible, but 90% of boards sold actually weren't, people would probably complain again about false marketing (when in fact it was out of their control). Saying BD is AM3+ only (and letting board manufacturer's who can update their AM3 boards for compatibility) changes NOTHING in reality (boards that can support BD get a BIOS upgrade still) while avoiding confusion.

The outrage I am seeing over this socket change is rediculous. I have never upgraded my CPU w/out a mobo swap as well. I was hoping my AM3 machine would be the first time, but I am dissapointed,not pissed off. I always knew it was a gamble.

 

[Tanclearas]

Other: I have not purchased AM3, but I would like to purchase an AM3+ board with an AM3 processor.

What I am finding more and more frustrating, nearly by the day, is that AMD has provided quite a bit of information about Bulldozer, but very little of it is actually useful to someone wondering about making an AMD purchase right now, or even in the near future.

The last few weeks have been particularly annoying. AM3+ is physically different from AM3, but will accept AM3 processors. If AM3+ will work with AM3 processors, why don't we have AM3+ boards? Why are some (big) companies now claiming that they have AM3 boards that will work with BD? Why are we seeing boards based on 890FX with AM3+ being announced? Where is 990FX? Will there be disadvantages to using 890FX vs 990FX? If so, how bad will it be? AMD was clear "no BD for AM3", but is AM3+ on 890FX something that AMD will support, or is this something that the motherboard manufacturers are doing without AMD's blessing?

What is crazy about all this is that we have seen (high level) descriptions of what Bulldozer is. We know more about the CPU itself than the platform it's going into, even though the platform is backward (or downward) compatible.

I am ready to make my first major upgrade in nearly four years. Without any answers coming from AMD to some very simple questions, I'll likely end up going with Intel (again).

 

[bryanW1995]

I was not aware that BD would not be backward compatible till you posted this.

Its a shame that your system was only two months old when your hopes of upgrading to BD were crushed. I clearly remember the feeling when I was going to upgrade to a pentiumD in my prescott/915g based system. Same socket, but no support.



This is the earliest article I could find referencing the bulldozer not being compatible in am3 boards. http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2368185,00.asp

oh and this one from planet 3dnow has a good explanation of the reasoning behind it.
http://www.planet3dnow.de/cgi-bin/newspub/viewnews.cgi?id=1282840508

"When we initially set out on the path to bulldozers we were hoping for AM3 compatibility, but further along the process we realized that we had to make a choice based on some of the features that we wanted to bring with bulldozers. We could either Provide AM3 support and lose some of the capabilities of the new architecture or bulldozers, we could choose the AM3 socket + Which would allow the bulldozer base Zambezi to have greater performance and capability.

"The majority of the computer buying public will not upgrade their processors, but enthusiasts do. The majority of the computer-buying public will not upgrade their processors, but enthusiasts Thurs When we did the analysis it was clear that the customers who were most likely to upgrade an AM3 motherboard to a Bulldozer would want the features and capability that would only be delivered in the new AM3+ sockets. When did the analysis it was clear that the customers who were most likely to upgrade to AM3 motherboard to a bulldozer we would want the features and capability that would only be delivered in the new AM3 + sockets. A classic Catch-22. A classic Catch-22."

At least AMD gave a straight answer. Intel, rather than give us a straght answer for a gulftown->westmere upgrade, just priced it so high that it was a non-starter. And now a 2600k on 4 cores ~ i7 970 on 6 cores, so it's not worth the money even after the price was dropped to $600.

 

[bryanW1995]

lol @ ultimatum, AMD is not your girlfriend .

actually, wouldn't AMD be the boyfriend in this relationship?

 

[Skurge]

Other: I have not purchased AM3, but I would like to purchase an AM3+ board with an AM3 processor.

What I am finding more and more frustrating, nearly by the day, is that AMD has provided quite a bit of information about Bulldozer, but very little of it is actually useful to someone wondering about making an AMD purchase right now, or even in the near future.

The last few weeks have been particularly annoying. AM3+ is physically different from AM3, but will accept AM3 processors. If AM3+ will work with AM3 processors, why don't we have AM3+ boards? Why are some (big) companies now claiming that they have AM3 boards that will work with BD? Why are we seeing boards based on 890FX with AM3+ being announced? Where is 990FX? Will there be disadvantages to using 890FX vs 990FX? If so, how bad will it be? AMD was clear "no BD for AM3", but is AM3+ on 890FX something that AMD will support, or is this something that the motherboard manufacturers are doing without AMD's blessing?

What is crazy about all this is that we have seen (high level) descriptions of what Bulldozer is. We know more about the CPU itself than the platform it's going into, even though the platform is backward (or downward) compatible.

I am ready to make my first major upgrade in nearly four years. Without any answers coming from AMD to some very simple questions, I'll likely end up going with Intel (again).

The socket and the chipset arent the same thing. If the socket is AM3+ then the chipset can be whatever the mobo manufacturers want it to be.

Just like an intel 965 chipset is socket 775, but it wont work with 45nm Core2s. Same thing with AM3+. AMD never said that bulldoer won't work with 890fx, they said it wouldnt work with socket AM3 and that is still true. Those motherboard Gigabyte, MSI and ASUS are selling are AM3+ 890FX mobos. So I don't know what you are frustrated about. If the mobo is AM3+ it will work with bulldozer.... Or at least it should.

 

[Tanclearas]

The socket and the chipset arent the same thing. If the socket is AM3+ then the chipset can be whatever the mobo manufacturers want it to be.

Just like an intel 965 chipset is socket 775, but it wont work with 45nm Core2s. Same thing with AM3+. AMD never said that bulldoer won't work with 890fx, they said it wouldnt work with socket AM3 and that is still true. Those motherboard Gigabyte, MSI and ASUS are selling are AM3+ 890FX mobos. So I don't know what you are frustrated about. If the mobo is AM3+ it will work with bulldozer.... Or at least it should.

Clearly the socket and chipset are two different things. However, let's look at another example, quite similar to the one you provided. 680i SLI was for socket 775, and worked with both Conroe and Penryn. It would not however work with quad core Penryn. It would only work with dual core Penryn. Just because 890FX is being combined with AM3+, that absolutely does not guarantee that it will support ALL features of BD. You are absolutely correct that "AMD never said that bulldozer won't work with 890FX". It is equally true that they did not say it would.

I posted some speculation on another forum that I will repeat here.

I thought I would update on my own, to the best of my ability, and offer some speculation.

I have seen some comments that the 990FX is simply a rebadged 890FX. That may be true, but I have found a decent chart that shows comparisons of the various chipsets.

http://www.nordichardware.com/news/...-amd-preparing-9-series-chipsets-for-am3.html

Let's start with the southbridge, in particular comparing SB850 to SB950. The only difference in the chart is the number of PCIe Gen 2 lanes coming off of the south bridge. The SB950 shows 4 lanes where the SB850 shows 2 lanes. It is highly unlikely that this will impact anyone considering the number of PCIe Gen 2 lanes offered up by the northbridges. All other features are identical.

As for the northbridge comparison (once again focusing on the high-end 890FX and 990FX), they offer identical features in the chart. Both have 42 PCIe Gen 2 lanes in identical configurations. The PCIe graphics lanes can be either 2 x 16 or 4 x 8, and the PCIe GPP lanes are 6 x 1 and 1 x 4 (this is why the 2 extra lanes on SB950 aren't that big of a deal). There is only one column that is different, and that is the TDP. For some reason, the 990FX is 19.6W where the 890FX is 18W.

So, feature-wise, it is unlikely that 990FX is going to offer anything that can't already be offered in 890FX. Note however that there could be some unannounced feature within bulldozer that is only supported by 990FX. Sadly, AMD is being so closed-lip about this that it's virtually impossible to know if that is the case.

 

[Phynaz]

1) AMD never released marketing language promising anything more than a drop-in upgrade for the server market. The rest was just rumors, and investor-slides with explicit disclaimers that the informatino was subject to change.

Did you not read the links I provided earlier? The documents are still on AMD's website.

 

[Skurge]

Clearly the socket and chipset are two different things. However, let's look at another example, quite similar to the one you provided. 680i SLI was for socket 775, and worked with both Conroe and Penryn. It would not however work with quad core Penryn. It would only work with dual core Penryn. Just because 890FX is being combined with AM3+, that absolutely does not guarantee that it will support ALL features of BD. You are absolutely correct that "AMD never said that bulldozer won't work with 890FX". It is equally true that they did not say it would.

I posted some speculation on another forum that I will repeat here.

I see your point, 890FX could work with only certain BD CPUs or only have certain features enabled.

Ok now I see where your frustration comes from.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Nope. I upgraded my non-main systems (fileserver, HTPC, office, etc.) to AM3s from 65nm/P965 C2D setups because of crazy-cheap X3 740 BE w/motherboard combos during Black Friday on newEgg.

All unlocked and clocked up to an average of 3.7GHz (3.6 - 3.8).

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

...BUT I was willing to eat the cost of going AM3 and buying DDR3 ram, tossing out my DDR2 ram...

Honestly, you would have probably profited from selling off the Q6600 and all the DDR2, especially with the large disparity in RAM prices now (~$12/GB used for DDR2 vs. as low as ~$5/GB new for DDR3).

 

[Gigantopithecus]

Did you not read the links I provided earlier? The documents are still on AMD's website.

Yes, they're still there, complete with the typical Financial Analyst's cautionary statement. But considering you seem to think that "may" is synonymous with "will," I guess you read "Investors are cautioned that all forward-looking statements in this release involve risks and uncertainty that could cause actual results to differ materially from current expectations" as "everything in this press release is 100% accurate because AMD has a crystal ball that allows it to predict the development of its products!"