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Question for fellow AT gun nuts

M

Mookow

Lifer
Next year I'm living in a house with 4 other guys in the student area off campus. I'm planning on bringing my grandfather's old Mossberg 12 gauge pump with me. The last party I was at, there were 2 knives and one screwdriver (I kid you not) pulled out and used to threaten people. They were all pulled on the guys who lived in the house (the story on why this happened is pretty screwed up, so I wont get into it). I had already been planning to bring the Mossberg down, and this has reaffirmed my conviction in that regard. I am currently planning on getting my uncle to hand-load me about 10 shells with salt rock as a non-lethal round. The barrel on this shotgun is pretty short (19 inches, so its short but legal), so I should get decent dispersion at close range. I'm planning to load the gun with the first 3 rounds (technically, the last 3 inserted into the magazine, but you know what I mean... the first three to be fired) being salt rock, and the last 3 as buckshot. However, I am also thinking about not calling in that favor from my uncle and seeing if I can get some commercially available non-lethal shotgun rounds.
The way I see it, the appearance of a shotgun will get most people to settle down. I know how to handle a gun, and I know when to use a gun. However, for that one person in 20 who really believes his drunken butt has a chance against the gun holding a 12 gauge on him (I think the guy who pulled out the screwdriver at the party would fall into this category), I want another option than blowing a big chunk out of him. From what I have been told, salt rock does a good job. But, I would prefer something that: a) doesnt use a favor from my uncle, and b) I can buy a few boxes of and familirize myself with the shot pattern at various ranges. So, does anyone have some reccomendations?

A few asides about my post:
-if you're a pro-gun control nut, my definition of the only effictive form of gun control is hitting what you aim at. In other words, dont please dont crap in my thread.
-I'm not planning on pulling this thing out to impress chicks or break up a fight between two people. I'm only planning on pulling it out if other people pull out a weapon, or a fight is getting out of control (either non-trivial property damage is occuring, or one guy is being beaten excessively after he has ceased attempting to fight).
 
Grab some of the non-lethal beanbag rounds from a large gun shop or swapmeet. Either that, or the soft rubber loads that the cops use in riot situations. They're both effective, but do NOT go for the head shot... it's lethal no matter what the round is loaded with.

HTH

😀

Try Here

Or another "scare" alternative...

Here
 
Just wait until someone pulls a pistol or other gun on you when all you are firing is non-lethal rounds. It happened not too long ago at a party I was at. Just a bunch of drunk people screwing around and then all of a sudden a gun was pulled.
 
And I'm thinking anytime you point a gun at someone and don't kill him, your gonna get sued. If you do kill him, their family's gonna sue you. So, remember that before anyone gets shot.
 
I would suggest having these parties at somebody else's house. Otherwise you could get a reloader and load your own rocksalt rounds. Lee Precision used to sell one for under $50 for shotshell. I bought one for Daddy for christmas years ago.

If you are interested in non-lethal defense, don't pull out the 12 Ga. There are some pretty nifty items out there.

There is Pepper Spray (very effective indoors). Also, a bit on the different side, Daddy got me something called a Sjambok when I went off to college. It's kind of like a cane, but springier. Can't say if it's effective or not, it stood in a corner of my dorm room for years.

Get something other than a shotgun if you want non-lethal defense. Even with Rock Salt, you will be in big heap trouble.

Sarah <== Daddy taught me how to take care of myself
 
I'm sorry but the fact that you are asking this question shows that you do not have enough experience in life let alone with firearms to ever pull a gun out in the situation you speak of. Nothing...I repeat NOTHING good can ever come form someone brandishing a firearm in a large ceowd of people. Someone with a knife or a screwdriver is no match for a crowd. Either leave the shotgun at home or lock it away during a party but please don't try to play Rambo because the outcome will most likely be tragic in one way or another.
 


<< Just wait until someone pulls a pistol or other gun on you when all you are firing is non-lethal rounds. It happened not too long ago at a party I was at. Just a bunch of drunk people screwing around and then all of a sudden a gun was pulled. >>



Well, from what I have been told, salt rock penentrates through clothes and lodges just inside the skin when used at close range. Do you think you, no matter how drunk, could aim and effectively use a pistol with a chunk of salt rock lodged in your testicles? Besides, at the very least the 3 salt rock rounds should keep them occupied till the buckshot rounds get loaded.



<< And I'm thinking anytime you point a gun at someone and don't kill him, your gonna get sued. If you do kill him, their family's gonna sue you. So, remember that before anyone gets shot >>



And if someone gets killed on my property because he got beaten to death, I'd be sued as well. I doubt someone is going to go in front of the judge and say "there I was, innocently pulling a knife out to give the guy a shave b/c he appeared to miss a spot while he had been shaving earlier, and this SOB shoots me with salt rock".

Smaulz, thanks for the links. I am concerned with this part on the bean bag info page "Operational Range: 30-100 feet". A thirty foot minimum is too long for the house I'll be living in. Oh, and dont worry about me going for the head shot... I know at close range, even the wad can be fatal. I'm probably going to try and keep my aim point somewhere around the belly-button. If the guy is really pissing me off or doesnt stop after the first round stop, I'll drop my aim point to a few inches under the belt buckle 😉😀
 
Dude just get a taser...a LOT less dangerous and if you do end up going to court or something, they will see u just used it to break up a fight. Any time you bust out a shottie = big no no with ANY jury or judge..
 
OK, John Wayne. Take some advice. You aint the police and you have no right to be the self appointed protector of your group with your Uncles gift of that 12 guage. Loading it with 3 shells of rock salt loads and 3 of buck shot still makes you a pre mediatated carrier of a loaded tool expressly used for maming or killing. You would be in a world of hurt for brandishing it,using it and, heaven forbid that you would hurt or kill someone with it. The fact you are in this forum freaquented with juviniles even asking for advice just screams at the level of maturity you exhibit,and bucko, you aren't mature enoughto handle a situation with a weapon. You will get hurt either by hesitation andsomeone using it on you, or by the law should you survive.

give up this stupid notion and leave that shotgun alone.😱
 


<< Someone with a knife or a screwdriver is no match for a crowd. >>



True. But, thats only true over a longer period than they need to do a lot of damage. You can do a lot of damage with a 3" lockblade, never mind a bigger knife. And using a 8" flathead screwdriver (which is what the guy had) as a stabbing weapon can puncture a lot of things you want intact. Now, the 12 gauge will not stop them if they pull it out and use it immediately. However, if they take the time to bluster like the douche-bag who pulled the screwdriver did, the 12 gauge can make him think twice and/or put him out of the fight without seriously injuring him.

BTW, the guy who pulled the screwdriver was outnumbered 9:3 in the back yard. One of the other two people on his side was a very small woman. However, 5 of the 9 were on the back porch, and he either didnt notice or didnt care about those 5 guys. I was one of the 5 guys on the porch, and there was a fifth bottle of bourbon right in front of me if I wanted to use that as a weapon. I have no problems wading into a fight, and I can hold my own in a fight. I even like to have a good sparring match now and then, however, I dont like putting my friends at risk. Had I gone down there, it would have probably started the fight before I could get there, and my friend Larry would likely have a couple of puntures to chest. You want to recommend that?

Oh, BTW, Smaulz, I saw the rubber buckshot rounds on that first link. Those are better, minimum range is listed as 15'.
 
Get an airsoft gun, upgrade the hell out of it, and use metal BBs. 😀

If it doesn't scare the shizzle out of them, plug them from about 3 feet away a few times on the inner side of their leg.

Ouuch. 😉
 


<< Well, from what I have been told, salt rock penentrates through clothes and lodges just inside the skin when used at close range. Do you think you, no matter how drunk, could aim and effectively use a pistol with a chunk of salt rock lodged in your testicles? Besides, at the very least the 3 salt rock rounds should keep them occupied till the buckshot rounds get loaded.
 >>


Ok so maybe the drunk doesnt hit you, but the chances are good he hits someone. And to think he can simply plead "Self Defense." Well that is if you pulled the shotgun first.
 


<< Ok so maybe the drunk doesnt hit you, but the chances are good he hits someone. And to think he can simply plead "Self Defense." Well that is if you pulled the shotgun first. >>



I have no intention of pulling first, though. BTW, the tazer sounds good. How much for a decent one?
 


<< Get an airsoft gun, upgrade the hell out of it, and use metal BBs. 😀

If it doesn't scare the shizzle out of them, plug them from about 3 feet away a few times on the inner side of their leg.

Ouuch. 😉 >>



I had actually considered that, but a upgraded Airsoft gun is $300+, and I'm in college...
 


<<

<< Get an airsoft gun, upgrade the hell out of it, and use metal BBs. 😀

If it doesn't scare the shizzle out of them, plug them from about 3 feet away a few times on the inner side of their leg.

Ouuch. 😉 >>



I had actually considered that, but a upgraded Airsoft gun is $300+, and I'm in college... >>


A gas powered pistol will cost you about 150. Those things will HURT!

Only the electric blowback full-sized automatics will cost you like 300 bucks.

Or, you could get electric powered plastic pistols for like 50 bucks each. They are about 250-300fps and will pump a load full of bullets real quick.
 


<<

<< Ok so maybe the drunk doesnt hit you, but the chances are good he hits someone. And to think he can simply plead "Self Defense." Well that is if you pulled the shotgun first. >>



I have no intention of pulling first, though. BTW, the tazer sounds good. How much for a decent one? >>


My point being: what if you pull it out to break up a fight and someone feels threathened (not directly involved in the fight) and decides to pull on you.
 


<< OK, John Wayne. Take some advice. You aint the police and you have no right to be the self appointed protector of your group with your Uncles gift of that 12 guage. >>



Really? The police are now responsible for my personal protection? Last I heard, that notion was rejected quite a while ago by the Supreme Court.



<< Loading it with 3 shells of rock salt loads and 3 of buck shot still makes you a pre mediatated carrier of a loaded tool expressly used for maming or killing. You would be in a world of hurt for brandishing it,using it and, heaven forbid that you would hurt or kill someone with it. >>



The salt rock isnt there for "maiming and killing". Its supposed to be non-lethal. The only way I think it could maim or kill is taking a head shot. My uncle said he got hit at range and it hurt like a btch, but it didnt scar or have long term side effect. If I just have it for home defense (which is mainly what the buckshot is there for), I'm also a "premeditated carrier of a tool expressly used for maiming and killing"? In Ohio, if you can prove had a reasonable reason that you thought they were planning to harm your person, you're in the clear. There have been several break-ins around campus over the last few years where the occupants of the house have been killed. Hell, one of my better friends is living in a house where that exact thing happened 3 years ago.



<< The fact you are in this forum freaquented with juviniles even asking for advice just screams at the level of maturity you exhibit,and bucko, you aren't mature enoughto handle a situation with a weapon. You will get hurt either by hesitation andsomeone using it on you, or by the law should you survive. >>



So, any question of a serious nature in ATOT means that the person asking it is immature? You think I'm automatically going to take every bit of offered advice in this thread as gospel handed down from on high? I'll take the advice of Russ, ShotgunSteve, and BrunoPutzJones (amongst others) over the advice of random people on this forum, many of whom I realize have never seen a gun in person other than on a police officer's belt. As for hesitation, I've been boar hunting, and got charged. I didnt hesitate, and as a result, I ate some pork chops rather than getting swiped with tusks. The fact that I can shoot and not maim/kill with the ammunition I am looking into getting will most likely quash any hestitation. I say most likely, because it is true you cant absolutely predict your reactions to every scenario ahead of time, and, indeed, you reaction might be different on different occasions. However, I am confident that I wont hesitate, based on my past experiences.
 
dude dude dude

you better sit back and rethink your stance on this, do not take that weapon. shooting people with ANYTHING will land you in jail. If you shoot anybody with salt rock the DA will have a field day with you. a bit of advice, before you ruin the rest of your life because of a stupid fight at a stupid party i suggest you stop throwing them and stop going. its just not worth it.

After reading this, you are a felony in waiting. It is clear that you are a moron and have no business with a firearm.

As for hesitation, I've been boar hunting, and got charged. I didnt hesitate, and as a result, I ate some pork chops rather than getting swiped with tusks. The fact that I can shoot and not maim/kill with the ammunition I am looking into getting will most likely quash any hestitation. I say most likely, because it is true you cant absolutely predict your reactions to every scenario ahead of time, and, indeed, you reaction might be different on different occasions. However, I am confident that I wont hesitate, based on my past experiences.
 


<< dude dude dude

you better sit back and rethink your stance on this, do not take that weapon. shooting people with ANYTHING will land you in jail. If you shoot anybody with salt rock the DA will have a field day with you. a bit of advice, before you ruin the rest of your life because of a stupid fight at a stupid party i suggest you stop throwing them and stop going. its just not worth it. >>



I am thinking about not using it with the salt rock, however I'll almost certainly be bring it anyway (along with my 22 rifle) for hunting. To repeat my other question: Does anybody know how much a decent tazer is?
 
While I see nothing wrong with having protection available, it would seem to me the wise decision would be to avoid the situation in the first place.

If you do it, though, make sure you use nothing but non-lethal ammo. The rubber buckshot sounds intriguing, rock salt has the disadvantage of penetrating. If you have parties that would require you to have real buckshot loaded as well... You have more to worry about than finding non-lethal ammo. I can't really see someone having much fight left in them after being hit repeatedly with rubber buckshot, no need to back it up with lethal ammo.

Tasers are actually surprisingly cheap for the ones that require contact, the obvious disadvantage is that they require you to be in close. The wire & fluid based are significantly more.

Viper GTS
 


<< Does anybody know how much a decent tazer is? >>


I haven't looked into it much, but I found this after a bit of searching with Google.
 


<< While I see nothing wrong with having protection available, it would seem to me the wise decision would be to avoid the situation in the first place.

If you do it, though, make sure you use nothing but non-lethal ammo. The rubber buckshot sounds intriguing, rock salt has the disadvantage of penetrating. If you have parties that would require you to have real buckshot loaded as well... You have more to worry about than finding non-lethal ammo. I can't really see someone having much fight left in them after being hit repeatedly with rubber buckshot, no need to back it up with lethal ammo.

Tasers are actually surprisingly cheap for the ones that require contact, the obvious disadvantage is that they require you to be in close. The wire & fluid based are significantly more.

Viper GTS >>



Rock salt doesnt, from what I've heard, penetrate more than .25-.5 inches unless it hits really soft tissue (basically, eyes and other things that soft). I do, however, want independant confirmation of what I have heard about it before using it. The real buckshot isnt for a party getting out of control, its more for actual home defense, ie a break-in. In regards to avoiding the situation, niether I nor my housemates are planning to hold parties with more than 2 kegs involved. However, I go to a BIG school, and there are always some random dumbasses crashing parties they arent invited to. I'm going to be on the quieter part of off campus, but its also close to the house that the knives got pulled at. That was a fairly small (35 people, tops) party, involving 2 kegs (keg race). The house is not known for throwing parties where fights break out. Basically, it proved the theory "sht happens". My problem with tazers is that the units I could afford arent ranged weapons. The bottle of bourbon I had at the party, IMO, had his screwdriver beaten, but I couldnt use it without starting what I wanted to avoid. I havent ruled them out, though.
 
I just have to say what some others have said: Be freaking careful, man. If someone is insane enough to pull out a screwdriver at a party, then they're insane enough to pull out a handgun too. What if you bring out your shotgun and they pull a handgun and take a hostage? Then you're so fvcked that it's unbelievable.

Escalating things is the surest way to really fvck things up. If someone pulls out a blade or comparable hand weapon, pull out a blade as well. Make sure your roommates have them too. Hell, baseball bats, golf clubs, swords, sjamboks -- whatever. Hand weapons. Not firearms. Keep the gun on hand, definitely. Keep it ready to go. When you confront someone with a knife, make sure that someone's backing you up with the gun at the ready, just in case. But don't bring it out at the first sign of trouble. *** Suddenly pulling a gun on somebody who's already somwhat insane will probably push them to further insanity. If they have a gun on them too, then there's no way that things can end without tragedy.

*** UNLESS, that is, you want to sneak up somehow and shoot them before they know you're there or before they can see the gun. That doesn't sound like such a good policy either. You don't want to start blowing away at a person before you've tried negotiating with them. Plus, there may be bystanders who could be hit by the blast as well. Not a good option. Of course, if things get out of hand, you shoot and don't worry about the bystanders, but as a first option.... you don't want to shoot first. Not with a high-dispersion shotgun like you said you have.

A way to keep trash out of your parties is to ask for Student ID to get in. I know it's rough, but I go to school in a very rough neighborhood, and that's what every frat and semi-large private party here does. Not that they really ask for ID if you're obviously a student, but if they have a sign on the door stating the policy, then they can easily keep out the troublemakers.

And if you don't control the entrance to your parties.... you're just asking for trouble.
 
The one other thing you need to find out is the laws where you are at. I know when I was in CA the only way you could do something like you are speaking about is if you or you familys life is thereatned, where now I am in Vermont the laws are quite different, to include life and property. I agree that it is a good idea to have a shotgun in the area, but if the parties are bringing this kind of people then the easiest thing you could do is limit who you let in your parties. When I was in the Marine Corps we had some people bring over idiots, but the simple was is just kick them out early before they get drunk and stupid.
 
If you cant control the people coming to your parties and what weapons they are bringing, then you shouldnt be having parties.

Bad idea IMO.
 
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